ANSWERED Deception of Orbx & sim 720

[spence]

I first posted on the Sim720 forum: Black Square Shadows Traversing with time of Day

I also contacted Orbx & Flightsim store about the problem.

Russ White from Orbx said in his email to me

It would appear that the developers of Shoreham (Sim720) have left active shadows on an element of the light or placing template. Unfortunately, because i have nothing to do with Shoreham or Sim720, i wont be able to fix anything. But i will bring your original support thread to the teams attention.

 

After this I contacted Flight sim store who supplied the product they said:

FEB 12, 2014 | 12:07PM EST
Adrian replied:

Hello Spence,

I have received an email from Orbx management and which the have denied your request for a refund (as is their policy with download products) they have informed me that they are very happy to look into correcting the issue for you. Can you please post a support topic at the Orbx Support Forums linked below and provide me with the link to your post. I will then forward the link to Orbx and they will either have Sim720 look into correcting the issue, or have one of their own developers do the same.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Kind Regards,

Adrian Lehmann

 

Recontacted Orbx Russ White stated:

Senior Developer

•  
• Orbx Developer
• 3,310 posts

• LocationSouthampton, England

Sent 11 February 2014 - 10:02 AM

Sim720 no longer develop products for Orbx, so i'm not sure what will happen here, i have made a thread about your problem in the private forums here but there is nothing more i can personally do.

Sorry i cant be the bearer of better news, if it was one of my airports i could work on a fix for you. If the problem is too distracting, a temporary fix would be to turn of the ground scenery shadows option in your FSX display settings menu.

Russ.

 

I contacted Sim 720 Paul Webster replIed:

Paul Webster

Staff

• 
• 290 posts

Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:52 AM

{C}

Hi,

This is an Orbx product and as such you need to contact Orbx on there forum for support however i believe the answer will be "unchecking the shadows feature in FSX" as stated in the user guide.

Paul

 

Orbx replied when I re asked the question about who's responsibilty it is:

 

Senior Developer

• Orbx Developer
• 3,310 posts

• LocationSouthampton, England

Sent 21 February 2014 - 09:22 PM

Hi Spence,

 

To add a little context to the information you have been given, i would say that exemptions from refunds are made becuase it's very difficult to develop scenery products for a flight simulator that each individual has set up a slightly different way. Some users will experience no difficulties while others will run into problems, this is due to the multitude of variations from user to user. Such variations include platfrom, be it FSX or P3D, direct X mode 9 or 10, the users video card type and driver, other 3rd party products the user may have installed that potentially clash with our scenery...etc etc. Because of all these differences problems will be experienced by some users with every product, it's through the support of the products that we try to change the problem into a cure, this way the user can enjoy their purchase and there are no need for refunds.

 

However, this process relies on the developer properly supporting the product and seeing as no one has replied to me post about your issue i would assume that Sim720 (the developer) is no longer operational and therefore cannot support or fix the product.

 

It may be worth you going to the Sim720 website directly and asking on their forums what the situation is (if they are still in operation).

 

Russ.

 

Dear reader of this topic : Are you getting a feel for what is going on here?

 

Yesterday Russ White said on email:

 

Senior Developer

• Orbx Developer
• 3,310 posts

• LocationSouthampton, England

Sent Yesterday, 11:27 AM

I'm sorry to hear that Spence, it's an unfortunate responce from Sim720 and one they didnt think through. The problem is, no one from Orbx can alter their content to fix the issue because they have all the working files on their systems, without access to their working files Orbx cannot fix any issues with their product(s)

 

Russ.

 

And a final responce from Paul Webster yesterday:

 

Paul Webster

Staff

•  
•  
• 
• 290 posts

Posted Yesterday, 04:18 PM

Hi,

At the end of our contract with Orbx we had to hand over all source files to Orbx and remove them from our server, which we complied with. So only Orbx can supply the fix.

Paul

------------------------------------------------------------

 

This was taken from ORBX web forum this year although Paul has claimed he has nolonger has any professional contact with Orbx connected to FSX Add-ons.

Check out the Date of this post.

 

Paul Webster

UK Dev Team

• Members
• 1,416 posts

• LocationHavant, uk

Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:54 AM

Hi,

First re-install the latest Orbx Libs will fix the 2 FTX Global problem, always do this after an install.
I would install SCO and set FTX Central to Europe and go check an airport (EGPO for example), if you still have trees then do a search on you fsx folder for that airports - EGPO and see if any files show up other than in the SCO folders, if they do they will need to be disabled. My guess is its Traffic 360 which is causing the problem.

Paul

• Unlike

Cheers,
Paul
SIM720
No support is given via PM message.

 

So Fellow Members in your opinion Is there a reason for all of the above & do you think I have been treated fairly?

Note my content to them has reamined polite throughout I did not paste them in because of the length of this topic. Any doubts please ask & I will send. to you.

 

Personally I am completely jacked off. from what started as a my simple forum question.

[Bruce Hamilton]

Like Paul Webster said in his reply, you need to uncheck your scenery shadows.  Bring up display settings and click the scenery tab, box is on the right below the sliders.

[spence]

Hi Bruce, Thanks for your reply.

The temporary action is not disputed bruce in anyway.

The enquiry was based around the begining being informed of Active shadows being left in the program which I believe is a placement tool by Sim 720 the designers of Shoreham airport. and because of this Orbx could not create a fix/patch.as they didnt have the system files.

Sim 720 said they could not create a fix/patch because Orbx had the system files.?

But more importantly if you read the comments throughly they highlight blame from one organisation to the other when in fact as my post shows they are one of the same. If you cease to be a developer for a company (Orbx) you cease all. "Conflict of interest" unless you have created a smoke screen by raising another company "Sim 720".

But I was informed that a fix would not happen by both Orbx & Sim720 for business interest reasons only, They blamed each other and there is no each other. I now beleive Sim 720 is Orbx and vice versa. Why ? is the answer I am now looking for? Its about company integrity if they want  your & my business.

Look at my original post on both sites.

 

Spence.

Thanks again Bruce for your interest and reading my post.

[Snave]

So, where are you system specs? And FSX .cfg?

 

And ALL relevant order numbers...

[Alex Goff]

Hi Spence,

 

I think you've been treated quite fairly, I'm not seeing where the unfair treatment begins. However I do think it quite rude to post private conversations but if you're going to do so, you should at least post what you have said as well.

 

Now moving forward to your other statements. Orbx and Sim720 have not, are not, and will not become the same entity. Sim720 was a third party contracted for development from 2012 through 2013. They operated out of their own office in the UK under their own management. Orbx does not have a central office, most of us never saw the Sim720 office, and we operated independently through the duration of the contract. I don't even have a passport to go to the UK office! So you can draw your own conclusions, but there are currently no Sim720 developers active at Orbx. They are all either still with Sim720 or have departed since the contract ended and communication ceased. Paul Webster does not have a contract with Orbx anymore, I'm not sure if he is still at Sim720, dates on private messages have nothing to do with that. When you sent Paul a PM it likely forwarded a copy to his email inbox, he saw it, and logged in to give you a response on his own time. 

 

As for creating a patch... I'm not aware of any source material from Sim720 that resides on our file servers. It's possible the files were burnt to a DVD and are not online. But after combing through our servers I'm not finding the source material that Paul referenced.

 

Now, since there are no more smoke and mirror conspiracies the straight forward answer is that unless the source material from Sim720 can be located, perhaps one of our developers has it on a hard drive or DVD and it is not online, there is no way we can create a patch. Furthermore we need screenshots as I'm not even entirely clear on the support issue. If it's a problem with a model, perhaps it can be fixed without the source material but otherwise unlikely.

 

Regards,

 

Alex

[spence]

Hi Snave Thanks for your questions 

Quote "So, where are you system specs? And FSX .cfg?"

 

"And ALL relevant order numbers"

 

With respect Snave you should find these on my original posting  

Black Square patches FTX : EU EGKA Shoreham Airport

but without the FSX cfg.

 

Hope this helps.

Have a great day.

Kind regards.

[spence]

Alex thanks for your reply.

I take on board what you have said.

It is unfortunate that to ask on a members forum albeit Orbx or Sim 720 it makes no difference !!  a question about any newly purchased product wherein a member is given contradicting information about who owns that product.. 

 

An Orbx team member gave the information about the probable cause of the Black square shadows with in the program and as a result, because it was clearly stated it was not possible for Orbx to generate a fix, I would naturally turn to those whom I was informed created the program to obtain a fix. 

 

Alex it is that simple.

What has surfaced after that is information contradicting both Orbx & sim 720 with me and my stupid question in the middle.

Again I did not ask for that in my request for assistance. But nevertheless I got what I posted today for you to view from frustration. So someone was not doing there level best to assist as the forums are designed to do,

but leave me to ask the right questions to find out that something between you guys is not quite right. 

Your organisations structure means very little to all members including me. we just hope there is sufficient accommodating support when we need it. not the run-around I have had.

 

Please remember Alex all I requested was posted on this forum                         Black Square patches FTX : EU EGKA Shoreham Airport. 

If there is anything in that original 1st post you can see that was asking for the ins and outs of Orbx I would be happy to learn from you. 

​If I cannot expect concise information on the forum from Orbx Experts of their field of expertise  then I've lost before I ask a question and this means no support. 

 

But I don't want to be enrolled in its them or its us scenario.

At the end of the day from a consumer point of view, If Orbx is on the label its nobody else's product.......................................If it is............ then that's called piracy !! which is illegal. 

 

As for being treated fairly I remain to be convinced, as Paul Webster acting on behalf or Orbx on the 6th of January 2014 doesn't look like he's finished acting as an Orbx developer as that post is on the Orbx forum with your company symbol That post was taken from the Orbx forum to another forum member.

So if he is as you say no longer a member in any capacity I would not expect to see a late post from 2014 to a member of Orbx whom asked a likewise question, especially when he left in 2012/13.But that's not important.

 

Both Orbx & Sim 720 have stated "Not their responsibility for Shoreham.airport". So how does any future customer of this product including myself receive support? If at Orbx don't have the "System Files"  and neither do Sim 720 how do you propose future fixes?

 

So where could I find a intentional resolve to what could still be a Active shadows placement tool in the program? There is as much responsibility on Orbx's to retain its professional approach as you would expect courteousness/respect from the members/users of the forum.

 

Finally, two thing I do respect, one is that Orbx  left this post on the forum. and secondly  for the courteousness of Russ White "Development Team, I do believe he was doing his level best, but he too claimed its frustrating..

 

As for going forward, Its up to Orbx the forum and all members to ensure no one is misled and given careless information which leaves me only to repeat my request:- 

How to obtain a fix to Shoreham without the need to reduce FSX settings to accommodate the add-on. I would prefer to increase settings as the requirement with most of the recently produced High definition airports/airfields produced by Orbx which I have purchased with great success and enjoyment.

 

Kindest regards & respect.

sorry it was a long reply.

Spence

[Ed Correia]

Hi Spence,

 

The source files from Sim720 are sitting on my desk in a portable hard drive. I am in possession of it for the recompiling of the EU regions for P3Dv2 and it also contains the airport source files.

 

I have had a look at the files and have recompiled the library to remove those shadows. Just need to do some quick checks if it functions all OK and I will post it here.

[spence]

Hi ED.

Thank you for your reply.

Ed for me certainly, you have redeemed the issue which is all I hoped for & that I asked for at the start.

I appreciate the update information, but there is no hurry as a resolve has been offered I am happy to wait as long as it takes. Its a better answer than NO. 

 

I apologise to those concerned unreservedly if feelings I have jumped on. 

 The genuine issue reported through the forums as Black square shadows traversing in Shoreham airport I thought was a valid reason to ask you guys for assistance and as a similar issue for the same airport had been posted before I didn't expect it to be a problem.

 

I know that Russell White "Orbx developer" will be a little Mmmm. ok a lot annoyed with me for the exposure today. I will try to offer my apologies direct.

 

My extended thanks to you Ed for dealing with this.

 

kindest regards

 

Spence ( All's well that end's well.)

[Ian Routley]

Just a point of decorum, Spence.

Choose less inflammatory titles for your threads.

An inflammatory title stands an excellent chance of being locked or binned. Something to remember if you post future support topics.

Kudos to the team for their patience and courtesy.

It is a shame that Russ has been admonished for volunteering help to you. I am sure that won't happen again. Something else to consider.

[John Venema]

Spence, you should have stopped your campaign of defamatory nonsense when you received a reply from FSS that indicated Orbx would fix the problem in a patch. Instead, you continued to harass both Russ and Sim720 when it would have been more prudent to simply wait for the patch that was promised.

Orbx has all the Sim720 source files, it would be extremely foolish of us to contract an outsourced supplier to create content that we cannot maintain.

In future, if you wish to remain a valued member of these support forums, please change your approach as to how you seek support. And your apologies are accepted.

This topic is now locked, that's enough BS for today.