John York Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Here's a dilemma. I want to buy a Cessna Citation. However, there are two versions and I would like to know which would be best for me. The Flight 1 Mustang seems very good but I've had a lot of trouble ordering it. They make everything so complicated. The Wilco Cessna Citation reads good too and apart from the fact that it's £10 cheaper, it would be much simpler and easier to order the download from the Flight Sim Store. I know there are a few of you using these aircraft. What are you using and what one do you think I should buy please? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conchulio Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Hello JohnY, do i get it right that the only real argument you have is the rather difficult way to order that product against the other one? Sorry if i say that but it sounds rather ridiculous! I don't mean this in an offending way but really, if you read what you have just written, it sounds, well, bizarre. Ok, but back to topic: I own the one from Flight1. I am no real pilot but i have flown a couple of times in the exact same aircraft and beginning with the look, it is INCREDIBLE. There are so many details in this aircraft and so many things you can manipulate in the cabin, it becomes dangerous, because sometimes you forget to fly that thing instead of looking how the table comes out or how the sunshields comes down the windows etc.. What i have seen from the Wilco Citation in terms of "look", it is absolutely inferior. I can't say much about the flight dynamics, as i am no real pilot and i have never ever flown a Mustang by myself but overall the flight dynamis from the Flight1 Mustang "feel" right. The sounds of the engines, the flaps or the sound of the retracting gear, everything is amazing! Overall, i can fully recommend buying the Flight1 Mustang. It really is an amazing aircraft which "feels" realistic. The look is jawdropping and the sounds are great! Oh, i forgot, the rendition of the Garmin 1000 is also very well done. And btw, i think when you buy it via Flight1, you have a 30 day refund if i am not mistaken?! So try it out. I don't have the Wilco Citation but even when comparing both products by looking and screenshots or even videos from youtube i think the decision is rather simple. Sincerly Conchulio Give it a shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 There is a third choice and in my opinion the best of the three: The Eaglesoft Citation 2. Accurate and challenging to fly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 It may sound strange but virtually everyone I know from other forums try to keep clear of ordering from Flight 1. And that's simply because they make the process so complicated! The really werd thing is that their ordering system is different for different products. I ordered the Pilatus on the same day with no trouble whatsoever, and the downlad for the Citation went really well. However the actual installation was a disaster and although I got the 'plane, there are things wrong. Every time I want to fly it, the message comes up about Navaids and although it says its getting updated information, it doesn't. The fact is I rarely have a problem with other suppliers but the exception is Flight 1. Even their Keycodes don't save correctly and result in gobbledygook when you try to reinstall. Therefore, if I can get a just as good Citation from another supplier I will and macca's choice seems to be favourite for the time being. Thanks mate. Or, is there another place I can buy the Flight 1 product from? In which case I'll still have the choice. Thanks for your help fellers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conchulio Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I'm sorry to hear that you have had so much problems with the installation procedure. I have no clue what causes your problems as i really never had any of those. However, i don't know if that makes a difference but you could buy the Flight1 Mustang from the flightsimstore although i am not sure if the installation differs... Anyway, the alternative macca22au presented is also quite ok. Conchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimshot Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 The Flight1 system is very user friendly. I have never had any problems with it and find it easy to use. Have you tried to get help at their forums? I agree with the statement the purchase system shouldn't be a reason to choose between two aircraft. The choice between the Flight1 Mustang and the Wilco Citation is a no brainer; I think the Flight1 Mustang is a much more complete and accurate model of the real thing, as far as I can tell. And do you just want a Citation, or is the performance of the aircraft important to you as well? The Mustang is a completely different aircraft compared to the Wilco Citation X. The first one is small, single pilot certified and has good capabilities to get in and out of smaller airfields. The Citation X is a completely different beast. Much larger, operated by two pilots and an aircraft that has set records for speed and altitude performance for private jets. Furthermore, if you deside to get the X I would choose the one made by Eaglesoft in a heartbeat and wouldn't even consider the Wilco model. The already mentioned Eaglesoft Citation II is nice as well. Unfortunately for you Eaglesoft uses the Flight1 purchase system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Womack Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I'm confused by this talk of how complicated the F1 system is. I've been using it for years, and it seems to me to be the model of simplicity in action. You download it, launch it, enter your purchase info, and install it. What's so very complicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzer Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I just wish they (Flight1) would respond to my request to register and account so I can gain access to the support forum. ATM, the glass cock-pit on my Mustang is all blank. Sadly they are entering the realms of Warbirdsim for me and with soon be black balled by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Paul, How long ago did you purchase the Mustang? And when did you register the product with Flight1? You should have either Acceleration or SP2 installed, you MUST start with the Flight1 Safe Startup File or with one of the default aircraft (I prefer the Cessna 172, but the ultralight works, too), and finally, reinstall the Mustang using the Flight1 wrapper. Let me know if none of these things work for you...and if they don't PM me with your Mustang forum log in name, and I'll make sure Jim sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I use Flight1 a lot too and have never had any trouble with the ordering process. It seems very straight forward to me. I recently took advantage of their 30 day money back guarantee too (which was also trouble free) as I had bought the Mustang but preferred the Eaglesoft Citation mentioned before (also ordered through the Flight1 ordering process by the way). The Eaglesoft Citation is first class (my favourite aircraft to fly at the moment) and there's soon to be a superb VC released to replace the existing one. Badger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Meson Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I purchased the Eaglesoft Citation x this morning, downloaded and paid for it, went through the installation and got as far as 13% installed then it hung. I've tried this at least 6 times with no success, and when I try to get help, cannot email anybody and can't get help from the forums of either Eaglesoft or Flight1. So much for supporting your paying customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca22au Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I had no such problem. I don't want to advance a defence for Eaglesoft but I think many developers, who are small business people take the weekend off. Give them another try tomorrow. In the meantime get registered and look in the Eaglesoft forum to see if someone else has had the same experience or in the FAQ. Otherwise delete the downloaded material, reboot, and download again. I am responding because I have had absolutely no problem with the installation or operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Yes, and turn off your antivirus software before installing. As the previous poster said, you might also try redownloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John York Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Well, I've been reading all this and as usual there are a variety of replies, which is good and what I expected. The fact is, I too have bought quite a lot from Flight 1 over the years and can only say what I find and that is that in most purchases I've had a problem, although admittedly they've been sorted out satisfactorily in the end. For instance, their key codes simply don't save in a useable form so if I want to reinstall I have to go through all the rigmarole of getting a new key to use with that reinstall. It's not as if I'm renting the bloody thing from them, I'm buying it! Additionally, I should be able to reinstall it as many times as I like without having to do it through them and their complicated system! Other firms do quite well without all that messing about so I don't see why they can't. Anyway, I've gone off the idea of the Mustang now, especially as I find the idea of loading a stock 'plane first and then changing to the Mustang quite frankly, ridiculous! I've got the Pilatus to give me a bit more speed. I'll make do with that and my ropey old Learjet! As far as I'm concerned that's it now and I'll not be monitering 'replies' any more. Thanks for your opinions folks. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggy Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I always load the Mustang directly, never had any problem. You can usually save the unpacked installer and install that as often as you like, I guess as long as it is installed on the same machine, not sure, I do not re-install these products too often. I believe when you move to a new machine, you may need to re-unpack the installer. Siggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPA159 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I have both. Haven't even bothered installing the Wilco this time around. The mustang is by far the better simulation. Only downside is the OOM-errors I keep getting when trying to fly it in PNW. But everywhere else in the world it's fantastic. So yeah it does require some hardware but I tend to prefer lowering all the scenery settings by a notch or two from time to time in order to experience the Mustang. It really is great, both in avionics and "feel". I couldn't care less about all the eye-candy and would wish for them to release a "lite" model, but it's still by far the best business jet out there. I too had issues registering with their forums, but I did get in eventually. The Flight1 purchase system has been improved lately, with the optional "logon" or "account" functionality you don't even have to remember a key or save a key file. When you need to reinstall, download the latest installer(usually a good idea, as it contains the latest patches), select logon with the email you purchased with, write your Flight 1 password and hey presto the installer starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimshot Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 You can usually save the unpacked installer and install that as often as you like, I guess as long as it is installed on the same machine, not sure, I do not re-install these products too often. I believe when you move to a new machine, you may need to re-unpack the installer. You always have to reinstall using the red airplane wrapper icon and select the button 'Click here to reinstall'. Otherwise gauges or other functionality will not work. @John, if you're still monitoring this thread. Your problems amaze me. With the Flight1 system you have about five reinstalls with a single key. After that, reactivating that key is done in a matter of seconds. What on Earth do you mean when you say their codes are not saved in a usable form? On a sidenote, if you purchase a product you don't own it. You purchase a license to use it As far as your remark about the loading of the Mustang is concerned, that is just the way it is. Making a complex addon with custom systems work, requires the loading of a default aircraft first. It has been like that for ages with many complex addon aircraft. Good FS products sometimes need extra actions from the user, as with the FTX Central application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzer Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Paul, How long ago did you purchase the Mustang? And when did you register the product with Flight1? You should have either Acceleration or SP2 installed, you MUST start with the Flight1 Safe Startup File or with one of the default aircraft (I prefer the Cessna 172, but the ultralight works, too), and finally, reinstall the Mustang using the Flight1 wrapper. Let me know if none of these things work for you...and if they don't PM me with your Mustang forum log in name, and I'll make sure Jim sees it. Purchased July 31st 2009. Installed and worked fine with Vista when orginally installed. Having re-installed after changing my HD's and OS to Win7 it appears to have stopped working. As for when I registered the product, I really don't have a clue to be honest - would have thought this would have been at the time of orignal installation though. PM on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzer Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I always load the Mustang directly, never had any problem. You can usually save the unpacked installer and install that as often as you like, I guess as long as it is installed on the same machine, not sure, I do not re-install these products too often. I believe when you move to a new machine, you may need to re-unpack the installer. Siggy This sound exactly like what I done, the Mustang loads just fine into FSX and can be flown with no problems, it's just all the glass cockpit remains black as if turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Folks, When you reinstall a Flight1 product, you should use the wrapper reinstall process, and not the unwrapped file. The wrapper is there to aid in the purchase process AND as a copyright protection tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimshot Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 That's what I said earlier I suspect not everybody posting here is aware of the way the Flight1 system works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzer Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Folks, When you reinstall a Flight1 product, you should use the wrapper reinstall process, and not the unwrapped file. The wrapper is there to aid in the purchase process AND as a copyright protection tool. Yup, thanks for the info. I must have wrongly assumed that because I had no trouble re-installing the Mustang when using the existing license key-file that all was well. Thanks very much for your help - happy to report my glass is back working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Paul, Glad you got it sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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