Low fps above forests (Fixed: use the TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_ tweaks)

[Guest J van E]

I run FSX on Vista 32 in DX9 mode, E6600, 8800GTX, 2 Mb Ram. When I fly above big forests, with autogen set to Very dense, fps drops to around 8. Weird thing is that around cities, with lots of houses, fps stays around 20...! I also have fps drops above trees with FSX default, but not this big... Usually it drops to 15 or something like that. But 8 is VERY low, specially since FTX autogen is supposed to be better.

Weird thing is that with DX10 fps stays high above trees and drops around cities, though not that big a drop. However, DX10 is unacceptable because I have constant random stutters/microfreezes that spoil it all: I just can't used to those pauses. Again, big shame because fps is great over trees...

I know I can lower autogen to Dense, but I understood lower autogen should mainly be used around big cities, while the forests should be fine... or am I mistaken? Anyone else has big fps drop above forests?

[gwolb]

Have never see that, I have the normal issues of FPS drops by large cities/airports but nothing like you are talking about, very strange. 

[hollow1slo]

J van E,

Exactly the same problem as you described, exactly the same computers specs (E6600, 8800gtx, 2 gb of RAM). My fps also drop to cca. 10 when flying over forests. I tried both OS, vista and Xp, same results. Any ideas?

Matej

[Guest J van E]

Ah, well, luckily I am not the only one!!! That's a relief somehow. But it IS strange because, as said, usually people have low fps above cities... And it's a big shame DX10 gives stutters otherwise I'd use that. I have a flight saved in mid-air above a forest (FTX): with DX10 fps stays at 25 (my maximum), no problems, but with DX9 it drops big time... Verrrrrrrrrry irritating...

EDIT:

I just did a test with fps at unlimited to see the real difference:

DX9 = 12 fps (that's indeed higher than the 8 I mentioned earlier)

DX10 = 42 fps

Again, I have this problem with default FSX too, but it seems to have gotten worse with FTX. But I am not sure if this is really FTX related, so...

EDIT 2:

I just used the next settings in my cfg:

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=2500

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=3000

So houses still at default but trees a lot lower (which is better than simply lowering autogen ingame because then also the houses will be less). This bumped fps up to about 18 - 19, which is quite nice.

I wonder though if this setting only changes the MAXIMUM amount of trees or if this setting halves the amount of trees. Example: when I fly above a spot where there are only 300 trees, will I still see 300 trees there, or will I see about 175? If this setting ONLY changes the MAXIMUM amount, I can live with that. But if this settings takes away trees even in areas where there aren't as much, than that would be a pity...

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi J,

I'm in the same category too; forest autogen is harder on my (lame) rig than city autogen. I do believe that the object density is greater on forest tiles because of the way the object placements are defined in the .agn files. That's why reducing maximum tree density (which is what TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=x does) is a good idea for systems like ours. In fact, a value of 2500 is still high considering that FS9 allowed for a maximum of 300.

Given that FSX can display up to 3000 buildings plus 3000 trees per sq km cell, and that having at least 50 sq km of autogen annotated cells in the user's viewshed is pretty normal the sim may have to deal with 200,000-300,000 objects just for the autogen. Pretty amazing stuff!

Cheers, Holger

[Guest J van E]

Yes, it IS amazing! And I do have to say that even with trees at 2500 there is enough to be seen. Still, I'd like to know which trees get eliminated when lowering this number. Only the trees in really dense areas? Or are lonely trees also removed? Does the option act as a 'hard limiter' or a 'wideband equalizer'?

EDIT:

I think 2500 is a good setting for my system. I hardly ever drop below 20 anymore, and all looks beatiful anyway! I just switched to the default FSX Cessna 172 because 1. it's good for fps, 2. the VC hardly blocks the view, giving me great panorama's on all sides (with my Track IR!) and 3. the speed is slow enough for sighsteeing but fast enough for getting somewhere too (the Ultralight is a bit too slow if you really want to get somewhere and the bar in the middle looks awfull, and the SF260 is too fast, really, and the VC blocks too much of the view).

I'm in FS-heaven now... As I said, beautifull panorama's with the C172 and fps is awesome! I am currently flying from YMML to YPKL and right now fps avereges above 40, even up to 55 for a while!!! It's just like being there. The realism is incredible. I have the AP on and can't stop looking around! I am REALLY up there in the air!

O yes, quite important: I renamed the reflection file for the C172, so I've got a clear view all around. That default reflection is way too much imho.

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi J,

to the best of my knowledge the two TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_ parameters are "hard limiters" meaning they provide a cut-off at the given setting without corresponding percentage changes at lower levels.

Cheers, Holger

[Guest J van E]

Yes, it indeed looks like it: during the flights I've done this evening with trees at 2500 it was still baffled by the incredible amount of trees there are! It seems there are a lot more trees than in default FSX, but maybe this simply has to do with this being Australia: I've never flown there before, so I can't tell what it looks like by default. But the amount of trees all over the place is staggering. I really love the way they are placed too, like alongside the roads, where they overlap it every now and then, making things look very realistic. Don't really know if this is FTX-sepcific, but I just noticed it and I didn't notice it before: usually roads stick out and are on top all the time. Not so with FTX.

I'd almost advice everyone (at least those with fps problems) to set trees to 2500: everything still looks awesome and fps is a lot better! I always felt the need or urge to use Extremely dense autogen, I just love it, but with FTX Very dense with trees at 2500 really is MORE than enough! Really!

(BTW My apologies if I am repeating things I've said before: I am also posting quite ecxited posts at Avsim and in my enthousiasm I sometimes forget what I said where...  )

[mstyles]

I'm in the same category too; forest autogen is harder on my (lame) rig than city autogen. I do believe that the object density is greater on forest tiles because of the way the object placements are defined in the .agn files. That's why reducing maximum tree density (which is what TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=x does) is a good idea for systems like ours. In fact, a value of 2500 is still high considering that FS9 allowed for a maximum of 300.

Maybe FSX needs a Tweak utility which encompasses:-

* Light size and halo type (ie the existing light tweaker)

* Max_Autogen_Trees and Max_Autogen_Building FSX.CFG setting

* Option for darker dirt road texture etc

I think the ability do some minor tweaking via a FTX tweak utility would be very handy.

[Wolter van der Spoel]

what you also can do is the following:

in the [scenery] section of your fsX.cfg add SmallPartRejectRadius=2 this will make the system to lock out objects smaller than 2 pixels in your viewfield, thus realising some extra frame rates the number is in relation to the pixel size of the objects so don't overdue it

[maxter]

EDIT 2:

I just used the next settings in my cfg:

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=2500

TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=3000

Guys, not having been much of a Tweaker ever, I was wondering if someone could please tell me which part of FSX.cfg these two entries are to be entered into.

With thanks,

EDIT:  Guys I found the answer on Google...  Thanks anyway.

Cheers,

[Wolter van der Spoel]

maxter,

I have attached my fsX.cfg

open it with notepad, open your fsx.cfg in another window, put 'm side by side and look at the differences there are a number of things added and or the value changed to get most out of the old crate I'm running here at the moment

have fun

[maxter]

Thanks Wolter, very much appreciated.

Cheers

[mstyles]

Guys, not having been much of a Tweaker ever, I was wondering if someone could please tell me which part of FSX.cfg these two entries are to be entered into.

This is why I think there needs to be a FTX tweaker, to make things easy to tweak!  I think its important to stop some people from complaining unfairly about FTX, at least they can be told to try some tweaks via the FTX tweaker.  Good for customer support I reckon.  Oh, it should have a "Reset to Default" button so that tweaks can be reset to the default "out of the box" values.

[Guest J van E]

Guys, not having been much of a Tweaker ever, I was wondering if someone could please tell me which part of FSX.cfg these two entries are to be entered into.

EDIT:  Guys I found the answer on Google...  Thanks anyway.

Yes, I should have added that right away, sorry! For those who don't want to Google: you have to enter these values in the [TERRAIN] section.

This is why I think there needs to be a FTX tweaker, to make things easy to tweak!  I think its important to stop some people from complaining unfairly about FTX, at least they can be told to try some tweaks via the FTX tweaker.  Good for customer support I reckon.  Oh, it should have a "Reset to Default" button so that tweaks can be reset to the default "out of the box" values.

Nice idea, but you can't expect Orbx to make a free tweaker utility for stuff that has nothing to do with FTX. The Light tweaker is already very nice and that has to do with FTX! But changing values like TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL and/or other tweaks have nothing to do with FTX but FSX. You really should ask MS/Aces this question.

[markwlee]

I agree with J van E.  Why should OrbX make a tweaker for FSX?  It's Aces' job - if anyone's.  Maybe some are more optimistic about getting help from OrbX.

[mstyles]

Nice idea, but you can't expect Orbx to make a free tweaker utility for stuff that has nothing to do with FTX. The Light tweaker is already very nice and that has to do with FTX! But changing values like TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL and/or other tweaks have nothing to do with FTX but FSX. You really should ask MS/Aces this question.

Ok, I tweaked it "by hand" anyway. 

[Wolter van der Spoel]

there is a very good tweaktool available for fsX this is called flusifix there is at this moment one drawback and that is it's in German, no disrespect ment to our German flightsimmers, I know that there is beeing worked on an English version alltough I don't know about a release date for that one.

oh and for the record it's free~donationware

[Jay Kae]

It is not our job to tweak customer's computers, there is a whole great range of wonderful tweak products right here

http://www.tweakfs.com/store/index.php?cPath=23&osCsid=fe89389e0b5ba62e4b1ed172c4c547b0

[John Venema]

I've put up a little tuning guide here: http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=1410.0