active KSAN V1.10 Performance at Night

[tubbsds]

I installed (and reinstalled) KSAN V1.10.  First of all it is simply amazing and one of the best of the many payware airports I have.  Unfortunately, even stripped down in the control panel, I am getting single digit FPS at night when at the terminal (dynamic lighting on).  25 FPS during the day.  I do not usually have FPS problems anywhere inside P3D.  For comparison at night with DL on I get upper 20s at the flightbeam and FSDT airports and even in the mid twenties at Imanginesim's KATL.  Before V1.10 I had very good FPS at KSAN.  I have tried everything I know to try.  Like I said, I even uninstalled and reinstalled it.  Amazing during the day, unusable at night.  

 

Dave

[Matteo Veneziani]

Hi,

 

If you have actived the DL this could be the problem at night. You could try to disable them in p3d setting.

I'm thinking to add an option to turn off them in the cp, so you could use DL for other airports but not in KSAN without turning the option to off in the p3d setting.

[tubbsds]

I realize DL is the problem, I just would like to keep it on.  My point is that I am able to use DL at every other airport (even KATL) with no problems.  But at KSAN it is unusable.  I am wondering why this is and if others are seeing the same?

[SBosse]

Wow, just updated to v1.10 of KSAN and I totally agree with 'tubbsds' in regards to ultra-poor performance in this release. In my case I've only tried this new v1.10 KSAN during daytime

and its performance is significantly worse than the previous version. In fact it is unusable. e.g.

 

1) Many long frames during movement.

2) Lots of stutter and micro-stutter on any movement of the plane. Staying still and panning around, my FPS (30 FPS) stays good and feels normal just like all other locations in the sim.

3) Extremely blurred ground textures even right near the runway on takeoff and even up to 3+ K feet.

4) Had one complete lockup of the sim (reset button, keyboard and / or CTRL-ALT-DEL not responding) after 3-5 minutes of flight out of KSAN RW9 heading north to KLAS.

 

I have to stress this does not happen or even come close to happening IN ANY OTHER LOCATION I fly within the sim including all my other Orbx pay ware airports. Yes KLAX has bad performance but I stay away from it for that reason. KSAN is at least 3x worse than KLAX and completely unusable.

 

I finally have P3D v4.x finely tuned (took many months) and everything else runs very well.

 

Is this the long awaited SP1 for KSAN or an intermediate release? I am hoping this is not the final release, if it is than Orbx KSAN will be added to the no-fly-zone list with KLAX.

 

Installation:

1) P3d v4.2.

2) ORBX FTX central v3.2.5.5

3) ORBX Libraries.

4) ORBX FTX Light Configurator.

5) ORBX FTX Global base pack.

6) ORBX FTX Global openLC North America.

7) ORBX FTX Global HD trees.

8 ) ORBX pay ware airports: KJAC, KTVL, KCGX, KBHB, KSAN, CYSE

9) ORBX REGION Northern California.

10) ORBX REGION Southern California.

11) ORBX REGION Southern Alaska.

12) ORBX REGION Pacific Northwest.

13) ORBX REGION Central Rockies.

14) Active Sky for P3D v4.x.

15) Ultimate traffic Live v1.1.0.0

16) Have KSAN control panel set to 'FTX Southern California Mode'.

       These two settings are confusing if you have both ORBX REGION Southern California and ORBX FTX Global openLC North America installed?

       All other KSAN control panel settings set to lowest / performance minded settings.

17) Yes I have DL enabled in P3D and since everything else runs fine with it enabled, shutting it off is not a valid solution.

 

My System:

1) MSI X99A XPOWER AC motherboard.

2) i7 5960x at 4.3 GHz. Solid for two years.

3) 64Gig DDR4 2666MHz (63GB per second in quad channel according to AIDA64 Extreme) . Solid for two years.

4) Gigabyte G1 Gaming 1080.

5) (2) Samsung 960 Pro's 1TB nvme, drive C and drive D. (3.0GB per second on each)

6) Windows 10 FCU.

7) Samsung 4K monitor set to 4K in P3D with monitor set to 30Hz refresh only for P3D, P3D set to unlimited frames and VSYNC on, triple buffering on.

[gregoryv]

Same here. Poor performance due to DL.

[Matteo Veneziani]

4 hours ago, tubbsds said:

I realize DL is the problem, I just would like to keep it on.  My point is that I am able to use DL at every other airport (even KATL) with no problems.  But at KSAN it is unusable.  I am wondering why this is and if others are seeing the same?

Hi,

 

I will add an option to exclude DL in the CP in the next update. I think you have bad performance because KSAN area is already very heavy zone.

The dl is just an effect file.

24 minutes ago, SBosse said:

Wow, just updated to v1.10 of KSAN and I totally agree with 'tubbsds' in regards to ultra-poor performance in this release. In my case I've only tried this new v1.10 KSAN during daytime

and its performance is significantly worse than the previous version. In fact it is unusable. e.g.

 

1) Many long frames during movement.

2) Lots of stutter and micro-stutter on any movement of the plane. Staying still and panning around, my FPS (30 FPS) stays good and feels normal just like all other locations in the sim.

3) Extremely blurred ground textures even right near the runway on takeoff and even up to 3+ K feet.

4) Had one complete lockup of the sim (reset button, keyboard and / or CTRL-ALT-DEL not responding) after 3-5 minutes of flight out of KSAN RW9 heading north to KLAS.

 

I have to stress this does not happen or even come close to happening IN ANY OTHER LOCATION I fly within the sim including all my other Orbx pay ware airports. Yes KLAX has bad performance but I stay away from it for that reason. KSAN is at least 3x worse than KLAX and completely unusable.

 

I finally have P3D v4.x finely tuned (took many months) and everything else runs very well.

 

Is this the long awaited SP1 for KSAN or an intermediate release? I am hoping this is not the final release, if it is than Orbx KSAN will be added to the no-fly-zone list with KLAX.

 

Installation:

1) P3d v4.2.

2) ORBX FTX central v3.2.5.5

3) ORBX Libraries.

4) ORBX FTX Light Configurator.

5) ORBX FTX Global base pack.

6) ORBX FTX Global openLC North America.

7) ORBX FTX Global HD trees.

8 ) ORBX pay ware airports: KJAC, KTVL, KCGX, KBHB, KSAN, CYSE

9) ORBX REGION Northern California.

10) ORBX REGION Southern California.

11) ORBX REGION Southern Alaska.

12) ORBX REGION Pacific Northwest.

13) ORBX REGION Central Rockies.

14) Active Sky for P3D v4.x.

15) Ultimate traffic Live v1.1.0.0

16) Have KSAN control panel set to 'FTX Southern California Mode'.

       These two settings are confusing if you have both ORBX REGION Southern California and ORBX FTX Global openLC North America installed?

       All other KSAN control panel settings set to lowest / performance minded settings.

17) Yes I have DL enabled in P3D and since everything else runs fine with it enabled, shutting it off is not a valid solution.

 

My System:

1) MSI X99A XPOWER AC motherboard.

2) i7 5960x at 4.3 GHz. Solid for two years.

3) 64Gig DDR4 2666MHz (63GB per second in quad channel according to AIDA64 Extreme) . Solid for two years.

4) Gigabyte G1 Gaming 1080.

5) (2) Samsung 960 Pro's 1TB nvme, drive C and drive D. (3.0GB per second on each)

6) Windows 10 FCU.

7) Samsung 4K monitor set to 4K in P3D with monitor set to 30Hz refresh only for P3D, P3D set to unlimited frames and VSYNC on, triple buffering on.

Hi,

 

this is very strange from our test the perfomance is the same or better, also I have not touched anything in particular in the scenery, so this big performance downgrade is not caused by the scenery, check your setting or your p3d.

for example if you have " extremely blurrend ground textures " this is very strange because the ground textures they have not been touched.

for compatibility mode in your case, you have southern california so set the cp to southern california compatibility mode this is valid also if you have GLOBAL+ SCA.

 

 

[SBosse]

3 minutes ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

Hi,

 

I will add an option to exclude DL in the CP in the next update. I think you have bad performance because KSAN area is already very heavy zone.

Hi,

 

this is very strange from our test the perfomance is the same or better, also I have not touched anything in particular in the scenery, so this big performance downgrade is not caused by the scenery, check your setting or your p3d.

for example if you have " extremely blurrend ground textures " this is very strange because the ground textures they have not been touched.

for compatibility mode in your case, you have southern california so set the cp to southern california compatibility mode this is valid also if you have GLOBAL+ SCA.

 

 

Hey Matteo,

 

I stated in my original post about 'FTX Southern California Mode':

 

16) Have KSAN control panel set to 'FTX Southern California Mode'.

       These two settings are confusing if you have both ORBX REGION Southern California and ORBX FTX Global openLC North America installed?

       All other KSAN control panel settings set to lowest / performance minded settings.

 

Also, as I stated the following in my original post:

 

"I finally have P3D v4.x finely tuned (took many months) and everything else runs very well. "

 

and

 

"I have to stress this does not happen or even come close to happening IN ANY OTHER LOCATION I fly within the sim including all my other Orbx pay ware airports"

 

so there is nothing to check in my P3D settings, it runs everything else fine except Orbx KSAN and KLAX which are in my no-fly-zone list.

 

Thanks for your response.

[Matteo Veneziani]

8 minutes ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

Hi,

 

I will add an option to exclude DL in the CP in the next update. I think you have bad performance because KSAN area is already very heavy zone.

The dl is just an effect file.

Hi,

 

this is very strange from our test the perfomance is the same or better, also I have not touched anything in particular in the scenery, so this big performance downgrade is not justify, I recommend to check your setting or your p3d.

for example if you have " extremely blurrend ground textures " this is very strange because the ground textures they have not been touched.

for compatibility mode in your case, you have southern california so set the cp to southern california compatibility mode this is valid also if you have GLOBAL+ SCA.

 

 

 

[manihell]

I can confirm That I'm also getting poor performance at night on a 7700k 4.8ghz / 1080ti- upper teens at best. I would say performance is marginally better during the day. I'm also missing the static airplanes from the previous version- any chance these can be included again?

[SBosse]

As a test, I'll try temporarily turning off DL in P3D, fly out of Orbx KSAN and see if daytime performance improves...I'll be back.

[SBosse]

Can't really say if performance improved with DL OFF. Did not seem to make a difference. Not sure how sophisticated the lighting engine in P3D is for daytime light casting

and if P3D's lighting engine would either reduce the light casting task or turn it off for daytime. Took off from KSAN for this test. I need to land at KSAN from afar for a real test as I did with my first flight with v1.10 of which I saw poor performance.

 

I can say performance was much better this time compared to my first flight, but my first flight I was landing at KSAN instead of taking off. I'll try a another KLAS to KSAN and see if the poor performance returns on landing with and without DL enabled.

[Matteo Veneziani]

Just now, manihell said:

I can confirm That I'm also getting poor performance at night on a 7700k 4.8ghz / 1080ti- upper teens at best. I would say performance is marginally better during the day. I'm also missing the static airplanes from the previous version- any chance these can be included again?

yes, i'm planning to add the option to have the static airplanes because many of you want them back.

2 minutes ago, SBosse said:

Hey Matteo,

 

I stated in my original post about 'FTX Southern California Mode':

 

16) Have KSAN control panel set to 'FTX Southern California Mode'.

       These two settings are confusing if you have both ORBX REGION Southern California and ORBX FTX Global openLC North America installed?

       All other KSAN control panel settings set to lowest / performance minded settings.

 

Also, as I stated the following in my original post:

 

"I finally have P3D v4.x finely tuned (took many months) and everything else runs very well. "

 

and

 

"I have to stress this does not happen or even come close to happening IN ANY OTHER LOCATION I fly within the sim including all my other Orbx pay ware airports"

 

so there is nothing to check in my P3D settings, it runs everything else fine except Orbx KSAN and KLAX which are in my no-fly-zone list.

 

Thanks for your response.

Yes i can understand, but at my end and also from feedbacks of testers the performance are the same or little better compared to the previous version.

I don't know why you have bad performance in KSAN, but what I'm trying to tell you that this update can not absolutely reduce the performance in such a drastic way.

Maybe the perfomance could be less with DL active at night but this is normal. 

the only things that can drastically reduce the performance is a change of setting in your sim, for example if you have also SCA the performance are very worse respect to have only GLOBAL. Also in KSAN if you have vehicles traffic this could cause stutters and bad performance, the same if you are using a high setting for water.

 

 

 

[tubbsds]

Matteo,

First of all I thank you for replying and I understand what you are saying. 

 

I am telling you though, I have no such problems at any other DL airport at night.  Like I said, even at huge and taxing airports like KATL with high AI traffic and DL turned on, I still get at least upper teens.  At Flightbeam DL airports I get upper 20s at night with DL on and lots of traffic.  At FSDT KLAX (no DL) I get upper teens to low twenties at night with lots of traffic.  Furthermore, I had very good performance at KSAN before v1.10 and still do during the day.  During the day I get mid to upper 20s with lots of traffic.  I will turn DL off in the sim and see what I get at KSAN.  That will be my next test when I get sometime.  I'm just saying that in my opinion there is an "issue" at night.  I suspect others using DL will report the same once people upgrade.  As you can see I rarely post unless I feel that there is truly a problem.  I would just avoid this airport but wow yall did such an amazing job with it I hate to not fly there!!  It truly is a piece of art and I love all of your products.  Thanks for listening.

 

Dave

[Matteo Veneziani]

2 hours ago, tubbsds said:

Matteo,

First of all I thank you for replying and I understand what you are saying. 

 

I am telling you though, I have no such problems at any other DL airport at night.  Like I said, even at huge and taxing airports like KATL with high AI traffic and DL turned on, I still get at least upper teens.  At Flightbeam DL airports I get upper 20s at night with DL on and lots of traffic.  At FSDT KLAX (no DL) I get upper teens to low twenties at night with lots of traffic.  Furthermore, I had very good performance at KSAN before v1.10 and still do during the day.  During the day I get mid to upper 20s with lots of traffic.  I will turn DL off in the sim and see what I get at KSAN.  That will be my next test when I get sometime.  I'm just saying that in my opinion there is an "issue" at night.  I suspect others using DL will report the same once people upgrade.  As you can see I rarely post unless I feel that there is truly a problem.  I would just avoid this airport but wow yall did such an amazing job with it I hate to not fly there!!  It truly is a piece of art and I love all of your products.  Thanks for listening.

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

I will investigate a little bit more, but mine DL effect is not very different than other developers. I have understood you have more fps with DL in other airport ( also big and heavy airport ) but i think KSAN is very particular. For example if you active road traffic in KSAN at least from our tests we get very bad performance, and for example road traffic at other airports it does not negatively affect performance like in KSAN. Anyway at my end ( without any addon a part ORBX products with or without DL at KSAN i have about the same perfomance ), but i think if you are using KSAN with a lot of addons and heavy aircraft in this already heavy airport on the sistem have bad performance is something you should expect.

This doesn't mean i will not investigate more into this to see if there is a solution ( if there is a concrete problem ).

 

ps. which is your pc's spec?

 

At the moment this all I  can say and all I can do.

 

Regards, Matteo

 

 

[tubbsds]

Specs:

i7-4770K @4.5GHz

16GB DDR3 2333MHz

Geforce GTX 1080 16GB

P3D V4.2

SSD drives

 

And thanks so much.  If nothing can be done I understand.  It is what it is.  A DL option in the control panel would be a good idea at that point so we don't have to switch it on and off in the sim when flying in and out of KSAN.

 

Dave

[tubbsds]

Ok flew into KSAN tonight.  Oddly DL looked like it was off.  FPS were great (30 FPS) everywhere.  But DL was definitely "off" as no aircraft were illuminated.  Thing is DL was still checked on in P3D and nothing I did would make it "turn on".  So odfd and no idea what was going on here.

 

So I restarted P3D and loaded up KSAN.  This time DL was on and FPS when in the terminal area were single digits again.  Away from the terminal or looking away from the terminal it jumps up to normal (30 FPS).  Then I turned DL off.  FPS were 30fps no matter were I was including the terminal.  Everything was great except no DL. Turning it on again returned the FPS to single digits.

 

Anywhere else in the airport the FPS are great.  With DL turned off FPS are great.  WIth DL turned on I lose ~20 FPS.  I realize DL is taxing but it shouldn't be that bad.

 

Dave

[tubbsds]

More..... turned off all AI and FPS stayed in the single digits.  Now that doesn't make any sense at all!  I was thinking without AI it would increase substantially.  I didn't gain a single FPS.  Also, I have all cars and anything else in the control panel that would add to the FPS hit turned off.

[tubbsds]

Ok I think I have found the culprit.  I usually run AA at 4xSSAA.  I changed this to 4xMSAA and the FPS shot up to the mid to upper 20s.  Back to 4xSSAA and the single digits returned.

 

I don't understand why I can run 4xSSAA everywhere else with DL but not at KSAN.  4xMSAA does not look good to me so it is like picking the lesser of 3 evils.... DL with bad FPS, DL with bad AA or no DL,  

 

Is there anything that yall are doing with DL that might negatively interact with AA at SSAA?  Hope I am giving you at least some info that will help!

 

Dave

[gregoryv]

6 hours ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

Hi Dave,

 

I will investigate a little bit more, but mine DL effect is not very different than other developers. I have understood you have more fps with DL in other airport ( also big and heavy airport ) but i think KSAN is very particular. For example if you active road traffic in KSAN at least from our tests we get very bad performance, and for example road traffic at other airports it does not negatively affect performance like in KSAN. Anyway at my end ( without any addon a part ORBX products with or without DL at KSAN i have about the same perfomance ), but i think if you are using KSAN with a lot of addons and heavy aircraft in this already heavy airport on the sistem have bad performance is something you should expect.

This doesn't mean i will not investigate more into this to see if there is a solution ( if there is a concrete problem ).

 

ps. which is your pc's spec?

 

At the moment this all I  can say and all I can do.

 

Regards, Matteo

 

 

Hi Matteo,

 

For me it is a huge difference. My PC specs: 6700K oc to  4.4GHz, GTX 1080. P3D V4.2

I have no issues with DL with other developers add ons such as: FlyTampa, FlightBeam, Aersoft,

but KSAN is not usable for me after update. I get ~45 FPS on day and ~14 FPS on evening/ night.

 

 

[Matteo Veneziani]

3 hours ago, tubbsds said:

Ok I think I have found the culprit.  I usually run AA at 4xSSAA.  I changed this to 4xMSAA and the FPS shot up to the mid to upper 20s.  Back to 4xSSAA and the single digits returned.

 

I don't understand why I can run 4xSSAA everywhere else with DL but not at KSAN.  4xMSAA does not look good to me so it is like picking the lesser of 3 evils.... DL with bad FPS, DL with bad AA or no DL,  

 

Is there anything that yall are doing with DL that might negatively interact with AA at SSAA?  Hope I am giving you at least some info that will help!

 

Dave

Hi again Dave,

 

at the moment i can suggest to use DL with bad AA, i remember some topics where people were bad fps with DL due to high setting of AA.

Anyway I will investigate more if there is some way to optimize the DL. For sure i will add an option to the cp to turned off the DL at KSAN.

46 minutes ago, gregoryv said:

Hi Matteo,

 

For me it is a huge difference. My PC specs: 6700K oc to  4.4GHz, GTX 1080. P3D V4.2

I have no issues with DL with other developers add ons such as: FlyTampa, FlightBeam, Aersoft,

but KSAN is not usable for me after update. I get ~45 FPS on day and ~14 FPS on evening/ night.

 

 

Hi gregoryv,

 

the same for you, try DL with lower setting for AA.

 

Regards,

[Terblanche]

On my rig P3D4.2 gets a CTD when trying to fly in or out of KSAN at night ...

and I don't seem to find the DL on/off switch in FTC control panel for this scenery?

Have disabled the two DL reference files in the scenery folder but still CTD after loading KSAN - again, at night.

<sigh>

[Matteo Veneziani]

Hi, 

 

these are screens from one of the beta tester,

as you can see if you want to have good performance at Ksan you need to set 4xMSAA.

 

I hope you can understand you have to find a compromise to run this scenery smoothly.

Anyway in the next weeks will be another update with option for static aircraft and the possibility to remove DL in the cp, and MAYBE some other little improvement.

At the moment this is all what i can do, and about the DL this I think it's the best I can do.

For CTD's i don't have nothing different than the other post to say, CTD's can occurs more ofter if you are using heavy scenery like KSAN with many addons and high grapich setting.

 

8 x SSAA, dynamic lighting. 

 

 

4 x MSAA, dynamic lighting

 

 

4 x MSAA, NO dynamic lighting

 

 

 

 

[gregoryv]

Hi Matteo,

 

I have much worse results.

First picture: 8xMSAA - 12.7fps

Second: 4XMSAA - 13.5fps

 

 

 

Gregory

 

[tubbsds]

Matteo,

Ok thanks for looking at this.  I hope yall can find something to do to make the DL work better with 4xSSAA.  I know it can be done as other developers have somehow come up with a way.  I would love to be able to see your wonderful airport in all its glory at night!  

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

Dave

[Matteo Veneziani]

1 hour ago, gregoryv said:

Hi Matteo,

 

I have much worse results.

First picture: 8xMSAA - 12.7fps

Second: 4XMSAA - 13.5fps

 

 

 

Gregory

 

Do you have dynamic reflection activated?

 

[gregoryv]

Just now, Matteo Veneziani said:

Do you have dynamic reflection activated?

 

In the sim? of course. Otherwise I will not have lights on the PMDG aircrafts.

[Matteo Veneziani]

Just now, gregoryv said:

In the sim? of course. Otherwise I will not have lights on the PMDG aircrafts.

I'm not referring to DL but to dynamic reflection ( for example you see the sim mirrored in the windows ).

Dynamic reflection is a fps killer

[gregoryv]

19 minutes ago, Matteo Veneziani said:

I'm not referring to DL but to dynamic reflection ( for example you see the sim mirrored in the windows ).

Dynamic reflection is a fps killer

Ahhh. No sir, Dynamic reflections are off in the sim.

[gregoryv]

Hi Matteo,

 

Any news about update?

 

Gregory

[kdfw]

ksan dynamic lights with msaa is still a performance hog...  using 1080ti and it's quite bad.   the developer/testers should've checked the fps performance by parking a decent complexity aircraft near the terminal under the dynamic lights while in the vc view pointing to as many dynamic light sources.  

 

having option to turn off dl here would be a good start. 

 

also, ksan phtoreal around the airport is still dark compared to the photoreal of  orbx socal.  as this is published by the same company, should have access to the same source images to get a perfect match, no?