BradB Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I have been following this thread now for several days and here is my 2 cents for what it is worth . Please read or read again the original announcement by JV - http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/52819-orbx-announces-ftx-global-to-be-released-in-2013/ I do not see any mention of DX10 prevue in his original post on FTXG . Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 The anticipation was that FTXG would not have features that DX10 could not run. The 3D lights were worked on literally up until the last minute so that they could be left on during the day, without necessitating a switch. Using the FSX graphics engine we have in new ways is why ORBX products do what they do. The limitations of DX10 have been explained again and again (and again, if that were not enough). If I sound exasperated, it is because I am somewhat. As an aside, on my airport project a couple of years ago, I had incorporated some rather cool and immensely satisfying lighting models, all native FSX SP2 developed "by the book" Unfortunately, because Microsoft didn't test DX10 with anything other than the most basic of FSX SP2 material settings, DX10 could not display them properly, and caused eyesore glitches. Rather than endure the endless complaints from users wishing to use DX10, these features were pulled off and thrown in the virtual trash can, and removed permanently from the Bundaberg scenery. So the moral there, is that you never miss what you never see, and ALL users go without what could be very cool indeed to satisfy one particular group.. Food for thought. (Sadly, now that Steve has fixed many DX10 things, they might have worked, but we will never know). Now: The problem affecting DX10 users has been identified. It is ONE problem in a very large package of scenery. A fix cannot be implemented via altering the scenery (without removing a feature that the vast majority of users enjoy) Steve Parsons has been liased with and seems to have a further DX10 fix, which should be available shortly. I think that pretty much covers it, so let's go make a cup of peppermint tea and explore some scenery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLonger Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Someone at Avsim has been posting a fix for the FTXG night lighting system to various members using private messages: it's in beta but I read from at least one person that it works. I suppose he will be posting his fix for the public sometime soon. In anyway, there WILL be a fix for this problem, that's for sure! EDIT I gave that beta a try. I think it uses the same method that Orbx used when they had a first look at how to fix this but which was too ugly in their opinion to release it as a valuable solution. Yes, you do see lights and you don't see black boxes but the light are some kind of solid stars/circles instead of the glowing dots you get in DX9 with the original files. It's better than nothing but it's not THE solution you all want, I think: it's more of a temporary workaround. I haven't tested performance btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Goff Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 The fix floating around, as described, sounds like the texture for the light has been switched from a DXT5 DDS to DXT1, as JV described would have to happen. The difference being that DXT5 can display textures in all shades of opaque and transparent. DXT1 is either opaque or transparent, nothing in between. So it is a solution to restore lights, although in a less visually pleasing way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Schnibben Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 The fix floating around, as described, sounds like the texture for the light has been switched from a DXT5 DDS to DXT1, as JV described would have to happen. The difference being that DXT5 can display textures in all shades of opaque and transparent. DXT1 is either opaque or transparent, nothing in between. So it is a solution to restore lights, although in a less visually pleasing way Just a thought: Maybe I'm totally wrong but what about dithered transparency in double sized or otherwise enlarged DXT1 textures? Couldn't this sufficiently simulate a particle emission even from a shorter distance - or would the bigger size intolerably increase the hit on fps? Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Just a question.... The file that mot working in dx10 is the one we rename off? Is a bgl I just want play a bit with that file and see by myself, thk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Dxt1 supports only 1 bit (on or off) transparency. The effect of an oversized dithered tecture would probably be more akin to laser speckle, but it could be tried. Not sure about how large the texture would have to be, or what the consequent frame hit would be. Did we mention that a DX10 fix is probably imminent? (I mean in terms of days, rather than minutes before I cause a rush of over-excitement). Personally, I would wait just a little bit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Schnibben Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 A few minutes ago I read at Steve's Blog regarding his Scenery Fixer this: "It now fixes the ftx global lights, but I need more testing to confirm that the changes don’t impact other scenery. Optimistically 4 weeks perhaps. At the moment I am waiting for beta tester feedback and tidying lose ends." (postet by himself at http://stevesfsxanalysis.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/dx10-scenery-fixer/ ) Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 OK Steve has it all working now, including the new traffic congestion lighting at intersections. You'll need to wait for his DX10 tool thingy to get the new shaders that fix things. You can see our new intersection congestion lighting in place in these shots. And no more black squares during the day time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Ok this is directly from Steve blog: It now fixes the ftx global lights, but I need more testing to confirm that the changes don’t impact other scenery. Optimistically 4 weeks perhaps. At the moment I am waiting for beta tester feedback and tidying lose ends. POSTED BY STEVEFSX | AUGUST 4, 2013, 8:52 PM REPLY TO THIS COMMENT Thank you Steve we wait your tool and we will buy... Just wonder IF Orbx can buy the fix from him and offer to his customer as a patch FREE but probably I ask too much...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highways1 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 This is great JV, thank you for the update and thanks of course to Steve for his continued DX10 work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonb Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 Great news indeed. Thank you JV, ORBX and of course Steve for making this fix at record speed. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Ok that is great. Now we will have a fix...... I wonder because I believe that this tools will be a revolution in fsx and dx10 implement, it will be, in my opinion, absolutely paramount that all developer will provide his tools inside the scenery download. Is not a stupid statement let's think about the fact that fsuipc did fix a lot of issue and get provided in a lot of package free of charge. I don't care if i need to pay extra 40 or 50 bucks, I am sure I will.... but suck a talented person should receive 100% support from customer but also from big company....why? Because is not only about profit but there is a magic word....marketing. Apple bought Siri, Gates bought a dos program called Windows, let's give Steve a place under the reflector and more resource to further develop his research....At the end he give Orbx a good service......isn't??? You have developer all around the world........give Steve an opportunity to collaborate with you guys in the future, because Orbx will continue develop more and new exciting stuff....... and you need someone like him..... Ok please as soon his tools release give all of us a link where to buy...... thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mork Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'm very happy it turned out to be fixable! Too bad it will take 4 weeks or more of course, that is a long time, but there are various alternatives (Just fly at day, use UTX lights, use DX9) to keep enjoying flying in the meantime. Great news!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 in my opinion, absolutely paramount that all developer will provide his tools inside the scenery download. Sorry, MiMomma, but Steve's DX10 Scenery Fixer permits sophisticated software addons, such as those produced by Orbx, to run in the DX10 graphic environment of FSX by correcting, repairing and enhancing the partially-crippled FSX DX10 Shader software which comes built in to FSX. It's not something which can be moved into a scenery or into an aircraft addon. If anything - it's more of an interface - a language, if you like - between the addon (scenery) and the application (FSX). To work properly - one needs all of the letters of the alphabet in order to communicate - right? Well, Steve is putting in the missing letters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 ok get it...... thank for the clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 omg i have my pc with 2 windows always on this forum and Steve blog....... can't wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Schnibben Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 You'll need to wait for his DX10 tool thingy to get the new shaders that fix things. John, please don't take this the wrong way, but does that mean there will be now not a "free DX10 fix (or a link to it)" (Ian in this thread #93)? Isn't there any chance to host the specific shader(s) needed to fix the 3D lights issues - not Steve's entire shader tool - on your support page? Otherwise it would be nice to place a hint on your FTX Global product page like "turn DX10 off", later combined with a link to Steve's upcoming payware. I remember a demo of an FSX Eurofighter by AFS Design. There is also no hint regarding DX10 on their pages, but after installing the demo and reading the readme I could avoid to purchase their product (however not only for the lack of DX10 compatibility). Just to make this very clear: I will purchase Steve's DX10 Scenery Fixer as soon as released anyway, as I wrote before. The reasons for me to buy are my excellent experiences with his free shaders - which simply are to be honored - and his own description about the nature and scope of his upcoming product: "The aim of the product is to resolve the issues that cause some add on scenery to appear grey in Microsoft Flight Simulator X DX10 Preview mode. It can also deal with add on aircraft that similarly appear grey but support in this case is more limited and has limitations when it comes to night lighting. As well as this it bundles all the DX10 fixes that I have published to the Avsim Library into a combined easy to install package. This includes the flashing runway fix, disappearing bridges fix, Virtual Cockpit shadow improvements and more. Feedback so far is that the fix works with the majority of affected scenery – but I cannot guarantee that there won’t be the odd exception or two. It includes all the shader fixes (Flashing runways etc etc) with a proper Installer. It adds to this a new rain shader fix. You can tweak some of the shader values. Finally it automates Aircraft Navigation light fixes. This applies to planes built with the FSX and legacy SDKs. There are two methods included, an automated form of the per aircraft ballast approach and a new (experimental) one off fix which seems to fix issues with flashing lights and lights that go off with the aircraft lights. The experimental fix also seems to works for planes with embedded lights." As to be seen, there is way more included than only a lights fix. This will be an equally significant improvement to FSX - though on a different level - as FTX Global. And it's not only the improvement in graphics: With this tool we DX10 maniacs finally would be able to see again long missed planes and sceneries in the sim which now are only working in DX9, like early planes by Milton Shupe or the famous 'Dove'. Another one: My system is quite capable to run FSX DX9 with very high settings, but in comparison to DX10 graphics and speed are on equal terms precisely not the same. John, wouldn't you agree? According to your signature your system is nearly the same as mine. At the very last and aside from this all: FTX Global is simply brilliant even now. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Please John in dx10 I can't achieve that: I don't want to go back to dx10 ever again..... i Mean dx9 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_66 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 ...... I don't want to go back to dx10 ever again..... i Mean dx9 lol Well, even in DX9 you can get too dark shots. Sorry to say this but this is my impression of your shot. Spirit ......Just to make this very clear: I will purchase Steve's DX10 Scenery Fixer as soon as released anyway, as I wrote before. The reasons for me to buy are my excellent experiences with his free shaders - which simply are to be honored - and his own description about the nature and scope of his upcoming product:.................... Well, we still don't know how Steve's patch will be and if it will be only in his payware tool or as an addition to his free patch. So let's wait and see how this patch will work to fix another FSX problem. Spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Yeah Spirit maybe i need to play a bit with shade.... but still i do like the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLonger Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Please John in dx10 I can't achieve that: I don't want to go back to dx10 ever again..... i Mean dx9 lol I also wonder what you achieved here what you can't achieve in DX9...? I have tested DX10 numerous times (spend last friday doing so again) but I am still using DX9, simply because it performs better on MY (!) computer. The only difference I have seen is the water but it's not something that makes me want to switch to DX10. The only other thing that might be interesting are VC shadows but the only plane I use (RealAir Legacy) doesn't show me any. In the end I am only looking at DX10 to see if it performs better but as long as it doesn't, I will stay with DX9. Afaik Steve's fixes are only fixes of graphic errors and have nothing to do with performance so I don't expect his tool to make me switch either. Unfortunately, because there always is room for improvement when it comes to FSX and performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimomma Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I agree. Is weird because i have see user get amazing performance and result in dx9 and other with dx10. I guess every setup is different.... Is a mystery for me really. I get 20 fps in dx9 (maybe is me that i can't tweak properly in dx9) and 30/35 in dx10. Again i don't know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 @Mimomma - I am locking this topic if only to stop you posting incessantly about the DX10 fix. Please can you relax and wait until Steve's tool is ready. This will not be a free patch for FTXG hosted by Orbx on our website because DX10 is inherently broken in FSX and only experts like Steve who have an intimate understanding of shader code can work around the problem. If I were a DX10 user I would clearly prefer the approach of an all-in-one tool like Steve's to make all the shader mods for various third party products compatible with FSX, not rely on discrete patches from many developers (which may conflict with each other) I will update the FTXG product page to show that the lighting is not DX10 Preview compatible and that third party tools are required to modify the shaders to make them work. I do apologise to all DX10 users that we did allude to compatibility but the honest truth is that we did not foresee the problems with the FSX code with the way the lighting was implemented at the very last minute before release. This topic has run its course, please refer to Steve's blog for any updates on the release of his tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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