active KSAN performance issues at night

[boogie]

Hi, I installed the new version of KSAN and have to say that the performance at night is really bad.
With relatively low graphics setting (my usual FSLabs settings) UT Live at 30% and AS I get around 7 fps...with the default Baron B58!!!

Even with DL turned off in the KSAN control panel, AS turned off and no traffic I get a maximum of 13 fps in the Baron.

Apart from that the lighting looks really weird (see pic).

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Regards,

Klaus

[Senchay]

I can confirm that....

I usually dont do this, i think its my first time i ever talk "bad" about an airport ever.

What happened on this airport is beyond me. I understand it was a free update but it was announced as a full new product.

From the over 100 payware airports ive got this is the second worst one in terms of fps. And it doesnt even look very special. Opposite, it really starts to look old. Usually this is fixed by an overhaul but it still has nothing to do with other ORBX products and other devs on the current market. Where on nearly every other airport my fps are over 30 it goes to the 10s on this one. when dyn light is on. Now, if it was one year ago one yould say its a LM dyn light problem. but by now all other devs can manage it very very well, theres no problems anymore.


Please, do a real overhaul because its absolutely unflyable with an airliner here in the nighttime.  






Now the same on another airport





And ive chosen extra airports that have around the same size and setting. Like KSAN this one has a payware city next to it and this one here too (Moscow City, DDesign).

I could make screen of (insert random airport) here and it would show the very same. Even Aerosoft EDDF middle inside Germany South gives me over 40 fps.

And KSAN gives me 10. fps when engines and ActiveSky is on. 10 fps... And it still looks like the old one. 


PS: nope, we dont want to hear from ppl "oh but i have 40 fps there!!!" because it doesnt matter :-) Its what we have, not what you guys have. Its the problem that for us its among the worst of flyable airports, compare to the rest on OUR system.

[Stewart Hobson]

That seems a little unfair:  You have your frame rate set to unlimited in the last two screenshots, but have limited frame rates to 31 in the first two.  How come?

 

Have you made any attempt to dial back your settings when you fly at night at KSAN?  Especially those settings that don't matter if they're at minimums at night, like cloud draw distance, for example.  Or even the setting for LOD radius?  Who cares if you can't see out to the horizon at night?  You can't see it anyway. High anti-aliasing settings will kill your frame rate as well.   If you intend to use the same settings that you use in the daylight for nighttime flying, you'll be disappointed.  That's been my experience at any rate.

[Nick Cooper]

16 hours ago, boogie said:

Hi, I installed the new version of KSAN and have to say that the performance at night is really bad.
With relatively low graphics setting (my usual FSLabs settings) UT Live at 30% and AS I get around 7 fps...with the default Baron B58!!!

Even with DL turned off in the KSAN control panel, AS turned off and no traffic I get a maximum of 13 fps in the Baron.

Apart from that the lighting looks really weird (see pic).

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Regards,

Klaus

 

 

Hello Klaus,

welcome to the forums.

In my experience, the dynamic lighting causes problems using anti-aliasing settings at and above 2 x SSAA.

For me, the ideal setting, if I ever flew at night, would be 8 x MSAA at which the dynamic lighting

looks as intended but performance is not affected.

It has been like this since P3D v4.0 and still does exactly the same in the current 4.3 version.

You haven't provided your PC specification but 8 x MSAA should help.

 

 

[boogie]

Hello Nick,

thank you for your reply but I use MSAA anyway. I have 150 airports and even at the worst I get at least 20 fps at the gate using the FSL A320 with these settings.

So it was a bit of a shock to have 7 with a default aircraft.
I did a test flight to KSAN at night with the A320 and it was ok, I had 25 fps at the gate but that was because of the LM bug that you don't have dynamic lighting on arrival.
Then I quit P3D and reloaded the same plane at the same gate and had 4.5 fps (DL was on then)

I can post some screens later to show you.

 

Regards, Klaus

[Nick Cooper]

With 8 x MSAA, I am seeing my locked 24 fps at the same place.

With 8 x SSAA, I see 4 fps.

[Matteo Veneziani]

I dont have any fps problem in ksan.

 

Proably you should to revise your setting. Also looks like something is not installed properly. Uninstall and reinstall it, please.

[boogie]

6 minutes ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

I dont have any fps problem in ksan.

 

Proably you should to revise your setting. Also looks like something is not installed properly. Uninstall and reinstall it, please.

I'm just preparing some screens incl settings. I agree that it looks like something is not installed properly, I have already reinstalled it but I will do a second time.

 

Regards, Klaus

[boogie]

So...here are some screens of my settings, not very high I would think..my specs i7 4790K, GTX 1080, 32 GB RAM

[boogie]

Here two screens to show you the difference between a freshly loaded sim and after arrival from KPHX. FPS are a little bit higher because of outside view. But you can see on the second screen that there is no dynamic lighting.

[Matteo Veneziani]

It's very strange, i have pc older than you and i don't have this difference in fps betwenn DL active and DL don't active. Also why you are using 1mt resolution for ground textures and mesh to 19mt? turn textures resolution to max and mesh to 5mt. 

 

Before re-install KSAN, uninstall completely KSAN. 

 

Also post a screen of your KSAN/SCENERY FOLDER, so i will be able to see if you have some duplicate or wrong files.

 

 

 

 

 

[boogie]

I did a second reinstall...nothing changed, it's so slow that even the cursor in the menu reacts delayed

[boogie]

20 minutes ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

It's very strange, i have pc older than you and i don't have this difference in fps betwenn DL active and DL don't active. Also why you are using 1mt resolution for ground textures and mesh to 19mt? turn textures resolution to max and mesh to 5mt. 

 

Before re-install KSAN, uninstall completely KSAN. 

 

Also post a screen of your KSAN/SCENERY FOLDER, so i will be able to see if you have some duplicate or wrong files.

I deinstalled it first, closed FTX-Central, checked that the KSAN folder was gone and then installed it again.
I tried your recommended settings, didn't change for better.

The difference between DL active or not is smaller for me if I set it in your control panel but the difference I showed you is just from DL while arriving, I didn't turn it off manually.

[Matteo Veneziani]

I don't know. Looks ok for me, but your fps are low and it's not normal. All customers has reported great fps during the day and night and it is also for me and for testers. With your pc setting you should have higher fps. Do you have maybe some preset or tomatoshade installed?

[boogie]

14 minutes ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

I don't know. Looks ok for me, but your fps are low and it's not normal. All customers has reported great fps during the day and night and it is also for me and for testers. With your pc setting you should have higher fps. Do you have maybe some preset or tomatoshade installed?

 

On daytime my fps are great it's just at night, I have PTA installed but no tomatoshade.

 

Edit: I just restored original shaders...no change

[Matteo Veneziani]

I think it's also due to the strange resolution you are using, 5k of width it's very wide.

You could try to lower the resolution and i can suggest to don't use DL if you have  so low fps, but i'm not able to help you more than this, sorry.

[boogie]

The resolution is because I use a triple screen setup.

It has definitely to do with DL, if I disable it in your control panel I gain 5-10 fps if I disable it in P3D I gain another 40 fps with default aircraft.

Thanks for your help.

 

Regards, Klaus

[Stewart Hobson]

No expert here, but isn't the triple screen setup the source of the problem ultimately?  Other simmers who have a triple screen setup seem to prefer the 1080 ti.  Not saying you should upgrade to the 1080ti, but it's asking a lot of that 1080 to power 3 monitors, especially with DL turned on.

[boogie]

10 minutes ago, Stewart Hobson said:

No expert here, but isn't the triple screen setup the source of the problem ultimately?  Other simmers who have a triple screen setup seem to prefer the 1080 ti.  Not saying you should upgrade to the 1080ti, but it's asking a lot of that 1080 to power 3 monitors, especially with DL turned on.

 

It makes it more difficult of course but as I have no problems with my settings even in UK2000 EGLL or AS EDDF it should be alright!

[Senchay]

15 hours ago, Stewart Hobson said:

That seems a little unfair:  You have your frame rate set to unlimited in the last two screenshots, but have limited frame rates to 31 in the first two.  How come?

 

Have you made any attempt to dial back your settings when you fly at night at KSAN?  Especially those settings that don't matter if they're at minimums at night, like cloud draw distance, for example.  Or even the setting for LOD radius?  Who cares if you can't see out to the horizon at night?  You can't see it anyway. High anti-aliasing settings will kill your frame rate as well.   If you intend to use the same settings that you use in the daylight for nighttime flying, you'll be disappointed.  That's been my experience at any rate.

 

 I knew this one was coming and your right, usually this can have influence. Not here though. The reason was just that i had some of those pics lying around so i took that. Unlimited does very little, maybe 1-3 fps here. And if i put it on locked fps somewhere else its, well,  locked at 31 fps... 

 

Ppl who know me know that im always, really always on the sides of the devs and hate it when ppl rant about something without reason. Or without looking twice or compare the right way. Thats why i write my posts like i do, even it may sound like bragging or overreacting. If i dont have to change my settings on any other of the mentioned amount of airports, be it at EHAM inside True Earth, inside Germany Souths harder airports like EDDM, EDDF, or if we take the US, KSFO, KLAX, NY, KBOS, whatever, then there shouldnt be a reason to do it here, right? And how far? To reach my usual fps i would have to dramatically lower the settings. What probably means i will arrive at something that will look like its out of the year 2000. Sorry, this is not on our end....Everything you said is the things i usually tell others.

 

In this case there is a problem and sometimes it doest hurt (even for a dev) to admit there could be something better and try to improve things. I know its not easy, one spends so much time with it and normally with good intentiones too so if someone like me comes it may build some tension. Im a dev myself.... not in flightsim but anyway, probably not far from the same situation.

Btw, JustSim had to learn this too and now they do really nice airports. WITH dyn light very performant. It can be. But it needs the willing to do so and the insight that it can be..

[Stewart Hobson]

5 minutes ago, Senchay said:

 

 I knew this one was coming and your right, usually this can have influence. Not here though. The reason was just that i had some of those pics lying around so i took that. Unlimited does very little, maybe 1-3 fps here. And if i put it on locked fps somewhere else its, well,  locked at 31 fps... 

 

Ppl who know me know that im always, really always on the sides of the devs and hate it when ppl rant about something without reason. Or without looking twice or compare the right way. Thats why i write my posts like i do, even it may sound like bragging or overreacting. If i dont have to change my settings on any other of the mentioned amount of airports, be it at EHAM inside True Earth, inside Germany Souths harder airports like EDDM, EDDF, or if we take the US, KSFO, KLAX, NY, KBOS, whatever, then there shouldnt be a reason to do it here, right? And how far? To reach my usual fps i would have to dramatically lower the settings. What probably means i will arrive at something that will look like its out of the year 2000. Sorry, this is not on our end....Everything you said is the things i usually tell others.

 

In this case there is a problem and sometimes it doest hurt (even for a dev) to admit there could be something better and try to improve things.I know its not easy, im a dev myself.... not in flightsim but anyway, probably not far from the same situation.
 

Fair enough.  I hope you find a solution to this issue, as you seem to know what you are doing around flight sims.

Cheers!

[ironcondor]

6 hours ago, boogie said:

 

It makes it more difficult of course but as I have no problems with my settings even in UK2000 EGLL or AS EDDF it should be alright!

 

Hi Boogie,

 

Hope I can help with my experiment. I will provide my input as I had the same issue you have since the update to KSANV2.  I personally don't care about FPS and only go smoothness in both P3D and XP11. I use FPS as a metric.  I noticed you had one of my favorite and most used aircraft in P3D  and that is the FSLabs A320 in your image. I was doing an early morning KSAN (Dark outside still)  to KSFO flight and I noticed my frames went from 30-37 (Day) down to 14 fps (Night). Let me also add as a side note that the performance has almost increased for me by 40% with KSANV2 during daytime operations. So thank you for that. 

 

I did two things to improve my night FPS with the A320:

 

1.) I dropped my 2X SSAA (which works great at night with all of the other airports I own)  to 4XMSAA. 

2.) Most importantly, as soon as I turned the flood lights and the dome light off in the A320 the frames jumped up back to the high 20's. Not fully back like in daylight but higher.

3.) On a final note, I can't point this to the A320 only because in the other birds like PMDG 777, 747 I get a dramatic drop in FPS at night as well. Looks like "I" have to figure out a solution with the aircraft for this airport.

4.) In the end, I may just turn off Dynamic lighting at KSANV2 unfortunately on my AMD Threadripper 16 core/32thread, 32GB of RAM, GTX1080, SSD Drive, Liquid cooled state of the art computer with LOW Prepar3d settings to make Dynamic lights work. 

 

Hope this helps you Boogie.

 

Thanks!

[boogie]

Hi Ironcondor,

 

thank you for your suggestions.

You are right, those things are the most important on the FSL A320. SSAA is unusable so I use MSAA since P3D v4 came out I think.
At the airport it's always a good idea to turn off flood light and dome light. It's a shame that we have to do it but that's the situation. Although I have to say that the fsl has improved since the last updates  there are some airports where I can leave those lights on.
Your hints weren't new to me but thank you again anyway!

 

Yesterday I did a test flight from KSAN to KMRY with DL turned off and that was ok, I had 20-22 fps at the gate.

So in the end I have to decide how to deal with it. I have some airports which have no DL at all (KLAX, KJFK) and I don't fly much in the USA.

On the other hand I could say...a new airport shouldn't have those problems (let's see if this DL off at arrival from another airport gets fixed) and I buy the LatinVFR version maybe as it's on sale. I haven't decided yet but it seems I am not the only one, yesterday Chewwy (who has normally very high fps) had 16 fps on the taxiway.

 

Cheers, Klaus