P3Dv4 Airports

[TerryM]

Dear ORBX.....

 

I read a few moments ago a message on this forum from Sean Latimer venting frustration over the planned release of PAID airports...... which as usual was shut down immediately by one of your administrators.... it read as follows: "I have 25 airports I have purchased and still cannot use them in P3D v4!! It is frustrating to see new products being released like LEBB and SA LC, which I have to pay for, yet the ones I've paid for already cannot be enjoyed.Please prioritise these airports as P3D v4 has been out for 2 months and other major developers have completed their updates"

 

Whilst Sean is clearly just venting, like many others, it does seem that the moment anyone mentions anything related to ObjectFlow, the thread is shut down immediately and the discussion brushed aside.

 

I have been in the software industry for 20 years, working across many business sectors, so I understand the level of effort that goes into planning, development, testing, and release of new software products and upgrades to existing ones; and personally I am happy to wait for a quality stable product to be released, However......I can also understand the reason for Sean venting....He has a substantial amount of money invested in your products (as do a number of your customers); he probably doesn't understand the software delivery cycle, and he simply wants to use the ORBX products that he paid to work with Prepare3D, to continue to work as before.

 

Obviously the real issue here is that Prepar3d has recently gone through a major architectural change in that its moved from being a 32 bit application to being a 64 bit application, however he's probably not a developer, in the same way that most of your customers aren't; he probably really doesn't understand what that means; he just sees ORBX releasing new products that work against both the old and the new architecture at the same time, with a delay in the upgrade of items he previously purchased, and an unwillingness by ORBX to discuss timelines for these paid items to be upgraded.

 

Now please, don't misinterpret my post; I think that as your customers we are extremely lucky in that ORBX make their products available to us across platforms and releases without charging us again and again like other companies in our community do (such as A2A Simulations, HiFi and Rex); so of course you are to be commended for that as I'm sure it provides a significant hit to your revenue stream, however..... 

 

Instead of simply killing Sean's thread, and so many others asking the same question...... how about ORBX engaging with their customers a little more; for example, JV mentioned a few weeks back that ObjectFlow is in beta.... but nothing else has really been said...... 

 

A little communication would help in clearing people's frustration, help them understand, and back up their belief that ORBX are working hard to ensure that the money they have invested in your products is safe, and it won't be too long before they can once again enjoy their favorite airports.

 

So for example.....Going back to Sean's thread; Is the issue that the new recently released airports are able to be released because they are using the 'new' in-house 64bit version of ObjectFlow, and the delay for older payware airports is that they are in the process of being updated to reference the new library? Or are the recently released airports not currently using any version of ObjectFlow to enable ORBX to put them to market, and then in-time they will be updated in a future patch when the new 64 bit version of ObjectFlow has tested satisfactorily?

 

I know you are not comfortable with publishing release timelines, but a rough estimate such as we are aiming to have existing payware airports updated to the work with P3Dv4 within 6 months of P3Dv4 being released; that not a concrete timeline, but it does provide an indication that they will be available again soon 

 

Have there been any delays due to issues identified against the older payware airports in testing .... thoroughly understandable given the change in architecture and that you're probably including additional features in the new library, and I'm sure your customers would understand this too, and if so, would it be feasible for the release of the older payware airports to be released without ObjectFlow as you recently did with the freeware airports, as this would allow people to enjoy their previously purchased items in some way, even if not with all the original features.

 

I'm not trying to rock the boat here; and I'm sure that one of your administrators will probably just close off this thread like they have with all the others; however as I said, a little communication goes a long way.

 

Keep up the good work, as a community we really appreciate your products... and for the record, if you were to release YPJT for v4 without ObjectFlow in the interim, I'd be very happy  

 

 

 

 

[Alex Goff]

Hello,

 

I am "the admin" that closed the thread like "all the others".

 

I inadvertantly locked the thread when I had intended to go back and edit my post to include the second line about who is working on the ObjectFlow update. It is was locked for about 3min before I went back and unlocked it after editing. The thread has been open for posting for about two hours since.

[TerryM]

Thanks for the update Alex; whether closed inadvertently or not, closure of these posts does seem to be the normal response, my point? ..... better communication is required

[Pukcip]

ORBX are an incredibly supportive supplier and we do need to keep in mind ORBX are doing this for free as the OP says but everything said was very eloquently put. Couldn't agree more.

[John Venema]

We do understand the frustration our customers must be feeling, some of who have over 120 airports invested with Orbx. It's also affecting sales revenue for us, so believe me we want to see ObjectFlow2 finished and working just as much as you all do.

 

The sitrep is that 90% of the functionality is there and we are chasing the last few bugs and also testing with P3Dv4.1, and LM have also addressed some core sim bugs in 4.1 which will help us as well.

 

Please bear in mind all these airports are fully functional in P3Dv3.x and our advice was to run both v3 and v4 in parallel until Orbx and other vendors had finished with porting work.

 

I don't want to sound too flippant but this outcry happens every time LM release a new version of their sim and unfortunately Orbx is the  only developer with hundreds of products to certify for any new platform, but our track record is solid - we've never charged for this work and we always deliver, although not necessarily in the customer's expected timeframe.

[TerryM]

Thanks for the update John.....

 

As stated in my post, we are all very appreciative of ORBX, the products your team produces are always of a very high quality, and we are extremely fortunate to also receive free upgrades and licensing across platforms at no extra cost unlike many other companies who require individual licenses for FSX and P3D; for example my favourite little C182 and Texan, and weather programs that I've just had to shell out for again.

 

I was merely pointing out that people are often unaware of the effort involved, and sometimes a little communication helps to manage peoples expectations and alleviate any frustration inevitably caused by seeing new products released, whilst having to wait for the ones they've already purchased to be upgraded.  

 

I'm sure that given the large number of airports developed over the years, the team at ORBX have their hands full bringing ObjectFlow2 to market; the level of testing required over so many airports is will no doubt be substantial, and of course its always a balancing act managing resources between creating the new products that we as your consumers crave, and the update of existing ones each time a platform changes; so thank you for taking the time to respond in person.

 

[Ephedrin]

55 minutes ago, tmarshall said:

for example my favourite little C182 and Texan,

 

Just to make that clear, not to start a new discussion: A2A don't charge a single Cent between v3 and v4! They do charge between FSX and P3D as pretty much every developer does who sells a certified aircraft, such as PMDG (Boeing), FSL (Airbus) or A2A (sponsored to reach the $50 mark)) but this is very much due to the EULA of Lockheed Martin, not due to personal greed. ORBX are selling sceneries which is their (and our) luck so they don't have to care THAT MUCH about entertainment or training purposes. Please keep that in mind..

 

Cheers,

Marc

[TerryM]

Ephedrin, I'm well aware; however you really are missing my point....

 

My point is that we are very fortunate that ORBX don't charge across platforms..... meaning FSX and P3D platforms, not meaning across versions as in P3D v3 and v4, (even though of course there is an underlying architectural change from 32bit to 64bit). They are perfectly entitled to charge us again, in the same way that A2A and the other companies currently do....but they choose not to, which is great for us as their customers.

My post was not an attack on ORBX, on A2A or any other company; it was an open to letter to the team at ORBX showing appreciation for their work and asking for some clarification to alleviate the frustration that some users are expressing via the forums, so please take it in the context in which it was meant. 

 

Terry

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

I think that is enough comment on this subject.

John has given the definitive answer and discussion of other companies' policies

in relation to entirely different types of product is not required,.

Thanks to all who contributed.