active T E Orbx V4 and V5 comparisons

[John Heaton]

I had this elsewhere so i will try with new heading 

Trying my best to love P3D V5 - and trying to compare the fun I used to have with V4

 

Not at all that happy with what I get with Gold Coast airport or City 

 

Here are 3 examples of UK TE  Central and South - V4 and V 5 - all slides that count to the right

New VC  - 8 GB - V4 great  - 30FPS constant - all slides to right

 

What am I doing wrong ??

 

What are shaders - not known them before - is this the effect on the bad colouration 

ie the new thing in V5 - can I get rid

 

7 days left to get my pension Dollars back 

 

Quote

[John Heaton]

add to above

[aero-3fsx]

It might be helpful if you could be more specific as to what picture is what

[John Heaton]

4 minutes ago, aero-3fsx said:

It might be helpful if you could be more specific as to what picture is what

i don't follow the question

I thought it was clear that this was a comparison between the 2 sims as to the big difference 

in colour and clarity

The best pictures are V4 - the worst V5 - why aren't the V5 the same ??

[RobC]

I see what you are talking about, I also see this.

 

Not sure why they are so different though, you would think with DX12 things would be much clearer/crisper, but it looks the opposite?

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

Direct X 12 is no guarantee that things would be better, it is a different way of doing things

and will apparently unlock new features.

However, it is also new and less developed than P3D for Direct X 11.

[John Heaton]

This is my suggestion as to the difference and my answer to my own question until someone can show me why I can't get good scenery in V5

and based on my own experience in the digital Imaging fields over 30 years

 

We all love the Orbx TE series - but from time to time - a number of users had a complaint about odd colours

in various parts/scenes - that Orbx attributed to differing photos taken at different times - giving different colours and shades.

in the Direct X11

 

P3D V5 is a NEW sim  - we are often reminded - and is based on some new technologies - including DX 12 which allows for developers 

to make use of these new technology advances - EG a re-shading of items such as clouds etc

 

(I note that each time we might change a slider - The sim tells us that the "shaders" will be re-calculated - whatever that means ??)

 

Personally - I don't think that the TE designed for a "Different Sim" (V4) - has ported very well - across to this new sim - and is confusing  the 

coloration/Hue - and the normal brightness and contrast controls - and giving an uncontrollable "HDR vividness" to the TE as if LM 

have tried to include a base for 4K HDR monitors - definitely not found in V4 . (Dark areas not controllable and dark greys or blues - are are very Black)

 

That's why I stopped using my 4K monitor and reverted to my HD 1080 which with my 8 GB card allowed me to fly V4 - low and slow - even over London

at all sliders to the right and was OK for high settings in MSFS

 

Conclusion ?? - I will stay at Length with V4 for slow and Low - and my 8GB card - and also for MSFS  - until I can use my 4K res monitor - (in use with X Box one X)

with the new MSFS sim - designed for the X Box Series X - whenever that comes out - and the new flight sim - which includes DX 12 - materializes.

 

V5 will be kept only for high flights in aircraft designed for V5 and not just ported - as I am also finding in that  my Hangar P3D V4  birds - not flying well in V5

- lots of CTDs.

 

Lockheed Martin dumped the new sim - in such a way - that developers were not ready with add-ons - and the ported ones are not well accepted by the new sim

for a number of reasons - not only DX12

 

All development for the V5 sim seems to have ceased - I note the release of the Florida TE for V4 - no mention of its use in V5

 

PS - maybe I will test the V5 on my 4K monitor - - - sometime

[Nick Cooper]

3 minutes ago, John Heaton said:

All development for the V5 sim seems to have ceased - I note the release of the Florida TE for V4 - no mention of its use in V5

 

[John Heaton]

10 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said:

 

OK - I acknowledge P3DV5 in the above - but all I saw was the strong P3DV4+ !! - and I used Orbx only as an example 

of what appears the norm with a very few airport examples already WIP when V5 released shown in FS Elite.

[Nick Cooper]

Hello John,

 

Lockheed Martin moved the goalposts with P3D v5 by finally updating the airport database.

At the same time, they decided to update the default buildings.

The way they did it removed the existing default airport buildings catalogue altogether and

replaced them with a whole new catalogue.

This method results in P3D v4 airports that use default buildings showing with not only missing

buildings but also all airports, default or otherwise, with spurious new buildings.

 

Naturally, customers of all developers expect these introduced anomalies to be fixed free of charge,

usually assuming that it is the developers who have made a mistake.

Orbx has said that wherever it is possible this will be done but it will take time and may not be

possible in every case.

 

My own personal view is that P3D v4.5 has many advantages over its successor and I continue to use it.

I also use FSX from time to time, because there are some particularly good aircraft models, the

Project Tupolev Tu 154 B  being one of them, that do not work in a 64 bit simulator.

 

 

[John Heaton]

Hi Nick

I am not one who thinks that Orbx should do any redevelopment of Their PD3V4 products free of charge

As you constantly try to get the message across - (to the  many that think this) - that P3DV5 is 

a new Sim  - with many innovations and changes -

Common sense should show those meanies -  it is not simply viable - technically - or commercially -

for Orbx to correct the errors that have been imparted by LM in a hurried release of a new sim

Most would NOT expect Orbx to do a new scenery for MSFS  - eg  Gold Coast City - done previously

for P3D or XPlane - or the TE series

 

However - what I am trying to find out are the reasons why the quality of Orbx TE etc. are so different in the 2 sims

and IMHO - why have Orbx actually gone ahead and said that V4 TE would port to V5 - because I don't think it does.

 

The release of  Florida TE last week to me is an example of what I am trying to say relative to the differences

I will take a guess as to which sim was used to take the screen shots - and I assume by Iain as usual - because they don't

look as good as the ones we saw back then when the TE came out for X Plane

 

Were these latest screen shots using V4 - V5 ? ---- I commented earlier on the qualities of blues - greys and Blacks - being too Black

and contrastly vivid

 

Screen shots - 4 - 5 - 7 - 9and 10 are examples of what I find in using TE in V5 - and the others are  not that much better - 3 of them 

are almost Black and white.

 

In some ways - regretfully - V5  was too late - (or too early)  - because the advent of the new MSFS sim has really changed what might have been

a new P3D era with developers using the new attributes to redevelop their past products of scenery and Aircraft - happily serving P3D V x and XP Vulcan 12

 

[Nick Cooper]

Hello John,

I agree with all of your observations, in particular about the sharper contrast between dark and light.

So far, I see no products that are claimed to be P3D v5 specific that do not suffer from the same effect.

As far as virtual cockpits are concerned, I mitigate the problem by switching on the cockpit lighting and

await the inevitable update that will eventually fix it.

Reading the whole topic again from the beginning, you seem to have convinced yourself of the path

you wish to follow.

 

[John Heaton]

5 hours ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello John,

I agree with all of your observations, in particular about the sharper contrast between dark and light.

So far, I see no products that are claimed to be P3D v5 specific that do not suffer from the same effect.

As far as virtual cockpits are concerned, I mitigate the problem by switching on the cockpit lighting and

await the inevitable update that will eventually fix it.

Reading the whole topic again from the beginning, you seem to have convinced yourself of the path

you wish to follow.

 

Thanks Nick 

It feels good that someone sees what I see  - and agrees with me - I take note of the trick to turn the cockpit lighting on.

The question therefore - what action can we take - so yes I do hope I have it mapped out  - especially as I received a Microsoft URL from

the sales and Marketing manager of Honeycombe - that included this extract from the Article that I would love to show to a few sceptics 

about my plans. 

 

However -  I do hope you are not booked into a hospital to have the cataracts removed - as I am - believe or not - on the famous son of

York remembrance day 

November 5th

[Nick Cooper]

Hello John,

I had one done in 2018, then waited just over two years and had the other one done a week ago.

 

[John Heaton]

3 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello John,

I had one done in 2018, then waited just over two years and had the other one done a week ago.

 

They want me to do both eyes in 1 month - the second in December - and I said Yes !

although one might ask why at my age.

 

"because that will give me clear vision for my new X BOX in Nov. and the new MSFS at Xmas" !!!

[Nick Cooper]

I've had to wear glasses since my nose was big enough to support them.

Now, I can see without them to do just about everything except really close up.

For me it has been a transformation and I hope it will be for you too.

[Larry_R]

Hi guys, 

 

The following is my understanding which of course can be wrong: 

 

Among the many changes from v4 to v5 is the switch to a 'linear color space' which is apparently supposed to be more computationally efficient. However there is a distinct side effect as described here:

 

https://www.kinematicsoup.com/news/2016/6/15/gamma-and-linear-space-what-they-are-how-they-differ#:~:text=First we need to know what linear color,color space without that property is called ”non-linear”.

 

This means that some but not all textures that look right in previous versions will not look good in v5 and there is no easy fix. (It's possible that shader mods might help but those have side effects too.)  Tweaking texture colors, including PR is a very tedious business and requires access to the source files. So any fix to linear color space problems  requires that the developer still be active and also have the time and energy to work on this problem in addition to other commitments. 

 

In addition to the color space changes,  the lighting system was changed, the look of water has changed; the list goes on. 

 

Cheers, 

[RobC]

All of this makes sense when it is explained fully, THANK YOU for taking the time guys.

 

And, on a personal note, I think Orbx did a great job with TE Florida!! The other TE products I bought and installed but I don't seem to like them as much (at least at this time), like for example Washington, I just don't seem to like it as much as just with the regions and global.  Not sure why, probably because the Pacific North West was such a well done product to begin with?

 

 For as much as Orbx has given us with FREE (fairly major) updates and discounts for completely different sims, it has at least given us a lot to work with to have both _P3Dv4 and V5 looking as good as it can get!!  So no matter how you look at it, Orbx has stepped up and done well for it's loyal customers with what LM has given them to work with.. 

 

And just as a side note, I am REALLY enjoying TE Florida!! The colors, the water touches, the performance (with V5), and MANY of the airports look 10 times better,  If you know the area, and fly it a lot, this is a MUST have!! And the GREAT thing about Florida and TE is, the only "seasons" we have are Football, baseball, hockey, NASCAR and that other one....so you don't have to remove it in the winter...