[RESOLVED - YMLTv2.5 + ORBXLIBS + CP] Thanks but unfortunately no go

[glider1001]

Dear Developers

Thank you for allowing me to try this technology on my system via your demo Tasmania download. I would have been devastated had I bought your product to find that the frame rates are just too low for me. At Launceston airport frame rates tank to 10-15fps. At altitude without staring at the airport, frame rates return to 40fps. My system is now quite old:

Intel Quad Q9300 2.5GHZ

Nvidia 9800GTX+

RAM 4GIG

Vista SP2 32Bit

For some reason the 3D objects around the airport although beautifully positioned, tank my system. I have to remove them by selecting sparce scenery complexity and have otherwise followed the manual's suggestions meticulously. For now I will have to return to the old MegaScenery technology which at least gets me in the 25-50fps ball park most of the time. I'm surprised that Orbx does not achieve this on my system because of all the positive FPS discussions but what can I say.

Thanks for your open spirit to us flight simmers. I will buy your product when I can afford a replacement PC (at least another year)

Cheers

Harry

[Giorgio Ramones]

You can really Oc that CPU and you should be using vista or w7 64bit to take advantage of the 4GB of ram you have in there... FTX are really nice products I only have AUblue cuse im not using FSX a lot and I dont have the money to pay all of them but If you can the worth every cent! Do what I say you will see a noticeable perfomance increase, you can also use FTXgo wich i have and I can tall you its a great little tool when it comes to tweak you cfg... Use that too it will also help, dont let your pc to defeat you LOL 

[florian455]

You can really Oc that CPU and you should be using vista or w7 64bit to take advantage of the 4GB of ram you have in there... FTX are really nice products I only have AUblue cuse im not using FSX a lot and I dont have the money to pay all of them but If you can the worth every cent! Do what I say you will see a noticeable perfomance increase, you can also use FTXgo wich i have and I can tall you its a great little tool when it comes to tweak you cfg... Use that too it will also help, dont let your pc to defeat you LOL 

I Agree with the Oc, your CPU can do 3 Ghz easly, on good CPU cooling at least.

How ever, the 64 bit for 4 gb isnt true it depends on your hardware and bios but with PAE

you can get 4 gb to be used on a 32 bit os.

[Giorgio Ramones]

I Agree with the Oc, your CPU can do 3 Ghz easly, on good CPU cooling at least.

How ever, the 64 bit for 4 gb isnt true it depends on your hardware and bios but with PAE

you can get 4 gb to be used on a 32 bit os.

I didnt know that, we learn something new everyday 

[John Venema]

Dear Developers

Thank you for allowing me to try this technology on my system via your demo Tasmania download. I would have been devastated had I bought your product to find that the frame rates are just too low for me. At Launceston airport frame rates tank to 10-15fps. At altitude without staring at the airport, frame rates return to 40fps.

For some reason the 3D objects around the airport although beautifully positioned, tank my system.

Hi Harry,

Sorry to hear you're experiencing slowdown. Did you download and install the latest version 2.5 of YMLT Launceston? It now comes with a control panel allowing you to selectively disable scenery elements whilst still keeping scenery density maxxed out:

YMLT has always been a bit of a puzzle to us, since some users report great FPS, whilst others like yourself struggle with it.

Anyway, try the full version of YMLT - you can download it from here - http://myftx.com/FTX_AU_BLUE/FTXAUYMLT_250_SP3.zip

[Grocs]

I agree with other people and their sentiments regarding overclocking your CPU - I've got a Q6600 2.4 Ghz Intel Quad Core and I'm running it at 3.0Ghz.  I'm in the fortunate position of living in Tasmania so it doesn't usually get incredibly hot so I haven't needed additional cooling.  As with any overclocking, do so at your own risk and make sure you keep an eye on the idle and under load cpu temperatures.

Even  though it has been mentioned you can take advantage of 4gb of ram under a 32bit OS I've already got 64 bit Windows 7 and over the weekend I will be doing a complete install.  I will also let you know how this goes.  The main reason I am doing this is that I can see myself upgrading the RAM to 6-8 GB in the future so why not prepare for it now?

I'm also running an 8800gt 512 mb nvidia card with Windows 7 32 bit - I will admit in larger areas it does struggle a bit to maintain a steady framerate but I've landed at Launceston 2.5 quite a few times and it hasn't dropped a great deal.  I will try again over the next couple of days and report to you my findings - I am also using FTX GO (a paid for tweak program) where I have adjusted my TREES and BUILDINGS per cell ratings to a lower amount - to help with framerates.  the good thing about this program is that you can create multiple profiles and if you want to, tweak the heck out of it and if it doesn't work - delete the profile and load the defaults again.  Having said that, I do agree with John that overtweaking can, in some cases, make things worse so I tend to only tweak a couple of settings now.

I find that overall my framerate is better in Tasmania (AU Blue) than say, AU GOLD, most likely because Hobart isn't nearly as big as Brisbane and surrounding areas 

[glider1001]

Anyway, try the full version of YMLT - you can download it from here - http://myftx.com/FTX_AU_BLUE/FTXAUYMLT_250_SP3.zip

Thanks for the help. Overclocking is not an option because my pc is an OEM and the bios is locked. At the time of purchase I was completely ignorant to overclocking.

I tried the YMLT SP3 patch and there is no difference with FPS 10-15. Unfortunately I cannot try disabling scenery because the control panel icon in FTX central cannot find OrbxControlPanel.exe. There is no such executable in the scripts folder either.

The order of demo installation has been:

FTXAUBLUEDEMOSP3.EXE

FTXAUYMLT_250_SP3.EXE

Cheers

Harry

[Grocs]

Hi glider,

Can I recommend you download Holger's freeware AU mesh as well?  http://www.fullterrain.com/freeware.html  (bottom left hand corner).

It is an unusual problem that you are experiencing.  As I've mentioned before - I will give Launceston SP3 2.5 a go and report my findings (stock standard too - 2.4 Ghz non overclocked)...

I will say that even not buying the additional airports - the FTX SP3 DVD would still be worth it for the accurate infrastructure etc alone - I love it.

I've only got one paid airport so far (YCDR - Caloundra) and I really enjoy it - but I find there is a small FPS drop in this area (due to the higher textures etc I'm guessing).

Regardless - I'm sure we'll do our best to try and assist you with the problem.

[John Dow]

Before I upgraded there were several areas in Australia I would steer clear of simply because of the drop in fps.  However those few areas did not stop me enjoying the remaining 10 million square km of Australia in the 4 regions.  ORBX FTX and OZX have so completely transformed the FSX experience that I just do not even consider flying outside the ORBX areas.  There are hundreds of hours of fantastic flying that do not go anywhere near the denser scenery areas.  For instance Start in Devonport, fly over to Strahan, back via Queenstown and over to Cambridge near Hobart.  If that doesn't convince you that FTX is so far above any other scenery available then I guess I see a diiferent world to you!

[markwlee]

My $0.02 worth is: why let poor FPS at YMLT stop you from enjoying the rest of Tassie?  I stay bush most of the time, too.  Don't buy any Airports 'til you upgrade but in the meantime enjoy Australia as FSX was meant to be with the FTX Australia Regions SP3 DVD.

[John Venema]

Anyway, try the full version of YMLT - you can download it from here - http://myftx.com/FTX_AU_BLUE/FTXAUYMLT_250_SP3.zip

Thanks for the help. Overclocking is not an option because my pc is an OEM and the bios is locked. At the time of purchase I was completely ignorant to overclocking.

I tried the YMLT SP3 patch and there is no difference with FPS 10-15. Unfortunately I cannot try disabling scenery because the control panel icon in FTX central cannot find OrbxControlPanel.exe. There is no such executable in the scripts folder either.

The order of demo installation has been:

FTXAUBLUEDEMOSP3.EXE

FTXAUYMLT_250_SP3.EXE

Cheers

Harry

Download the latest version of ORBXLIBS 100630 which includes the control panel application. - http://fullterrain.com/support.html#orbxlibs

[Grocs]

My $0.02 worth is: why let poor FPS at YMLT stop you from enjoying the rest of Tassie?  I stay bush most of the time, too.  Don't buy any Airports 'til you upgrade but in the meantime enjoy Australia as FSX was meant to be with the FTX Australia Regions SP3 DVD.

In case my earlier post didn't elaborate this - I'm in complete agreement.  I will never fly without the ORBx Australian FTX regions installed - with the level of accuracy they have provided I flew VFR to where my house would physically be in FSX using the FTX AU Blue region.  Obviously it didn't show my house but I still found the exact spot due to the accurate road and river modelling.

[glider1001]

My $0.02 worth is: why let poor FPS at YMLT stop you from enjoying the rest of Tassie?  I stay bush most of the time, too.  Don't buy any Airports 'til you upgrade but in the meantime enjoy Australia as FSX was meant to be with the FTX Australia Regions SP3 DVD.

Thanks for that optimistic thought. I will try the country areas of Tassie and stay away from the metro and bigger airports. It makes sense for me to do this in any case because all I'm interested in is cross country gliding with REX/ASE/CumulusX/DiscusX in any case.

I will definetly consider the FTX DVD for Aus considering that I am an Aussie anyway. The turn off is that if Launceston in Tassie tanks FPS, what chance is there for where I really want to try, Caloundra?!

Thanks for all the help. It looks to be a wonderful product and depending on circumstances, I intend to support the product as much as I can with financial purchases. All the work that has gone into this deserves this kind of support without question.

Cheers fellow simmers

Harry

[John Dow]

The turn off is that if Launceston in Tassie tanks FPS, what chance is there for where I really want to try, Caloundra?!

True... but if you stick with the default Caloundra until you eventually upgrade and can justify the addon, your fps will be fine.  The airport and town are still there, just not in photoreal and detailed.

[John Venema]

Harry, as an FYI, here's the experience of a customer using a 2.5 year old PC over FTX PNW and 3W5 Concrete - http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=24295

I've asked him to share his PC specs so you have a comparison in terms of your hardware.

As I mentioned, YMLT seems to be a bit of anomaly for some people; general performance over FTX and our regional GA airports has always been well received and reported.

[Grocs]

Hey all,

Just so you can relax a little bit - Launceston is indeed a bit of anomaly.  I just tried it and the fps drops considerably whenever you look at the airport once you have taken off (or indeed as you take off).  I was getting around 12 fps at 3.0 Ghz!

I tried it with Direct X 10 just in case you were running that mode and it is even worse - about 6 fps - so I'd start by confirming you are running Direct X 9 mode because it may help a little.

Can I ease your fears a bit regarding Caloundra - it runs fine on my system.  There is a few fps loss but nothing like what I get when I pan to look at Launceston or fly over it.  Can I point out that I have no fps problem flying in the rest of Tassie (so far).  To be honest I didn't notice the Launceston problem too much because when I usually take off there I'm not looking too closely at the airport itself - just the lovely countryside around it.

I honestly think you can put it down to just one of those weird things - other freeware airports that ORBx provide (like Redcliff for example) don't seem to have these fps problems on our lower spec machines.

I hope this helps a little - trust me when I say the FTX Australia DVD is worth it.

[Mark Abdey]

I have an even older and less powerful PC, but, with a little time spent finding a settings 'sweet spot', an 'unlimited' frame rate and a couple of tweaks I can get a consistent 20+ fps at YMLT.  This is with 'Dense' autogen and 50% airline traffic, 16% GA and not to many compromises elsewhere .  Once out into the bush the frame will pull up into the forties with ease... So it is possible to get performance and visuals that are beyond acceptable even with this sort of hardware, it just may take a little time to find a good balance [maybe a tweak or two] - plus I think it's worth losing a little performance for the gain in fidelity these packages offer.

BTW I find the smaller payware fields [so not YMML] perform at least as well, but usually better than YMLT for some reason.

My spec is an Athlon X2 clocked to 2.5ghz - 2GB RAM - 9800GT 1gb - Win XP32bit - X-Fi Gamer... so positively ancient, but I keep it clean, updated and defragged and it keeps up quite well... any shots I've posted here are all at my usual flying setting, not bumped up for the camera and I think they hold there own - so there is hope 

[BiggerBoat]

I'll add my voice to the chorus that says that YMLT is a bit of a performance anomaly. I used to use it as a benchmark since it was a good test of any changes I made to my system. If I could roll down the runway of YMLT with decent performance, I knew everything else would be OK. To be honest, though, I usually just avoided flying there.

Otherwise, on my mediocre system (Q6600 @3.0, Geforce 8800 GTS 512) performance with Orbx AU scenery is excellent, and in many cases is as good or better than default. My only experience with FTX payware airports is Cessnock in AU and Concrete in PNW, and both perform very well. My understanding is that Cessnock is pretty frame-rate friendly, and the surroundings are beautiful.

Are you using the external frame rate limiter program? I find that it's a must-have for a low or medium spec system, since it allows you to run unlimited in FSX (which for whatever reason adds about 50% performance) while avoiding the wild FPS fluctuations which can make things stutter.

You might also consider adjusting your TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL and TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL settings if you haven't done so already. I found that this tweak added an additional oomph to my performance over Orbx AU, without sacrificing much of anything in terms of visuals.

Definitely take some time flying around Tasmania, and have a go at tweaking your settings a bit. I enjoy the satellite scenery as well (tileproxy instead of megascenery), but nothing can compare to the sense of immersion that the Orbx scenery provides. Even at low altitude, the detailed textures, autogen, lights, etc. convey a reality that you just can't get anywhere else.

I will also say that the community and developers here is about the best I've seen in the Flight sim world, and they are very helpful.

[John Lovell]

I find these two config lines really help.

[bUFFERPOOLS]

PoolSize=0

[sCENERY]

SmallPartRejectRadius=3

Frames go up by about 30% with these tweaks for me

[Mark Abdey]

Yep, I use both of those - Bufferpools, makes a huge difference, as documented elsewhere, and is well worth a try... I also use 'TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL set to 500' which still gives me a vast amount of buildings and I leave trees alone, as I like a lot away from urban areas.  You can drive yourself mad tweaking, but its worth trying some of those that really do work, esp. for an older PC... it may just lift you above what you consider the minimum acceptable frame rate, and allow you to enjoy this scenery.

I find these two config lines really help.

[bUFFERPOOLS]

PoolSize=0

[sCENERY]

SmallPartRejectRadius=3

Frames go up by about 30% with these tweaks for me

[caribou]

I will try the country areas of Tassie and stay away from the metro and bigger airports.

Hi Harry - sounds like a good idea.  Once I started flying in FTX Australia I've only left to fly in FTX PNW.  Default FSX just doesn't do it for me anymore.  I also have performance issues in some areas but my computer is much less capable than yours (AMD 64X2 4200).    There is so much to see and enjoy in the area away from larger cities that you may find you won't miss the larger ones at all.    Let me suggest that you install the OZx airport addons (aussiex.org) for over 300 airports - some in Tassie as well.  once you see how absolutely realistic they are and how realistically then blend in, you probably won't miss the larger performance challenged areas. 

Have a good one.  Howard

[glider1001]

Woooow thanks everyone for the help! Man flight simming is a community and we should spread the word to get more people into it especially young Aussies that want to begin a life time interest in flying. Orbx well done. If we can get 25+ scenery out of a PC of my vintage (which is reasonably cheap to buy today), we should be able to drag teenagers off playstations, wii, Xbox and back onto the PC for a truly genuine hobby that pays back the simmer in so many ways.

I downloaded the latest libs and tracked down the frame rate problem at Launceston. Airport vehicles is the culprit, taking away 10FPS just in that option alone. The other five options combined take down the frame rate between 2-5FPS. So with airport vehicles turned off and all else on, the FPS is 20-25 which is *just* good enough. As soon as the TrackIR gaze is taken off the airport, FPS enter the 30-40FPS region and possibly even better.

No question I will go buy the AUS DVD and possibly Caloundra. I live near Belmont/Cessnock so you can understand why Orbx has got me interested! Aeropelican is an amazing little airport and long may it live on. Terrain mesh and traffic were concerns for me in the product but it looks like all the freeware on this site plus the OzX community addresses the Australian experience perfectly. FTX combined with REX2/CumulusX/DiscusX that is one heck of a way to learn to fly cross country gliders!

Once again, thanks. Amazing stuff.

Cheers

Harry

[Grocs]

Great to hear you've tracked down some of the options that were slowing the fps down a bit...

Flight Simming is just amazing - but it isn't for everyone (my wife certainly doesn't understand it) 

For me it is the ability to fly around areas I grew up in and just take that virtual trip with VFR around Australia.  Another one of my quirks is keeping continuity as often as I can in terms of landings and take-offs.  I like to plan a flight from the last airport I landed at - I find it a great way to explore the awesome work ORBx have done.  Currently I'm on the way to Emerald, QLD.