Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Dear All I would like opinions (if you would all be so kind) on what my next PC Upgrade should be? Set in stone are (I already own these) is an OCZ Vertex 3 480g (or 512g can't remember) SSD, GTX 780 Card (on its way), H80 cooling and 1200watt PSU. Should I go 6 core proc or the new Hawell soon to be released; which Mobo and Which RAM? Please can you give reasons for choice of either 6 core or 4 Core please? Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Can't answer your question but here's a thread from Avsim that might intrest you before deciding wether to go with the haswell or not.. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/409849-haswell-reviews-are-out-as-bad-overclocker-as-ivybridge/#entry2684702 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Can't answer your question but here's a thread from Avsim that might intrest you before deciding wether to go with the haswell or not.. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/409849-haswell-reviews-are-out-as-bad-overclocker-as-ivybridge/#entry2684702 Thank you I will read with great interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Anyone? I know there are some VERY clever simmers out there - advice appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolter van der Spoel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 looking at all the different stuff that's been plastered all over the various places I think I'd go with a 2700K, still gives the best bang for the buck, have a peek at my specs, H100 cooler works a treat here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 It's kinda hard to give people advice on how to spend their well earned money. If you plan only to use it for FSX only you probably know that a Sandy/Ivybridge i5 quadcore k processor would do the job just fine and you might save some money going with that. But thinking a little ahead and if sometime in the future you decide to migrate to Prepar3d V2 wich will take advantage of the latest and greatest technology, I would go for more cores and maybe Haswell... For RAM I would go for atleast 1600Mhz or faster What mobo's are the best I have no idea, maybe others could chime in on that, but this is all the advice I can give you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 GTX780 IMO would be complete overkill, unless you're going to use your rig for something else other than FSX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 looking at all the different stuff that's been plastered all over the various places I think I'd go with a 2700K, still gives the best bang for the buck, have a peek at my specs, H100 cooler works a treat here Thank you Wolter - Appreciated. What would you suggest (even if it is the same proc) forgetting the 'buck' (within reason, say £250-£600)? Thanks Again GTX780 IMO would be complete overkill, unless you're going to use your rig for something else other than FSX. Hi Howard FSX ONLY here. The GTX 780 is ordered (Didnt get on with the Titan - no idea why but it gave stutters!); however I am going to run 3 projectors with 3 FSX Views giving 180 degrees FOV - I would be interested if you think this card still may be over kill - as we all know FSX is CPU bound but some people do mention 'Fill Rate' whatever the hell that really means? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolter van der Spoel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 not sure what the prices are where you are, here they are around the 260 Euro's have a peek here => http://tweakers.net/categorie/46/processors/producten/#filter:q1ZKKkrMS_FMKVayijY0jNVRyi9KSS1yy0zNSVGyUiooyswqVtIB0cmpvpl5SlYGOkrFBanJbpk5JalFQE3VSsaGILIsMQdogpKJsaWZUmytjpKxEYqoBVCwthYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 It's kinda hard to give people advice on how to spend their well earned money. If you plan only to use it for FSX only you probably know that a Sandy/Ivybridge i5 quadcore k processor would do the job just fine and you might save some money going with that. But thinking a little ahead and if sometime in the future you decide to migrate to Prepar3d V2 wich will take advantage of the latest and greatest technology, I would go for more cores and maybe Haswell... For RAM I would go for atleast 1600Mhz or faster What mobo's are the best I have no idea, maybe others could chime in on that, but this is all the advice I can give you.. Hi Kaboki I have a few PC's most I72600k running at 4.8ghz - I am trying to better this for FSX If it is possible that is? Thanks for the note on ram - Appreciated not sure what the prices are where you are, here they are around the 260 Euro's have a peek here => http://tweakers.net/categorie/46/processors/producten/#filter:q1ZKKkrMS_FMKVayijY0jNVRyi9KSS1yy0zNSVGyUiooyswqVtIB0cmpvpl5SlYGOkrFBanJbpk5JalFQE3VSsaGILIsMQdogpKJsaWZUmytjpKxEYqoBVCwthYA Hi Again Wolter I think we are at cross wires! Given the aforementioned budget would the 2700k still be your first choice? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hi Kaboki I have a few PC's most I72600k running at 4.8ghz - I am trying to better this for FSX If it is possible that is? Thanks for the note on ram - Appreciated Wow, If you have I7 2600K overclocked to 4.8Ghz and only gonna use it for FSX, why upgrade? I don't think you can get any more performance in FSX by upgrading... You seem to already have a great FSX processor and even managed to clock it to 4.8Ghz, what more do you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Wow, If you have I7 2600K overclocked to 4.8Ghz and only gonna use it for FSX, why upgrade? I don't think you can get any more performance in FSX by upgrading... You seem to already have a great FSX processor and even managed to clock it to 4.8Ghz, what more do you want Hi Kaboki I have been advised a 6 core will give me more perf so any little bit more to me is valuble - if there is another proc that will give me say 4-5 more fps then that would be what I want - the question is do you think such a proc exists? This thread is tending to confirm my suspicions however if there is an alternitive (even at a 'cost') that would be what I want. Please let me explain that I do not have knowlege beyond the I7 2600 and 2700K procs - i just do not want to be missing a trick. If you had a £600 budget would you still choose the i72600k? Thank you for your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hi Kaboki I have been advised a 6 core will give me more perf so any little bit more to me is valuble - if there is another proc that will give me say 4-5 more fps then that would be what I want - the question is do you think such a proc exists? This thread is tending to confirm my suspicions however if there is an alternitive (even at a 'cost') that would be what I want. Please let me explain that I do not have knowlege beyond the I7 2600 and 2700K procs - i just do not want to be missing a trick. If you had a £600 budget would you still choose the i72600k? Well there are people that claim a six core is giving them more smoothness, but the general concensus is that having more than 4 cores in FSX doesn't do shit. However If I had the budget I would go for something newer(Haswell maybe since it's the latest architecture), but not with FSX in mind, only because someday I might get to use those extra cores and newer technology in a better sim platform(PreparV2 maybe). But for FSX I don't think you can get much further, except if you manage to push the overclock even higher...(and getting into the dark arts of tweaking) As a sidenote: There are these Extreme edition CPU's that costs a lot of money(personally I think the cost is not worth the slight increase in performance), not sure how much getting one of those will increase FSX performance, but If your rich and have a lot off money to throw out the window they might be an option? Maybe someone that has one of these Extreme editions could comment, I would be interested myself how these perform in FSX versus the more ordinary editions...(I have heard that they are more friendly to higher overclocks than the ordinary editions ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Well there are people that claim a six core is giving them more smoothness, but the general concensus is that having more than 4 cores in FSX doesn't do shit. However If I had the budget I would go for something newer(Haswell maybe since it's the latest architecture), but not with FSX in mind, only because someday I might get to use those extra cores and newer technology in a better sim platform(PreparV2 maybe). But for FSX I don't think you can get much further, except if you manage to push the overclock even higher...(and getting into the dark arts of tweaking) . Thank you Kaboki With this in mind I am going to find a 6 core that will OC above 4.6 (if such exists) if you know of one please let me know Thanks for your patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Im not an overclock expert but I think you should be able to overclock a 6 core above 4.6Ghz, but don't take all my advice to seriously and maybe wait until others also have made some comments before making your final decision, as I might be wrong... You should have one more thing in mind before deciding...The newer chips are harder to clock if you're not de'lidding them... I would advice you to go too the Avsim hardware forums and ask some questions before taking your final decision as there are a lot more experts there that have alot more knowledge on these things... Edit: Regarding GPU's. Some interesting findings about the Nvidia GTX Titan GPU and FSX http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsxp3d-gpu-comparison-aka-gtx-titan-for-fsx-test/ Before I read that I was under the impression that getting better GPU's wouldn't do much with FSX, but after reading these tests and discoveries by Kosta, It has opened my eyes a little regarding GPU and FSX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolter van der Spoel Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hi Andrew, to answer your question, yes I would stick to the 2700K a good Z77 board O'Clock it to 4,8GHz, the fastest 780 card, a couple of fast 840 pro SSD's, the best liquid cooler system available, the fastest RAM and have peace with it, if you only running fsX, now the deal changes when you hop on the P3D bandwagon, although wondering as to when the V2 gets to see the light of day, so far they are guarding any info about it as a state secret and as I'm not a clairvoyant .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If you have not ordered the ram yet, buy low latency ram over high bandwidth.. the lower the better for the sim, the sim wont benifit in the way of extra frames per second but it can help with memory saturation, bottle necking in read write calls with fsx and textures, it can also help in other ways with the sim. I have read that Intel cpu's dont benifit to much from ultra high bandwidth out side of a bench mark app.. so 1600mhz or better with cas6 ( 6-6-6 timings ) is what i would get but they are rare and not many places stock or sell them and they cost extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Im not an overclock expert but I think you should be able to overclock a 6 core above 4.6Ghz, but don't take all my advice to seriously and maybe wait until others also have made some comments before making your final decision, as I might be wrong... You should have one more thing in mind before deciding...The newer chips are harder to clock if you're not de'lidding them... I would advice you to go too the Avsim hardware forums and ask some questions before taking your final decision as there are a lot more experts there that have alot more knowledge on these things... Edit: Regarding GPU's. Some interesting findings about the Nvidia GTX Titan GPU and FSX http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsxp3d-gpu-comparison-aka-gtx-titan-for-fsx-test/ Before I read that I was under the impression that getting better GPU's wouldn't do much with FSX, but after reading these tests and discoveries by Kosta, It has opened my eyes a little regarding GPU and FSX. Hi Kaboki I have read Kostas test report and indeed asked his advice too. It seems I have plenty to consider now and I thank all of you for all your help - I feel more confident now. If you have not ordered the ram yet, buy low latency ram over high bandwidth.. the lower the better for the sim, the sim wont benifit in the way of extra frames per second but it can help with memory saturation, bottle necking in read write calls with fsx and textures, it can also help in other ways with the sim. I have read that Intel cpu's dont benifit to much from ultra high bandwidth out side of a bench mark app.. so 1600mhz or better with cas6 ( 6-6-6 timings ) is what i would get but they are rare and not many places stock or sell them and they cost extra. Hi Gandy You have cleared up some doubts I had when working through the memory thing - your post was very useful to me; very useful indeed Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Yeah, those RAM latency things are also very important...forgot to mention that. That's where i failed when I upgraded my system, didn't know about them before I already had bought new RAM . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hi Andrew,to answer your question, yes I would stick to the 2700K a good Z77 board O'Clock it to 4,8GHz, the fastest 780 card, a couple of fast 840 pro SSD's, the best liquid cooler system available, the fastest RAM and have peace with it, if you only running fsX, now the deal changes when you hop on the P3D bandwagon, although wondering as to when the V2 gets to see the light of day, so far they are guarding any info about it as a state secret and as I'm not a clairvoyant .................. Hi Wolter Yes I am referring to FSX, when Prepar3d is out I will re evaluate then, for the time being I am working on FSX. I think I will upgrade my ram and buy a Samsung SSD for the 2600k machine, build a new 6 core with the spares I have and my new learned knowledge; then put them side by side and see once and for all! Thank you everyone Yeah, those RAM latency things are also very important...forgot to mention that. That's where i failed when I upgraded my system, didn't know about them before I already had bought new RAM . So much to learn - I'm glad it's all here though for reference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennyson Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Andrew, If this is still the rig that you are going to run 3 projectors from, then it would be advantageous to put that out there firstly. There is a lot of FSX/FTX experience here, but it's not a forum of cockpit builders, whereby the specs are slightly different. As I had previously explained to you, the GTX 780 would be complete overkill for many of the simmers here, who fly with one single screen or maybe triple head2go on 3 x 24" monitors, for example. The GTX780, however, is the perfect choice, if you are going to run an avionics suite and three projectors off it. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Good point Frank Had a feeling that this guy was into something bigger , that's why I adviced him also too go to Avsim as there are more "expertise" over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Andrew, If this is still the rig that you are going to run 3 projectors from, then it would be advantageous to put that out there firstly. There is a lot of FSX/FTX experience here, but it's not a forum of cockpit builders, whereby the specs are slightly different. As I had previously explained to you, the GTX 780 would be complete overkill for many of the simmers here, who fly with one single screen or maybe triple head2go on 3 x 24" monitors, for example. The GTX780, however, is the perfect choice, if you are going to run an avionics suite and three projectors off it. Frank Hi Frank In hindsight I should have been more explicit for the use of my new rig - It would have been clearer! I can only appologise to all who have been so courteous to help with advice. SO: I have settled for the 6 core proc and the 780 - this will be running 3 projectors and warping softare only - avionics can be run off my i7 PC'S which will be more than enough for that. I have had some advice from kosta that implies you are right on the money with your advice; and also some dialog on Cockpitbuilders .com Thank you to all for your help - Greatly appreciated Good point Frank Had a feeling that this guy was into something bigger , that's why I adviced him also too go to Avsim as there are more "expertise" over there. Sorry for any confusion AND more importantly thank you for your advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 If i had the spare money i would also go for a 6 core intel cpu as it will provide the best smoothness over a 4 core as you really want smoothness more than anything, plenty of people who use quad cores will tell you that 6 cores is a waste of money and you wont get extra frames etc.. while it is true you wont get extra frames ( well maybe 1 or 2 more but it would be small ) the extra cores will help with scenery loading and smoothness of loading and reducing the chance of stutters. This will allow you to experiment with the fiber frame time fraction settings which is where you can get a boost of fps from allowing you to run with higher settings overall at addon airports etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 If i had the spare money i would also go for a 6 core intel cpu as it will provide the best smoothness over a 4 core as you really want smoothness more than anything, plenty of people who use quad cores will tell you that 6 cores is a waste of money and you wont get extra frames etc.. while it is true you wont get extra frames ( well maybe 1 or 2 more but it would be small ) the extra cores will help with scenery loading and smoothness of loading and reducing the chance of stutters. This will allow you to experiment with the fiber frame time fraction settings which is where you can get a boost of fps from allowing you to run with higher settings overall at addon airports etc.. I'm quite open minded, and what you're saying about the six core sounds interesting... What Affinetymask setting would you use on the six core to get all cores working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandy Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 AffinityMask=62 would leave the first core free ( well sort of ) on a six core cpu allowing you to use the first core for things like weather addons and trackir if you use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboki Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Thanks, I'll do some more research and maybe i'll consider a 6 core next time I upgrade I might even go crazy and buy the Extreme edition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 737 Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 If i had the spare money i would also go for a 6 core intel cpu as it will provide the best smoothness over a 4 core as you really want smoothness more than anything, plenty of people who use quad cores will tell you that 6 cores is a waste of money and you wont get extra frames etc.. while it is true you wont get extra frames ( well maybe 1 or 2 more but it would be small ) the extra cores will help with scenery loading and smoothness of loading and reducing the chance of stutters. This will allow you to experiment with the fiber frame time fraction settings which is where you can get a boost of fps from allowing you to run with higher settings overall at addon airports etc.. Makes sense; this is the sort of post that makes this hobby great - thank you for sharing Gandy Thanks all I'm quite open minded, and what you're saying about the six core sounds interesting... What Affinetymask setting would you use on the six core to get all cores working? Very good question Thanks, I'll do some more research and maybe i'll consider a 6 core next time I upgrade I might even go crazy and buy the Extreme edition Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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