John Venema Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 (Edit: direct link to torrent removed based on expert advice) That link was one of many on the internet, where Orbx's property has been stolen and shared. To be honest, there's probably very little we can do to stop these kids who get a kick out of downloading warez while daddy pays their internet access fees, but at the end of the day it is taking money from Orbx and severely impacting our revenues. If you know someone who is using a warezed FTX, please tell them to be responsible and purchase a copy. We're talking about products that cost less than an evening meal. Our estimates are that for every copy of FTX sold, there's about 2-3 stolen. That hurts us, and will hurt our customers in the long run because we are being robbed of revenue to continue development at the pace we'd like to. The example above even includes the just-released FTX AI FREEWARE! That's right, they are uploading something already free, onto a pirate site. Go figure out how smart these kids are? However, what really irks us is that those same people who rip the warezed FTX have the gaul to register here on these forums and post support questions, sometimes very cleverly disguised in non-support forums. The other issue is that the FSS wrapper is pretty uncrackable, so what you're seeing in these "compilations" are people who re-assemble FTX based on how it is placed on their HD, yet they miss critical housekeeping files and routines which are part of the installer. The result is anyone installing these "hacked" FTX releases will more than likely do some damage to their FSX installations and then come bleating here for thinly veiled support requests. To them I say, whatever those hacked versions do to your setups, you deserve it. No order number - no support - simple as that. Orbx does not tolerate, will not accept, and takes a DIM VIEW of anyone who steals our intellectual property. Those individuals who are identified as using pirated FTX will be dealt with legally and I can assure (no, I promise you), that sites who blatantly steal our software and share it around will also be under pressure from us both legal and through other means. /rant over. Just a bit pissed off about this after the work we've put in over the past 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit Chucker Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 It's pretty rotten to see this kind of stuff. They obviously don't realise that by purchasing they are helping guarantee further great products and rewarding those who have worked long and hard. At least the honest among us can wear our FTX supporter badges with pride and help look forward to the next great additions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drwalker Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 They are not clever. They are not L337 haxors. They are criminals pure and simple. I wish there was a piece of code you could place in your downloads that senses if the software is not properly authorised/activated and sends the offending IP address off to you. (Microsoft may be able to give you a hand with this ). What I also dont understand is the mentality of the idiot who must have paid for your software and subsequently made it available to these idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit Chucker Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Probably thinks he's a hero to his 'mates'.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendigoandy Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Maybe someone might download one of these "pirated copies" and add a wee little virus hidden well in to it, then re-post it ! Hack the hackers ! If you know what I mean . I hear the AV08 virus in a nasty peace of work !! ....mmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kae Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I wish it was legal to do so, I have to back John up 100%, no ordernumber, no support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 That link makes some disappointing reading! Really disheartening to see this sort of stuff going on! Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhalf Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Yeah look in the 80's I went to school and swapped commodore 64 and Amiga stuff. No doubt these kids get the same kick as I did, however things are obviously different these days. It's a such a shame these kids are losers and they don't even realise. Shame we all can just log onto the site and spam the shit outta them maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 It is COMPETELY UNNECESSARY and foolish to put a direct link to a warez download of the product in the original post. My order numbers: Blue: 3328 Gold: 7130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kae Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Pull your head in Thommo, I won't say it again EDIT: Thank you for editing your post Thommo, looks a lot nicer now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Apologies, I editted the language in my original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 It is COMPETELY UNNECESSARY and foolish to put a direct link to a warez download of the product in the original post. My order numbers: Blue: 3328 Gold: 7130 Oh, sorry.. you mean people who want to steal stuff don't know how to find warez? And us posting a link is foolish? Geez.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 This is very disappointing and sadly a fact of life on the Internet. I have resisted the need to include my purchase numbers on the grounds that I'd like to think that you ORBX and everyone else in this community would speak to me even if I didn't include them. @Thommo, so far this place has been a haven on the Internet for balanced and mature (and at time passionate) discussion. Please respect that. This however is a call to arms, I'll wear my colours on my sig. Butch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbird Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 agree with tommo Jay proberly not the best idea. I understand the dev team is pissed but as they say it's a part of life. All as i know is i thought it was worth buying and have not looked back. PS YMML is amazing only if i had the pc to run it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinc Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Did anyone who took a look at the link John posted follow the instigator "papazoff" and see who else he's been ripping off? Its a who's who of the simming world...unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kae Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 That is ok Thommo @cbird: As John said, all you have to do is a simple google search, we just put up a link as an example. @Everyone: Piracy hurts big companies but it REALLY hurts and hits home when it is a small company like Orbx, also what a lot of people do not realise is that when you steal the software a small company might have to call it a day and ALL the hard work of the last... God knows how long ... is gone with the wind, we do not want that do we guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Last I'll say, but I wouldn't link because it could potentially increase the page rank of that page in Google search results, particularly coming from this site. Anyway, I'm a big fan and a paying customer. Don't be discouraged and keep up the good work! My order numbers: Blue: 3328 Gold: 7130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty073 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I was just looking through the comments on that site about install issues. I felt like joining and just sending them this way it would be good for a laugh shooting them down when they ask for support. Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamnugget Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 The other day the missus was chatting with her sister on line and noticed she was listening to a song on her PC that we were also listening to....we mentioned we just bought it (Itunes), and she says why not just go to Limewire, and we said we like to do things the old fashioned way.... Have never got into the bit-torrent thing, it confuses me and I dont like the risk of all the nasties out there...especially when you try and do a seach for one thing and end up with all sorts of stuff . I'm pretty sure most people here are genuine.....Should have gone with my initial suggestion when all this started and implanted a virus that can only be deleted upon regular registration . I guess you guys would have expected some piracy issues, it was raised I think just prior to release, maybe look at imbedding some code into the program that can be kept in check somehow with updates and re-registration (proof of ownership) with our initial codes to allow updates....I dont know just thinking out aloud...its late...I go bed now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
737-8FE Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 These products Orbx produces are at a very reasonable price and for the support you get along with it as well as the amazing product itself they are 100% worth it. Seeing such an essential addon like FTX on a pirate site is quite disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Mason Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I had no idea about bit torrents until a few months ago when a mate of mine was telling me he downloaded Underbelly that way and it took him about 5 days to download, I asked him why it took so long and he explained other "seeders" had to be online to host the download so not only are they posting the free stuff but other people who download it are supporting the habits by "seeding" for others. If putting a virus in the code is illegal then what about a blue screen option, thats not harmless but every time they go to fly around an ORBX area a full blue screen takes over and has a big ":though you could hack a copy lol" message! I had never even thought to post my order numbers as I had been around since day dot but just to show that I am genuine here you go. Blue 3095 (had to be one of the early ones) Gold 6596 YMML 9205 Cheers all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryan Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Here’s an idea, just add an anonymous post against the download in piratebay stating that you have tried the download and you detected some obscure virus. Nobody wants to download a couple of GB of data with the chance of it containing a virus. AU Blue: 3591 AU YMML: 9291 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennyson Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I am of the opinion that these type of people will proliferate whatever you do. What I do not approve of is people, especially on this forum supporting them, in any way. Why is it that names suddenly appear (certainly that I've never seen before) to (seemingly) support such actions. I know it is a touchy issue and we all know the calibre of the product that is being THEIVED, so why would anybody not see the wrong in their doing. As for planting viruses and such, I liken it to the debate about capital punishment. Do not such actions lower our standards to theirs...... 0.02c Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ross Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Agree on that one Tennyson - if sane, sensible and mature people start copying the tactics of the intellectually challenged in Cyber land we may as well give up on the internet altogether because it will be dead in the water. I think the ripped off work is not really lost sales because they never would have paid for the product in the first place. The only hope is some honest person looking over there shoulder, and seeing the quality of the products, will actually go out and buy. Still galling I know but the thieves are not getting support and are really just wasting their internet download time. John Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Maybe someone might download one of these "pirated copies" and add a wee little virus hidden well in to it, then re-post it ! Hack the hackers ! If you know what I mean . I hear the AV08 virus in a nasty peace of work !! ....mmmmmmmmmm Already done, and what I put in there is REAL nasty, let me make it clear I have done this purely in retaliation to these scumbags and I am in NO WAY receiving any remuneration nor reward from ORBX or FTX . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yallu Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I don't support using illegal copies, but whatever we (yeah, I do software too) software producers do to protect our work cannot have any major negative effect on the legimate users of legal copies. No rootkits, no phone calls to activate, no active internet connection required, no limited number of installations etc. etc. No obstacles for the honest user. IMHO, there's no 99-100% technical protection against thieves that is transparent enough to the legimate users (and not too expensive for the software creator). What it all comes down to is that they should teach in the schools that stealing immaterial rights is wrong - and they're starting to. Serial keys are good enough to keep normal honest non-technical people from using illegal copies. Serial numbers only need to make a point : it's protected, you need to make an effort to use this software illegally. And when you do that, every normal person knows he's/she's doing wrong. In addition, I believe (just a guess) that majority of those people using illegal copies would not buy the product if there was a way to prevent any illegal use of it. They're mostly kids with no income and no way to convince their parents to buy new addons every month. I also believe that they know they're doing the wrong thing and that they will, when they grow older, get a job, and start making some money, gradually move into buying instead of stealing. Not everyone, but most normal people. Immaterial rights are only starting to sink in. Young people these days know it's wrong to steal software, music etc. (while some older people currently still have trouble understanding how you can steal something you can't touch, but that too is changing). Young people playing games today will continue that hobby even when they grow old. The difference is, as time progresses, more often than not they will be buying those games instead of stealing them. Computer games are no longer kids hobby only... For now, IMHO, there's not much else to do but to suck it up and wait for better times - I believe things will get better. And keep on teaching proper morale in the schools. It does not take an Einstein to understand that if everyone steals then nobody will be left to make these products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew22222 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Hey John, I would lose the direct link to the dodgy website. If our friend google search gets a whiff of it, anyone doing a search for FTX scenery, australia fsx scenery etc will get presented with the http://fullterrain.com probably in first place but with your link to the dodgy site they will really benifit and probably hit 3-5 place. Then people choose....... pay for it or free? Just a thought . Andrew BLUE - 3134 Motorola MC68000, clocked at 7.14 MHz RAM 6.5M ROM 512k Chipset OCS (A500) / ECS (A500+) 4Channel Stereo-Sound 880K 3.5" Floppy. 640 x 200 pixels/ 4096 Colours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Webb Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 If you have a habit of downloading Warez, my guess is that you wouldn't do a Google search, you would know where to look. Great post John. I'll keep the order number thing in mind before offering my non-official suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew22222 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I agree Matt, but my day job is making websites and making sure that these websites get in the top 10 positions in Google. Previous experience has shown that if you can get a well established website to have a url link somewhere on one their pages going to the new website for what ever reason it may be, then Google seems to realize the 'strong' incoming link to the new site and speeds up the ranking process. I get endless email each day for link exchange to various types of websites. I personally use the link exchange method but only on really well established sites and have succeeded. Lets face it, John is pissed and he should be but having the link here is just asking for Google search users to be introduced to the t*rrents site. Even regular FSX users that were really only searching for Australia scenery and noticed the t*rrent site a bit further down the list. Like I said before, they'd be offered the choice.... click on one and pay, click on the other a bit further down and get it for free. It's up to John, and I really do feel sorry for the FTX team losing out on product purchases. Any chance I can add a few heavier swear words to this post to describe the dodgy site in question Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyhalf Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 All you need to do it change the http to htt* or something - that will kill the direct link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bosch Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Yallu, I agree completely. Sure seeing your product ripped off is damned annoying but there really is nothing that can be done about it right now. All that modern anti-piracy techniques do is hinder those trying to do the right thing. Those that want to steal will do it regardless of the protection. I also agree that most of those that steal probably wouldn't have bought it anyway. Maybe I'm tainted by being fortunate enough to work in a line of software that nobody would want to steal (there's not that much call for military messaging products) but that's my view on it ... anti-piracy, beyond a CD key, is a massive inconvenience to those who want to do the right thing and doesn't stop the pirates anyway. Education is the key. In a similar way that teaching kids that speeding just 5km/h over the limit is just as law breaking as 20km/h over we need to teach them that software, audio and video piracy is just as much theft as lifting a Mars bar from a store. I have stood in a video store with a regular pirate friend and tried to convince him he should walk out the door with one of the DVDs on sale. He walked right into the trap by saying "but that's stealing". To which I replied "Oh, and downloading from the net isn't?". He went away thoughtful for a while and hasn't pirated anything since. Most people just haven't really thought about it, just like they don't think about speeding 'just a little bit'. As for deliberately placing a virus in your own pirated software. Why bring yourself down to their level? It accomplishes nothing because these people are used to viri and know how to deal with them. The old adage "never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" comes to mind. If you do this, then the next time you get a virus yourself I hope you don't rant and rave about the bastards that infected you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimNZ Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Hello fellow simmers. In relation to Maurice Kings message: Great stuff Mozza. Regards Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BennyHill Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 John, I have noticed for some time that many posts to this forum do not have order numbers and yet their requests are dealt with. Some are posts for the first time. I am proud of my purchases, my support for your fascinating work and proudly display my order numbers in my signature. I would hope that you will always enforce the rule that you don't get service without an order number. And that you have some mechanism of verifying the order number against the one posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Johnston Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Maybe someone might download one of these "pirated copies" and add a wee little virus hidden well in to it, then re-post it ! Hack the hackers ! If you know what I mean . I hear the AV08 virus in a nasty peace of work !! ....mmmmmmmmmm Already done, and what I put in there is REAL nasty, let me make it clear I have done this purely in retaliation to these scumbags and I am in NO WAY receiving any remuneration nor reward from ORBX or FTX . Good work mate. Cheers Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny D Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 hmmm the thing is people who dont have order numbers can still read the support forums and other posts which may resolve their issue...is there a way you can lock down the support forum so only people who have a reg number can log in ? FTX is sooo cheap, why would you bother risking screwing up your PC for the sake for a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted August 15, 2008 Author Share Posted August 15, 2008 We are going to be enforcing the "no order number, no support" rule for every support post logged. We don't want to close the forums to customers only, because having the community open and accessible leads to potential sales for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty073 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 cant you just lock the support forums to registered users only John and not the whole public as Johhny D was saying at least then they will have least to be a member here and you can moderate it a little better. Just my two cents Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bosch Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Don't close the forum totally, just the support section. Have a sticky in general asking people to contact you, or some site manager, with their forum username and order number in order to be placed in the "valid support" group that can see the support forum. That way, we don't need our order number in our signature in plain view of anybody that would like to copy it. Do you check every order number against something to determine if it has been copied from somebody's signature or is actually theirs, or do you just check that it is a valid serial number? Even if there are lots of "how do I get support?" questions, or even support questions themselves, in general we are all here to help as much as we can. I'm sure somebody would quickly tell them to send a PM to whoever is controlling it with their order number so they can be added to the support group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny D Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Sorry, to clarify...I only meant locking down the support forums...leave every other forum open for sure, like you said its potential sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexter Dog Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Education is the key. In a similar way that teaching kids that speeding just 5km/h over the limit is just as law breaking as 20km/h over we need to teach them that software, audio and video piracy is just as much theft as lifting a Mars bar from a store. I have stood in a video store with a regular pirate friend and tried to convince him he should walk out the door with one of the DVDs on sale. He walked right into the trap by saying "but that's stealing". To which I replied "Oh, and downloading from the net isn't?". He went away thoughtful for a while and hasn't pirated anything since. Most people just haven't really thought about it, just like they don't think about speeding 'just a little bit'. Wirraway, that's a really good idea! I was dissapointed to learn of some kids I know who have a "super blue tooth" programme for their mobiles, which allows them to use other peoples mobiles to call, look at private stuff etc and make calls and charge it to the other person. They actually think this behaviour is cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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