active LOWI Papi Problems

[fuzz1]

Picked up this superb offering during the sale and enjoying it immensely. Many thanks to Orbx and Jarrad for this masterpiece.   I was so concerned my aged PC running FSX - A boxed

would disintegrate with the demands such scenery detail would inflict, yet remain extremely pleased and quite relieved with the performance apparent; obviously due to the painstaking and intelligent optimization efforts adopted in crafting this product.  This is something I am particularly grateful for.   All control panel options checked, 6.5 LOD, 4096 textures selected and still getting a locked 30fps that's quite smooth...most of the time, with my default cessna test plane.   

 

One thing I'd ask for some help with.... the papi lights at both ends of the runway disappear when approaching the airport.   At 5nm or so you can clearly see them, but get closer than 3nm and they completely disappear.  Upon closer inspection the phenomenon appears tied to a texture swap that occurs within that 3km threshold distance.   Further than this and it appears the ground textures around the runway seem to initially display the fsx default textures;  you can see the adjacent default fsx grass runway distinctly (when zoomed in).  At this point the papi lights show and work properly.  Then when you cross this 3nm  distance, the textures morph for a second, swap to the more refined Orbx textures around the runway....and the papi lights disappear.    It seems once I cross the runway threshold they reappear again for a split second then disappear altogether once again.

 

Any ideas what could be causing this?    I do have REX TD installed and have always used their enhanced airport lighting option in my sim to good effect.  No other airport in my sim has ever displayed the papi problem described so I wonder if there is some specific conflict with the REX lights and the Orbx LOWI lighting?  I also have the orbx lights configurator installed but have not messed around with it yet.

 

Would appreciate any ideas and possible solutions.  

[Doug Sawatzky]

Hi,

 

I would try a 4.5 LOD and 1024 textures, just to see what happens?

 

Cheers

 

Doug

[fuzz1]

Hey thanks Doug,   I guess I should have also spelled out what I have tried.

Yes, attempted the 4.5 LOD and 1024 textures but same problem.   Also reinstalled current libraries but no go.

I run FSX in DX9 and currently own a GTX970 with 376.33 drivers.  Nvidia Inspector properly tweaked, or so I believe.  Again,

the disappearing papi lights only occur with LOWI. 

[fuzz1]

I've just completed a closer observation of the papi lights themselves by zooming and slewing close to them from a number of angles, heights and distances.   You know, it now appears that the papi boxes may be obscuring the light objects themselves due to their placement.  From up close , 50' in front of the papi boxes and 50' high, you can see all the lights.  Slew down 10' and they start to dim.  Another 10' down and they disappear completely as though the boxes are hiding the lights.  I.e, the light effects are placed 'behind' the boxes. 

 

This appears to be in keeping with my earlier post about the papi's appearing properly from a good distance out, before the Orbx textures are loaded around the runway.  I.e., when the Orbx textures load as you get closer to the airport, including the papi boxes, they hide the lights.  Further out the default FSX textures display that do not include the papi boxes so the lights show. Is this a possibility? If so, how to remedy? 

[Jarrad Marshall]

G'day Fuzz, 

 

Thanks very much for the kind words, and I am glad that you are enjoying the benefits of the performance optimisation - it's an aspect of many of our products that is often overlooked by many users, yet accounts for a great deal of development time and resources, so I do appreciate it

 

Regarding the PAPIs in FSX - you are correct that they present some problems. Default PAPI lighting (ie embedded within the APX) is still the best solution for all versions of the sim, however there are trade-offs to using this method, particularly in FSX. As you've observed, any ground poly or 3D model in FSX will always draw as a higher priority than a PAPI light - this was fixed/changed in newer versions of P3D. 

 

How we usually overcome this problem is to cut a hole into the ground poly around the PAPI lights in order for them to shine through, and also to place the PAPI light splashes slightly ahead of the 3D models in order to avoid draw-order clashes. Because this creates visual flaws with the ground poly, I always try to minimize the hole size, prioritizing viewing angles that would be seen on a relatively accurate approach. So basically, there shouldn't be any problems viewing the PAPI lights if you are near the glideslope, however if you try to view it from odd angles/altitudes you will likely run into trouble. The ground poly kicks into view at 10,000m so anything within this area will be affected. 

 

I've attached a couple of screenshots of how they should look in FSX. If yours look different, there are two suggestions to try out: 

 

1. Have a play around with your graphics card settings, particularly any AA settings. Mushy/blurry textures in the distance (ie lower mip-map levels) can sometimes obscure the effect. 

2. If you have any replacement default light textures, try re-activating the default ones. Some REX products are a common source of nice replacement light textures. 

 

Cheers,

Jarrad

 

 

 

 

[fuzz1]

Most obliged for your swift and comprehensive response, Jarrad.  I can tell you that at least in my case, optimization and performance enhancement efforts are absolutely warranted in designing and producing sim addons.   My buying decisions have always been influenced by this first, eye candy second. 

 

Unfortunately I see no papi lights from any of the angles and distances depicted in your screenshots;  thanks for your effort in providing these nonetheless.

 

However, I did heed your suggestion 2. and I now have papi lights again.   It seems the REX lights I had selected were simply too small and obscured by the larger papi box objects.  Selecting the large lights in REX seems to overcome this problem...although all lights at the airport are now giant orbs   I can certainly work with this though and thank you

for your suggestions in this regard.

 

As can be seen in your very last screenshot, it does appear the boxes are actually placed in front of and not behind the light splashes;  the little dots in the center of the lights would seem to indicate this.   I note, in comparison, similar papi boxes (NSTU, AYPY), have their light splash effect offset slightly to one side of the boxes thereby avoiding being obscured, so  this appears to be a possible solution (or eliminating the papi boxes altogether?).

 

I wish I knew how to fiddle with the placement of the light splashes relative to the papi boxes, but I don't.  Failing any suggestions/instructions on how to accomplish this I think you can mark this one as resolved. 

 

Thanks again Jarrad, for your help with this and all your efforts in providing us with this fabulous place to fly.