Graham Eccleston Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm now in the final stages of preparing the FTX GA Traffic pack for PNW and have an issue with allocating call signs to the aircraft. FSX only allows one call sign per aircraft and at present I am using the full registration/tail number, ie 'N123AB'. When an aircraft is making multiple calls, the use of the full number becomes quite annoying. It is my understanding that in real life, once the initial call is made, the aircraft then uses an abbreviation, something like '3AB'. If I was to use this abbreviated call sign in the traffic pack, no AI aircraft would be identified using their full registration/tail number at any stage with the abbreviated one being used at all times both in ATC calls and in radar listings etc. My question is, would it be more realistic if I was to use the abbreviated aircraft registration/tail number in preference to the full number and if so, how should I treat aircraft registrations where there are zeros as the third and forth last number, ie N700AB, N770AB etc. as I understand zero should not be used as the first number in a call sign. For the Australian and New Zealand traffic pack, I dropped the VH- and ZK- from the tail number and this seems to work quite well. Any feedback would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamJSS Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 IRL where I fly, if ATC gives you a abbreviation. As is, you call up and say N991VK and then ATC reads back 1VK, you the. Can just call back as 1VK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangAce Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 When i was flying, at non towered airports only, we never used the full number, only the last three characters. We only ued the full number for first contact with a controller. I don't know about using zeros though. I cannot find any mention of that being a potential issue in my flight training materials. I think having all calls use only the last three would sound much more realistic. I know it is a requirement for issuing an N number that it cannot begin with a zero, but I don't know if that applies at all to radio transmissions or if it's just regisration red tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Personally, from a CFI's perspective, I think the full call sign would be better... Sure the abbreviated call sign is used a lot just for efficiency's sake, but there are quite a few timed when it wouldn't be appropriate... Like in the pattern of an uncontrolled airfield (and I would go as far as to say that most Orbx users are flitting between uncontrolled fields as it is... the majority of FTX NA high def airports are uncontrolled) or when two similar call signs are both on the same frequency. Using the full callsign might be a little cumbersome at times, but it's always appropriate. As for not starting with a zero, I've never heard of that one... I'm going to have to look that one up now! Of course using the full callsign would fix that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Eccleston Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm getting conflicting advice here on not controlled airports. One says they use full numbers while another says they use abbreviated ones. Would it be realistic if I compromised and just dropped the 'N' off, ie '123AB becomes the call sign. Remember, FSX will only allow one call sign per AI aircraft although it does abbreviate the user aircraft call sign on some occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lateagain Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hi Graham, Whilst I flew in the UK where initial calls from you to a controller were in full and all subsequent calls were abbreviated as discussed above (with the exception that if a likely conflict arose the controller would call asking both aircraft with the conflict to use their full call sign) I can't quarrell with Rob's CFI status. BTW I only remeber a couple of occassions when a conflict arose and I had to do that. Well except to point out that FSX ATC is total drivel anyway?! I never once had any controller ask me to "report traffic in sight" that was behind me and flying away from me ...which FSX controllers do all the time. Nor did I ever have them hand me off...... and then have anyone suggest I retune to the people who just handed me off their frequency........ etc. etc. etc. Now as I only get to fly the Sim I'd rather the drivel be kept as brief as possible personally. Sometimes it gets so silly I just turn it off altogether. The lesser of two evils and not very atmospheric. If the AI traffic would be used in more intelligent ATC add-ons that's of course a different case? Sorry to confuse the issue but my vote would be for abbreviated unless that spoils it for folk with better ATC add-ons. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Eccleston Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Decision made. I will provide two traffic files, one with full call signs and one with abbreviated ones and the user can then select the one of his/her choosing via the NA AI Traffic Control Panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griphos Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The wisdom of Solomon! I think it will probably be best to use the full numbers though, as there could be instances of two aircraft having the same last three digits/letters sometimes. And ATC comms, particularly at busy airports where I suspect most of the traffic you will be giving us will operate, use the full call signs more than abbreviated ones. Really looking forward to the NA traffic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Newman Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Decision made. I will provide two traffic files, one with full call signs and one with abbreviated ones and the user can then select the one of his/her choosing via the NA AI Traffic Control Panel. Sounds like a plan! I know which one I'll be using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lateagain Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Good thinking Graham . Keeping everyone happy! Have you ever thought of running for office? The world could do with a bit more thinking like that! Just one thing make sure that the controllers speak at high speed and are virtually unintelligble as that seems to be the style over the pond..... Ducks and runs for cover........ Seriously though US controllers do seem to rush their transmissions compared to those in the UK? In fact the programme below was released with a US and UK version because of differences in procedure, accents etc. The programme I was trying to remember the name of in my first post is VoxAtc http://www.mutleysha...k/vatc/vatc.htm. It looks excellent but personally I don't want to wear a headset when flying. Also for Bush/VFR flying the price is a but rich for me but I can see IFR pilots would really find this more realistic. Anything that improves on the FSX ATC gets my vote that's for sure. Keep up the good work. Geoff EDIT: Just reread the review I linked to and it actually highlights some differences between FAA procedure and CAA procedure. An interesting read even if you don't need the programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalbotFlyer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I was always One Yankee Romeo (last 3) when flying between non-controlled fields. When IFR into a tower field my first contact with the tower would be the full number and they always would come back with the One Yankee Romeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangAce Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Having both options is a great idea! I know at the non towered airports around here it is very rare to hear a full callsign. Everyone abbreviates to the last three characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBird Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm now in the final stages of preparing the FTX GA Traffic pack for PNW and have an issue with allocating call signs to the aircraft. That is wounderful news, Graham! Thanks for that as it will make things much better in PNW! Will it work in the other American sceneries as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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