JoseCFII Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'm realy enjoying NCA, but as I was flying North East toward Livingston Airport, my fps droped from 30 to 15. It seems to be happening on the north side of Livingston. Looking South there are no issues. Maybe the team can look into this. Thanks. Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Madison Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 What was the lay line and course Jose? How far out of Livingston? How large of an area show the drop in FPS? I'm assuming this was in FSX not P3D? Usually this is caused by looking towards an area of high autogen density, as in a large urban area. Will take a look. Edit: I spent about half an hour around the area. Flew out of Merced WNW then NW towards Livingston, flew a number of racetracks, and ladder patterns covering Turlock, Castle AFB, Modesto and the general area. Flew direct line up HWY 99, Merced to Modesto, mid day and dusk with lighting. Didn't see any big drops in FPS, just a few little dips when rotating pilot POV. Realair Lancair @ 2000 ft. Maxed all of the sliders and ran only Steves DX10 FSX without Booster tweaks enabled. Did the same again in P3Dv2.1 with the same results. Give that same pattern another go in your system and plot the exact GPS where you get the glitch. Post that up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseCFII Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 What was the lay line and course Jose? How far out of Livingston? How large of an area show the drop in FPS? I'm assuming this was in FSX not P3D? Usually this is caused by looking towards an area of high autogen density, as in a large urban area. Will take a look. Edit: I spent about half an hour around the area. Flew out of Merced WNW then NW towards Livingston, flew a number of racetracks, and ladder patterns covering Turlock, Castle AFB, Modesto and the general area. Flew direct line up HWY 99, Merced to Modesto, mid day and dusk with lighting. Didn't see any big drops in FPS, just a few little dips when rotating pilot POV. Realair Lancair @ 2000 ft. Maxed all of the sliders and ran only Steves DX10 FSX without Booster tweaks enabled. Did the same again in P3Dv2.1 with the same results. Give that same pattern another go in your system and plot the exact GPS where you get the glitch. Post that up here. I think it's the windmills that are causing the drop in fps. If I could disable them, I can confirm. How do I disable the windmills just to test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Madison Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The wind farm at Livermore...was able to locate it from your Garmin. lol I produced your result with the same setup. The wind farm is causing the hit on frames, a large field of animated objects in a concentrated area. I'm not sure that those can be disabled. I tweaked autogen and special effects with no significant impact to the upside. I flew the same area in P3Dv2.1 and had better result by adjusting autogen and special effects detail and distance. FPS went up into the twenties with the GTX 780. Even at 17 FPS (lowest) it was still pretty smooth. Your card may be struggling a tad bit even with DX10 fix. If I may suggest a tour around San Francisco and give me a read on your FPS around the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hi Jose, the wind turbine placement file is named FTX_NCA_objects_windfarms_CA_PLC.BGL and located in {FSX}\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_NCA05_SCENERY\scenery. Simply rename its extension from .bgl to .OFF for your test. Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseCFII Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 The wind farm at Livermore...was able to locate it from your Garmin. lol I produced your result with the same setup. The wind farm is causing the hit on frames, a large field of animated objects in a concentrated area. I'm not sure that those can be disabled. I tweaked autogen and special effects with no significant impact to the upside. I flew the same area in P3Dv2.1 and had better result by adjusting autogen and special effects detail and distance. FPS went up into the twenties with the GTX 780. Even at 17 FPS (lowest) it was still pretty smooth. Your card may be struggling a tad bit even with DX10 fix. If I may suggest a tour around San Francisco and give me a read on your FPS around the city. In SF I get high 20's. Even on final to Flightbeam's KSFO. No problems. there. I am considering a gtx 780. Thanks! Hi Jose, the wind turbine placement file is named FTX_NCA_objects_windfarms_CA_PLC.BGL and located in {FSX}\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_NCA05_SCENERY\scenery. Simply rename its extension from .bgl to .OFF for your test. Cheers, Holger Holger. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseCFII Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hi Jose, the wind turbine placement file is named FTX_NCA_objects_windfarms_CA_PLC.BGL and located in {FSX}\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_NCA05_SCENERY\scenery. Simply rename its extension from .bgl to .OFF for your test. Cheers, Holger That fixes the performance issue. 30 pegged Oakland to Livingston. Does this mean I will have no windmills in NCA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Madison Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The GTX 780 is a big step up. You should be fine with the windmills on that card. In P3D the tessellation makes a huge difference here. I see a bump down looking at the windfarm, but still run ultra smooth. When you get the 780, take a look at Booster 2013. Between DX10 fix and the booster I get good consistent results. You'll like that card Jose. Looks like Holger got you squared away. I'll mark this one resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hi Jose, Does this mean I will have no windmills in NCA? Indeed. There are a whopping 5,581 wind turbines within the NCA coverage area, and many are located in large clusters. We already changed a random 35% to use static models (no spinning rotors) to help minimize fps loss or stutters but the sheer number of models is bound to have an impact on some systems. Looks like yours is one of them. Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseCFII Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 The GTX 780 is a big step up. You should be fine with the windmills on that card. In P3D the tessellation makes a huge difference here. I see a bump down looking at the windfarm, but still run ultra smooth. When you get the 780, take a look at Booster 2013. Between DX10 fix and the booster I get good consistent results. You'll like that card Jose. Looks like Holger got you squared away. I'll mark this one resolved. Gordon, I did some research and it seems that most who upgraded to a gtx 780 were not satisfied with their investment. I'm reading conflicting results. My gut feeling tells me that it's not worth the price. I would prefer to spend my money on ORBX airports than to throw all that money at a card that will give me 1 or 2 more fps. I also prefer to simply disable fps eating effects. Maybe the team can consider just a few turbines instead of thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfbindewald Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hi Jose, Indeed. There are a whopping 5,581 wind turbines within the NCA coverage area, and many are located in large clusters. We already changed a random 35% to use static models (no spinning rotors) to help minimize fps loss or stutters but the sheer number of models is bound to have an impact on some systems. Looks like yours is one of them. Cheers, Holger on Livermore all wind turbines are rotating (BTW they are rotating full syncronized , which is unlikely). It could help in fps a lot - if several could be changed to static models. I have seen this practical solution already on another windfarm here in NCA. - or to delete every second turbine as the pitch between each other seems to be small, so that the propellers may collide to each other Wulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Madison Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Won't argue with your logic Jose, the new products keep getting better and better. For a long time I ran photo real for Northern California and the Sierra Nevada. After flying NCA I've removed the photo real. I actually run the EVGA GTX 480 on my number two system. I design for the cutting edge tech and factor beyond that for future tech. The work station runs the 780, but I check the work on the 480 to get a cross section of performance. I observe a 30% difference with no tweaks, and much better with tweaks...45-60%. Maybe that will help you with your longer range planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hi Wulf, I'll have another look at the windfarm data for additional improvements. We only have location data meaning systematically removing every other turbine would need to be done manually, which would take forever. I'll experiment with random removals of specific percentages, which we could offer as optional replacements for users with fps difficulties. While the rotation speed is the same for all turbines they don't run synchronized in regards to the spatial positioning of their blades so I'm not sure what you mean by that. In any case, if our current highly optimized/simplified models create fps issues consider what would happen if each turbine was to operate independently; it's like placing hundreds of windsocks at a single airport... Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfbindewald Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hi Holger, I looked more carefully to the blade positioning and You are right the blades are rotating differently. Here and there some are not rotating, probably static turbines, but ok. Wulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griphos Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I was flying around Livermore and Byron today, and these windmills brought my FSX to its knees! I'm glad to know how to get rid of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelMoe Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 STOCKTON is also a fps dropper with my GTX780 SC and a 4.7 Haswell. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriLa Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I also got rid of all the Windmills! Thank you Holger! Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Pugwash Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Will also try this work around, in FSX I get good fps (25-29) in the bay area, but on approach to Livermore, it drops to 12fps, most unusual for my system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Gordon, I did some research and it seems that most who upgraded to a gtx 780 were not satisfied with their investment. I'm reading conflicting results. My gut feeling tells me that it's not worth the price. I would prefer to spend my money on ORBX airports than to throw all that money at a card that will give me 1 or 2 more fps. I also prefer to simply disable fps eating effects. Maybe the team can consider just a few turbines instead of thousands. I definitely second that motion. There is no point in having a wonderful scenery object if it's all-or-none and the all is large. One area I would love to see ORBX move towards is a configurator interface where the user can choose a density for specific classes of objects: in Vector Global, I think having the ability to install various road types is an example of this user control, or an interface where one chooses custom objects like wind turbines one can define the density--so scales well w/ different hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Madison Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Most ORBX airports come with a control panel that allow the user to turn on or off certain aspects of the scenery to tailor performance. The addition of this feature, and it's feasibility would be a topic for the team to look at for the first patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Pugwash Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yep, no wind turbines now and my FPS are great...cheers guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLighT Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Holger, what if the windmills were all static instead of rotating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi FLighT, I don't think it would make a difference other than people complaining that the windmills are static We've used the same models (all rotating) in other regions too, for example the extensive windfarms in the Columbia River Valley in NRM. I don't recall any reports regarding performance issues there so the logical conclusion is that any issues stem from the higher concentration of some of the windfarms in NCA. Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriLa Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Unfortunately there is no slider like the one for "Autogen density", where we could reduce the amount of windmills. You can have them all or no one. Cheers, Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi Fritz, actually, I can assign different display thresholds for object files like the windmills, which will then be controlled with the Scenery Complexity slider. I'll add that option for the service pack update but I know from experience that very few users are willing (or remember) to move that slider. In fact, one good reason for keeping high slider settings is that most airport jetways only get displayed at "Very Dense" or "Extremely Dense". Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennH Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hi Fritz, actually, I can assign different display thresholds for object files like the windmills, which will then be controlled with the Scenery Complexity slider. I'll add that option for the service pack update but I know from experience that very few users are willing (or remember) to move that slider. In fact, one good reason for keeping high slider settings is that most airport jetways only get displayed at "Very Dense" or "Extremely Dense". Cheers, Holger Thats intersting Holger as I keep my complexity setting at 'Very Dense' to avoid the shipyard cranes which are horrible FPS eaters. Am I losing anything else in Orbx land by doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griphos Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yeah, I'm not going to move the slider. I would prefer an option in a NCA control panel to remove them altogether. I've never noticed a problem with them in other regions, but they bring FSX to a crawl in NCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFamilyMan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I joined the orbx forum this morning in search for a solution to the windmill farm problem, and here I am. Even with a gtx 780 running at a 1189 boost clock in a 4.5Gz 4770k system, these dang farms bring my FPS down to a stuttery 20. If anything, disable the animation in a service pack and let the whiners be. After all, FSX is a flight simulation; it's not a windmill farm sim. For now I'll live without them. A hearty THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Low Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I remember seeing that massive windfarm at Altamont Pass as I made my way from San Francisco Airport to my eventual destination of Oakhurst way back in October 1995. Wind turbines everywhere! The framerate was super smooth for me though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkH Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I have to say it here: as a new NA Northern California customer, I was absolutely puzzled by the inconstant performance I had when flying over or even when standing at a parking spot with my A2A piper. Example Monterey: when turning slowly 360° around, my FPS varied from 28-30 (locked at 30) in one direction to less than 10 when looking south. The same while flying around. Looking in a specific direction, only about 10FPS, looking only some degress left or right, suddenly above 20FPS. Now I disabled the windfarms according to this thread and guess what? Constantly above 20FPS, no matter in which direction I look. Funny thing: I actually never seen the windfarms, it was already enough to look into the direction of a windfarm to lose performance, even if the windfarm was more than 50miles away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLighT Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Holger, Is this still the file to .OFF to eliminate all wind farms in NCA after the recent update? Thanks. “the wind turbine placement file is named FTX_NCA_objects_windfarms_CA_PLC.BGL and located in {FSX}\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_NA_NCA05_SCENERY\scenery. Simply rename its extension from .bgl to .OFF for your test†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Hi there, please read the document that came with NCA SP1; it explains the options regarding the windfarm files. Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLighT Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Doh! Now that you mention it I remember reading about the 3 files after installing SP1 but the words must have gone into and out of the little gray cells with equal velocities. Thanks for the reminder, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennH Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm afraid I always delete the user docs to save SSD space. Can someone fill me in on the sp1 options regarding wind farms? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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