What do you guys think.

[Dadtom65]

So just heard about the new graphics card 3060 that has 12gb of ram. So is that going to better than the 3060ti or worse. Thanks Derek.

[renault]

2 hours ago, Dadtom65 said:

So just heard about the new graphics card 3060 that has 12gb of ram. So is that going to better than the 3060ti or worse. Thanks Derek.

 

Good day Derek

 

I think that your question , as you have worded it , is impossible to answer definitively.

 

Perhaps we could approach it this way.

 

1) What is the specific problem(s) you are trying to address.

2) What are the  operating conditions, constraints and assumptions your are making.

     

Here the resolution and desired fps are most critical to define. 

 

The issue from my perspective  is understanding where the constraints are in your system as it stands now.  For example if you are rendering at 1080p and your cpu usage at say  40 fps is at 95% and your gpu usage is 99% then regardless of which gpu you chose, you would see very little to no difference. In other words it is just not the gpu that matters , but the entire system cpu, data storage, motherboard and memory speed  and gpu working together which is important. In this example, your cpu is almost completely maxed out as well, so very little uplift can be obtained by changing to a different card.

 

Most importantly you want the system to be balanced.  If you decided that the higher Vram variant of the card was your answer, then if you cranked up rendering detail, or changed a lot of the rendering options to try to take advantage of the larger vram, under the above  cpu constraints the added load on the cpu and its rendering chain (mother board , memory speed etc)  may result in far worse performance. This is because you are working in a very unbalanced state where the load on one part of the rendering chain(cpu processing chain)  is a severe constraint on the other side (gpu).

 

Here is a example that you can implement on your existing system to give more insight into how your system is currently working . It uses the Nvidia performance overlay (available from Nvidia Geforce experience) and the little tool GPU-Z.

 

It is a screenshot in MS2020 at Orbx KSBA.  I am running 2560x1440 native and all my settings in MS2020 are on Ultra. I have fps locked at 30 fps externally in NVCP. This is how I run all my sims and have done for a number of years now.

 

As you can see, the GPU usage is at 80% which I find is a good working nominal value as it goes up to about 95% or so over central London for example, but the sim is still very fluid , and still is running at 30 fps.  CPU usage is much lower, suggesting that I could render at a higher fps , if I were to replace my card RTX2060 super 8GB with a faster one. 

 

 

However in my case Vram is still only about 6.5GB and unless I saw over London that it maxed out the gpu (it doesn't and stays at about 7.9GB)  and my fps started to drop below 30 because I was exceeding available VRAM then at this resolution neither of the two 3060's would offer any particular advantage.

 

If on the other hand, if my Vram still stayed at about 6.5 , but gpu usage went up to 99-100%  and my fps dropped below 30 (or whatever value you deemed to be unacceptable if you had no constraint imposed on fps)  then I would look at the 3060tii , because generally speaking the tii would have more processing cores, and greater rendering throughput.

 

But if my Vram was right up to maximum , and worse yet, I was dumping textures from Vram to Ram , because I simply didn't have enough Vram then I might consider the 3060 with additional memory. The reason here is that the constraint in my system at the fps and resolution I am using is that I don't have enough Vram to handle the texture settings, and display resolution. I could also, reduce my rendering settings and screen resolution to reduce Vram usage rather than buying a new card.

 

I hope that this little example , puts a perspective around  comments 1 and 2 that I personally feel are necessary to answer your question.  It would be the approach that I would use to decide if I was interested in upgrading,  which card would be best for my particular system with the constraints and settings that I run my flight simulator under.

 

Although you may not wish to run your simulator locked at 30 fps, it does have one advantage for testing purposes is that it allows you to "normalize" the testing condition 

to remove the impact of changing fps on the testing results and to better understanding the system loads and constraints on what you are trying to do. You can always remove it by deselecting the Frame rate limit in NVCP when you are finished. 

 

Otherwise the best answer I could give would be I simply don't know and any comment under that condition would just be speculation.  

 

Hope this is of some help

Cheers 

Pete

 

And he is the screenshot without all the data .

 

 

[PiotrMKG]

4 hours ago, Dadtom65 said:

So just heard about the new graphics card 3060 that has 12gb of ram. So is that going to better than the 3060ti or worse. Thanks Derek.

I think they made this card having miners in mind. 3060ti is better option. Has more CU clocked lower, but You can OC it in Afterburner 

[Dadtom65]

Hi. I hope to maybe update my system some time this year, It might be an i5 10600K or the i7 10700K not sure yet and of course  I will need  a new  graphics card as  well. So when I  read about the new 3060 with more memory, I assumed that would be  better as I read some where  that MSFS likes more  memory or am I wrong. At the moment I run MSFS in 2K with the settings on High and good frame rates. Of course I would prefer to  run  the sim on ultra settings but do not  think I can afford such a  graphics card.  Thanks Derek.

[renault]

12 minutes ago, Dadtom65 said:

Hi. I hope to maybe update my system some time this year, It might be an i5 10600K or the i7 10700K not sure yet and of course  I will need  a new  graphics card as  well. So when I  read about the new 3060 with more memory, I assumed that would be  better as I read some where  that MSFS likes more  memory or am I wrong. Thanks Derek.

 

Hi Derek

 

Ram is what they were referring to Derek I believe rather than Vram.

 

In fact , with DX12 (later this year)  I have read that Asobo hopes to do some optimization to reduce Vram usage from current usage levels

 

Thanks for clarifying your question . It is very helpful to understand what was behind what you were asking.

 

There are many very good options out there now.  Be sure to have a good look at the new AMD processors. Some of them are by all accounts really fabulous and offer really superb performance.

 

My wife got a new laptop a few weeks ago , and I managed to run XPlane off a Samsung portable SSD on it just to check. It has a 8core AMD processor , along with a Radeon GPU (sorry I have no idea what specific processor/GPU)  but the bottom line is it is so good  it is quite amazing.  

 

Certainly I am not a AMD user , but what I saw on her laptop makes me feel now I would seriously look at that brand rather than Intel if I was building a new machine in the foreseeable future.

 

Lots of things for you to research for your decision.

All the best and good luck with your new machine.

 

All the best 

Pete

 

[Dadtom65]

Thanks Pete. I’ve got so used to calling you renault. . Anyway i do not think it will be for awhile yet as the boss still wants her Dishwasher first. I have been looking at the AMD bits as well but if your like me you tend to stick with what you know. Just noticed I have to go my battery on my IPad is just about to go. Thanks Derek. 

[renault]

15 minutes ago, Dadtom65 said:

Thanks Pete. I’ve got so used to calling you renault. . Anyway i do not think it will be for awhile yet as the boss still wants her Dishwasher first. I have been looking at the AMD bits as well but if your like me you tend to stick with what you know. Just noticed I have to go my battery on my IPad is just about to go. Thanks Derek. 

 

I am like you Derek. Dyed in the wool, tattooed Intel thru and thru .... 

 

But I was so impressed with my wife's laptop and both my son and son-in-law have new gaming systems with AMD processors that they both love that I have been having a real rethink recently

 

Who knows what Intel will have when you are ready, but AMD in my opinion is really chugging on all cylinders now on the cpu side and they are really worth  looking at.

 

See you

Pete

[PiotrMKG]

If the system is mainly for gaming I would stick with Intel, AMD has some work to do (memory latency, AGESA). 

[renault]

2 hours ago, PiotrMKG said:

If the system is mainly for gaming I would stick with Intel, AMD has some work to do (memory latency, AGESA). 

So if I understand correctly , agesa is part of the bios initialization (I'm certainly not anything close to an expert in such matters so I may be wrong. Please correct me if I am)  . In times past, this seemed to be something that AMD struggled with. I'm surprised that it is still an issue for them.

 

Is it a serious architectural  issue with the new chip design or something that you feel will get addressed relatively soon. I have been following B12's building documentation and your input as well to him. I maybe mistakenly understood from your comments on your new 5900X that you were quite pleased with it.  

 

Have you encountered serious problems that caused you to rethink about the applicability of this processor?

 

Thank you

Pete

[PiotrMKG]

AGESA for Zen 2 was fine after 7 months after release. Now we are waiting for good one for Zen 3. This only applies for enthusiasts, if You run Your system on Auto settings in BIOS than You should be fine, for ex. for now there is no way to run RAM faster than 3600MHz when before Zen3 3800MHz was pretty common, and Zen 3 was said to be able 4000MHz for some of the good chips. PBO/CO overclocking is a mess for now too, I got my 5900X to 5000MHz after long hours of tweaking settings but it shouldn’t take so much time considering it’s only 200MHz over stock. It will get better over time, AMD has been out of the top player for enthusiasts that it has to catch up with some of the stuff, on the other hand Intel just tweaks it’s products for last decade so it just works out of the box.

[PiotrMKG]

4 hours ago, renault said:

So if I understand correctly , agesa is part of the bios initialization (I'm certainly not anything close to an expert in such matters so I may be wrong. Please correct me if I am)  . In times past, this seemed to be something that AMD struggled with. I'm surprised that it is still an issue for them.

 

Is it a serious architectural  issue with the new chip design or something that you feel will get addressed relatively soon. I have been following B12's building documentation and your input as well to him. I maybe mistakenly understood from your comments on your new 5900X that you were quite pleased with it.  

 

Have you encountered serious problems that caused you to rethink about the applicability of this processor?

 

Thank you

Pete

I am satisfied with my purchase, just need time to polish some stuff to be even better, there is more performance to gain with better BIOS.