Maurice_King Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 OK gang so here it is. I don't normally go off and write any diatribe about this product or that product but I thought I'd make an effort here. Now those of you on the forums that don't know me, those that do will vouch for the fact that I am what many would call a "Straight Shooter", probably to a fault sometimes as tact isn't my strong suit and I have on occasions rubbed people the wrong way. Now that being said if I like something be it hardware, software etc then I'll as a general rule recommend it but if I don't then that’s cool too but I’ll not knock something just because I don't particularly like it. Anyway I digress. After reading quite a few reviews on the ButtKicker® Gamer from "Guitammer", I was interested but at the time the price tag was in my opinion a little inflated especially when we have the exchange rate between Australia and the US to consider. Any way I had managed over time to put a few dollars away for a rainy day so to speak and when I saw the price had dropped dramatically at the Flight Sim Store, well let’s just say temptation won, but don't tell the wife. (Actually it was she that suggested I get one.) I ordered online on the Friday 15th August and bugger me true to form the package arrived Tuesday afternoon the 19th by a local courier who was the last link in the transport chain. I can't speak highly enough about Adrian's level of service. It is at least in this black ducks opinion, exemplary. Something I feel that many Companies could well to emulate. The box as expected was well packed by Adrian, who I dare say is probably like me - if you aren't prepared to push a packed box off a table then it isn't packed well enough. After unpacking it and opening the inner box I set about spreading the contents out on the floor and reading the somewhat sparse Manual and verified that all the required components were present I was itching to get things underway. To give those that don't know, the principle of the ButtKicker® is based on mass reaction. In other words instead of utilizing a Speaker cone as in a conventional speaker the ButtKicker® Gamer utilizes a small, linear motor or shaker. This behaves in a similar fashion to a loudspeaker, but instead of moving a cone, like a sub woofer, it attaches to your seat post of Simulation Pod sending low frequency sound directly into your body via the seat frame etc. The ButtKicker® comes as a complete kit with amplifier which is 240V Powered (in Oz), the actuator shaker, cables and all the accessories you need to connect it to either your PC or game console. Note you don't need a surround output from your PC either, as the standard stereo output is suffice BUT you will need to use either the left or right channel. If you pair your Sound Card output you may revert back to mono. OK so you all are now on the edge of your seats I suppose you'd like to know my findings. The Manual was by many standards somewhat sparse but it contains all the necessary information and diagrams which were clear and easy to follow so I doubt that there would be many that would have problems. The only connection necessary from your PC to the ButtKicker® is an audio lead, preferably from either your Sub Woofer Output from the Sound Card if available. There are adapters that are furnished with the unit that will cover most connectivity types. Whether you’re setting up a game console, Stereo or PC the Audio connection to the ButtKicker® is the same since it only needs mono audio source from the supplying PC and it is done via a small pigtailed double adapter to split the feed from your PC to your regular or surround speaker system. I feed my ButtKicker® from the Centre / Sub socket input to my Speaker Amp or if needed this can be split off the regular front Stereo channel. My Intel MoBo has an Alcatel onboard Sound Chipset but I'll be swapping this for an Xfi or similar soon I hope. One VERY important thing that is a recent addition the ButtKicker® Kit is the ground loop isolator filter which helps dramatically in reducing some extraneous noises that some user's have experienced in the past. >http://www.mozzgrafix.com/bkg/butt2.giff There is heavy duty cable that feeds the Kicker unit which has some Velcro straps to fix the cable to your office chair for instance. My chair has tapered legs so the Velcro isn't as secure as it could be so I used zip ties instead. The Clamp mechanism is solid and easy to employ and securely fastens the Kicker unit to the centre post of my office chair. There are additional adapters that are available from Guitammer should the need arise to fasten the unit to your chair. Also to be attached to the heavy cable is a strain relief loop so that the cable to the actuator isn't placed under undue stress and allow for your chair to freely rotate as needed. The ButtKicker® Amp I tucked away beside my PC case sitting on top off my radio power supplies so it was both out of the way but allowed quick access to the switches and the adjustments on the front panel. The Amp also has two small stands for setting the Main unit vertically beside your PC case if desired. There are 2 switches and 2 rotary knobs on the Amp front panel for convenience. There are Low and High Frequency cutoff switches along with Variable frequency adjustment and a Power/Volume control. I’ve heard several reviewer’s have complained that the small cooling fan in the ButtKicker® Amp is noisy, but for me especially where I placed the Amp I certainly wasn’t aware of it. There are some base recommendations included in the Manual as a starting point for your fine tuning. Once the unit was all up and running there isn't much more to do really, as there is no need to install any software or driver's etc just arc up my Sim. Since I had briefly tested the audio by running some media files once I started the Sim the effect is amazing and instantaneous. Initially the effect was extremely powerful and after a bit of fine tuning things started to really come together. One thing I can't say this enough really and must stress is that careful tuning of the applicable frequencies really is needed. You’re not trying to pound your backside up your spine and through the bottom of your skull so take things easy. Trust me being subtle here is a big plus. Please Note well that if your Aircraft or simulation sound isn't up to scratch then you will possibly be a little disappointed as this accessory does rely heavily on accurate sound to generate the required effect. Flight Test FS9 and I flew the Carenado Cessna 210, 182 and then later the Mooney and Flight One Software Pilatus PC-12. Later on I hopped in my West Pac Rescue Bell 407 and Erickson S64 Sky crane. I don't have any pay ware Hilos so I used my favorite hover control craft. I've said it before and I’ll say it again the quality of your sound package and the accuracy there of is how the ButtKicker achieves what it does and gets it's grunt from, this of course needs to be reflected accurately in the .air file too or you won't be achieving the best from your unit. In other words don't expect a miracle from the stock Microsoft 172 because it just isn't going to happen. Anyway I’m rambling again, I will again reiterate the phrase I uttered as the first vibration started to tingle the chair, " Holy Snappin Duck Shit Batman, this is gunna be good " For anyone that has actually strapped into the left or right Hand seat of a Cessna 182 or 172 and if you are the owners of these craft from Carenado and Flight One Software then you’re in for a treat. In my opinion the feelings are so faithfully reproduced, well within the confines of what can be done this way at least and if your sound pack has TRUE quality then the subtle nuances and VLF Very Low Frequencies will be felt I almost wasn't aware of until after an hour flight and careful tuning as previously described. One of the things that really hit me when I landed and taxied to parking was the fact that the left main gear in the Carenado 210 has either a bearing or disk brake problem as there was both a noticeable sensation in the seat and the corresponding audio cue from my lower left, Ah the wonders of surround sound. I then parked and during my shut down procedure as I advance the throttle just off the stop 1000-1200 RPM with the Park brake set I cut the mixture, all sounds normal to me. Well my seat was barely perceptively vibrating with the engine idle but as the engine slowed there was significant shaking and general Airframe shudder as you'd expect in this type of aircraft. Now this I can definitely say is due to the accuracy of the sound pack from Caranado as I have some audio software that allowed me to look at the frequencies contained in the individual sounds and as I suspected there are some low frequencies below our hearing range but certainly not that of the ButtKicker®. Since I've flown 182's,and 172's I can honestly say these sensations are faithfully reproduced, so much so that I was stunned as the Prop came to a stop the gentle and even subtle vibration was replaced as the sounds died away with a few brief thumps coinciding with the VERY low Bass sounds as the engine stopped. Any concerns regarding FSX were soon laid to rest as I repeated the tests in FSX also with near identical results. So gentle is the vibration and tireless are some of the tiny effects that you, especially if you carefully tune the frequency and Power level on the ButtKicker®, that you really don't realize just how much information you soaking up with my backside that I really wasn't aware of until I had landed. For example Remember when you’re tired and been on the road for some time traveling say traveling interstate at holiday time and you pull up for a cat nap you are suddenly aware of how quiet things are with no road noise and vibration well this was the same sort of sensation believe. I also did several race tests in rFactor with the Aussie V8 and the newly released Bathurst legends as well as GTR2, and was suitably impressed also, being rewarded with thumps and rumbles from various areas of the circuits. There were also little things I had, at least up until that point had not really been aware of like the little jolt as a tire starts to rotate again after a brake lockup, ripple strips, track grooves and other things that have sounds associated this coupled with force feedback on the wheel you can really start to get an impression of how powerful such a relatively simple thing as sound feedback can be. In my honest opinion Guitammer ButtKicker® is a very good accessory for the PC and Console Gamer market and “Bang for Buck – I believe it is worth saving for.†@$200 in round figures currently here in Oz I don't think this is exorbitant for a quality add on to your simming pleasure. We tend to have to pay more even allowing for the exchange rate and Govt tarrifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan2 Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 So , not recommended for a laptop with Dell speakers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 You could use it with ANY audio source Alan, I have a Centre/LFE out from my sound Card so this helps BUT the ButtKicker can be run from the stereo output by using the supplied double adapter and either the Left or Right channel because if you pair them you will end up with mono in your regular Speakers rather than stereo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Mason Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Mine got delivered today, but alas I am working for the next 24 hours so I will add some feedback in a day when I have it installed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodduck Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Excellent Review Maurice. I am quite certain anyone who has spent any time in VOZ understand where "you are coming from", and appreciate your comments. You have given me food for thought, thank you. Cheers, John W AUBlue: 6065 AUGold: 6065 AUGreen: ? AURed: ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Mine got delivered today, but alas I am working for the next 24 hours so I will add some feedback in a day when I have it installed! Are they allowed to be installed in squad cars Ryan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumman Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Maurice, thanks for the very comprehensive report. I ordered one Monday and it arrived today (vote of thanks to Adrian for the excellent service). But I'm not allowed to open it till Sunday. I may have to grovel again One question I have is how to get FSX sound out of the woofer output. I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi card with the speakers plugged into the centre/woofer and headphones in the standard socket. But I can't coax any sound from the speakers. I know the woofer output works because I can hear sound with the diagnostics, but FSX doesn't seem interested in talking to anything other than line out. Which means I'm not going to be able to get the Buttkicker to work from the woofer either. Any suggestions? Also, does anyone know of a way to get FSX engine/environment sounds to exclusively use a different sound channel (e.g. centre/woofer) while the headphones can be plugged into the standard output? This would be very useful for online flying so you don't get engine sounds in your headphones while trying to copy ATC instructions. I usually end up turning the environment sounds down low in FSX, or using the Q key, but it would be much more like real life if you had radio only through the headphones and all other sounds through the speakers and/or the Buttkicker. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Depending on the actual configuration you may well need to check but from my understanding of the X-Fi you will need to plug your main speaker system into the Front channel and the Headphones into the Rear of Center/LFE and turn Headphone redirection on. FSX isn't surround capable as far as I am aware so this will effect the sound and how it is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Mason Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Mine got delivered today, but alas I am working for the next 24 hours so I will add some feedback in a day when I have it installed! Are they allowed to be installed in squad cars Ryan? lol.......allowed.........Possibly not...............able to adequately hide it out of sight after removing the seat and putting it underneath so it cant be seen.............sure! time will tell! pics tomorrow after I figure out just how this will work!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lehmann (FSS) Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Great review there Maurice, the BKG really is a neat bit of kit. Thanks guys for the support! @aussiecop - you one crazy sob! I love it! Definitely get the pics up when you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhalf Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I was thinking about getting something like this for a while. How much is it? you failed to mention that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appliance Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 As an aside to Maurice's (Mozz's) outstanding review I have owned for several years now the Aura Pillow/Backpack solutions. Much cruder with less versatile mounting options than the Buttkicker but picked up for just $25 following liquidation sale ... worldwide. Cost effective Bought my first one from Jaycar and subsequent ones from Gadgetworld, Burwood. Adds to the immersion factor but shall we say less comfortable to use than Buttkicker. Anyone else admit to using these alternatives? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Aussiecop, the idea of your police car also being a secret mobile entertainment centre is great, although i cant help imagining a news report that might sound a bit like this...... "Earlier today a man walked into the National City bank in Indianapolis, the crazed felon threatened bank staff with a sawn off shotgun before making off in a black 97 Camaro with what is believed to be a substancial amount of money. In an amazing coincidence an Indiana state police patrol car was parked accross the street at the time of the incident, however there was no response from the trooper in the car, who as eye witnesses explained, appered to be vibrating in his seat whilst laughing like a madman! The Indiana state police department have so far declined to make a statement refering to the incident as a matter for internal affairs, however sources have revealed that an inspection of the police vehicle turned up a mass of consealed computer hardware commonly associated with flight simulation fanatics." LOL This buttkicker thing does sound good though, i may have to start saving up! Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumman Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Depending on the actual configuration you may well need to check but from my understanding of the X-Fi you will need to plug your main speaker system into the Front channel and the Headphones into the Rear of Center/LFE and turn Headphone redirection on. FSX isn't surround capable as far as I am aware so this will effect the sound and how it is available. Yet you managed to connect the Buttkicker to the woofer channel. How did you get FSX sound from that? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 I think there is an internal PIPE in the Sigmatel on Board Sound on this Intel MoBo. The same software will recognise my Headset (USB), Second Sound Card, etc so the tripple lead went from the Front,Rear,CentreLFE to my Logitec Speakers and the little fly lead double adapter hooked in there. I've found that just because you have particular Outputs on the Sound card doesn't meant you get sound from that direction or port. With the Sigmatel I have to reset the sockets all the time and to be frank it is damned annoying. See image, this may be why your not getting Audio from FSX correctly. If the front panel sockets are active they negate the Centre/LFI and Rear Output, it is annoying at best and damn frustrating at worst when I'm working with audio files for other projects. You might need to make sure that you don't have Headphone Redirection On either as this causes me errors and probably you to. I hope this answers your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumman Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Thanks Maurice. I'll have a look into the Sound Blaster control panel and see what I can work out. Cheers, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Mason Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Aussiecop, the idea of your police car also being a secret mobile entertainment centre is great, although i cant help imagining a news report that might sound a bit like this...... "Earlier today a man walked into the National City bank in Indianapolis, the crazed felon threatened bank staff with a sawn off shotgun before making off in a black 97 Camaro with what is believed to be a substancial amount of money. In an amazing coincidence an Indiana state police patrol car was parked accross the street at the time of the incident, however there was no response from the trooper in the car, who as eye witnesses explained, appered to be vibrating in his seat whilst laughing like a madman! The Indiana state police department have so far declined to make a statement refering to the incident as a matter for internal affairs, however sources have revealed that an inspection of the police vehicle turned up a mass of consealed computer hardware commonly associated with flight simulation fanatics." LOL This buttkicker thing does sound good though, i may have to start saving up! Russ. Bloody hilarious mate, where did you come up with the national city bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Harris Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 N1 Russ awaiting the evening news for conformation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I just did a quick google search for banks in Indianapolis! picked the National City bank at random from the list Sometimes my imagination gets the better of me Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Mason Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 The hilarious part is, I do part time work at national city banks! have done for 3 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bman. Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I too can vouch for the Buttkicker. I have had mine for a year now and can't imagine flying without it. It just adds to level of realism. I picked mine up for $50 usd.... What I can't figure out... how in the world can they produce such a nice kit for that price. What comes in that big ole box for $50 is amazing. Regarding the channels, I run my BKG through the rear channels and all is well. Every plane has a different threshold for the amplified bass type notes so you just turn the gain knob up/down on the amp and you are buttshaking all the way to the gate. Benjamin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_NZ Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 None of you jokers coming over to NZ for awhile? Unfortunately the price works out as NZ$340 landed in Wellington which is way over budget... If some nice person picked one up and flew out this way I'd save $100! @Aussiecop Is the reason for installing one in the squad car for entertainment, or to scare someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Hey Ryan.........I suppose a few people are wondering why you went to the US of A to do the cop thing......so enlighten us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Mason Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Bulldog, it wasnt for the cop thing that made me come here, why does any man do anything drastic? for a woman of course! but I found out abourr 3 years alter that was a amassive mistake but by that time I already ahd a couple of kids so was bound to stay here, just so happens I managed to mke things a little better for myself by getting back into police work. I hope that unravels some of the mystery for you mate. Cheers AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolter van der Spoel Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 as the saying goes "One ........ has more pull than a thousend horses" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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