airports at the wrong coordinates

[dominique]

Looking at airports in various parts of the world, I wonder what kind of data base the GIS "Aces" guy at Microsoft  used to  to misplace airports, so very often, several hundred of meters ! There is a tool for ADE to move airports that you've to buy. It is cheap enoug but does it work well  and without side effects?

[Sylvain Delepierre]

Hi Dominique,

 

No need to buy any tool, the free version of ADE can do that. Just click and drag the ARP and move the runway and the tower view. You probably will have to delete the taxi-links and create new ones. 

 

I had this problem with one of my freeware airports (LILH Rivanazzano) witch was 1 kilometer offset.

[dominique]

Noted, Sylvain, thanks ! Will try on a remote island first  !

[jabble]

I'm finding a lot of that - airfields halfway up hillsides and in thick forest, especially on remote islands!  However, I've avoided that so far, as it looks like it will involve a lot of work positioning it in its proper home, with flattens, excludes, etc.

[dominique]

I am doing one as an exercise  ! WADB, groovy volcanoes around  !

[jabble]

I am doing one as an exercise  ! WADB, groovy volcanoes around  !

Bravo! Excellent for Tambora especially!

[dominique]

Now if it wasn't for these pesky giant lizards...

[jabble]

Dragonflow... now that would be a challenge!

[dominique]

Hi Dominique,

 

No need to buy any tool, the free version of ADE can do that. Just click and drag the ARP and move the runway and the tower view. You probably will have to delete the taxi-links and create new ones. 

 

I had this problem with one of my freeware airports (LILH Rivanazzano) witch was 1 kilometer offset.

 

Well, I move the ARP (dragging or manually entering new coordinates), the runway and the tower all right (WADB doesn't have taxi links) but I've still the green layer below the airport, that I can't see in ADE, which does not move with the others no matter what I do  ...

[Nick Cooper]

You'll have to add a new one I'm afraid.

Also a flatten and you will often need to

go back to the original location and exclude

the airport background (the green bit and the

flatten).

If you don't you will probably see a blank area

of grass and perhaps a plateau where the old

airport used to be.

[dominique]

You'll have to add a new one I'm afraid.

Also a flatten and you will often need to

go back to the original location and exclude

the airport background (the green bit and the

flatten).

If you don't you will probably see a blank area

of grass and perhaps a plateau where the old

airport used to be.

 

Hi Nick and thanks

 

Yes, I've a meadow where the old runway was

 

I wanted to do a new terrain polygon anyway to match the real one but I didn't think about excluding  the old excluder. Now, I still  don't have much success. Yet, I did it with a large spoon as the original underlayer does not show up in ADE...    Back to the manual. Will look again after diner.

[Nick Cooper]

There is certainly a very great deal to learn.

I probably know about 5% of what I would need

to if I were to set out to create a new airport of any

quality.

 

I have made several dozen very basic ones for Iceland

and spent hundreds of hours trying to relocate most of

the default Colombian ones, several of which were also

hundreds of feet too high once any kind of mesh was added.

 

That's another point, be sure that when you are creating your

new airport, the mesh you plan to use is active.

If not, as I have certainly done before, your new creation will

suddenly look a complete mess when the addon mesh is activated.

[dominique]

There is certainly a very great deal to learn.

I probably know about 5% of what I would need

to if I were to set out to create a new airport of any

quality.

 

I have made several dozen very basic ones for Iceland

and spent hundreds of hours trying to relocate most of

the default Colombian ones, several of which were also

hundreds of feet too high once any kind of mesh was added.

 

That's another point, be sure that when you are creating your

new airport, the mesh you plan to use is active.

If not, as I have certainly done before, your new creation will

suddenly look a complete mess when the addon mesh is activated.

 

OK I have it. It is not the exclusion rectangle to use but the terrain polygon tool with some specific exclusion options ! The meadow is gone. I chose an airport at almost sea level, so crossing the fingers as I've to do a little flatten now to do with a new airport polygon !

 

You know, there's something to say for all these usually ignored smaller aiports in Colombia or Indonesia or Elsewheristan. No need for the whole OrbX shebang. Global and Vector makes certain areas very flyable now and these airports need a little cosmetic touching, like the OrbX freeware in the US or Europe.  I will give it a shot for the fun of it if I can understand how the machine ticks.

 

Did you publish your Colombian airports ? I wouldn't know as I've rarely flown in Latin America (a mistake, I'm sure...).  

 

Another question is do you use IS3 ? How does it compare to ADE ?

[Nick Cooper]

No, Dominique, I never published the Colombian airfields,

they aren't really good enough.

Also no to IS3 I'm afraid, perhaps my estimate of knowing

5% was a little optimistic....

[jabble]

Is there any best strategy for coping with the fact that different people have different meshes?  Or is it a case that an airport can only cope with one mesh, i.e. a different version for each mesh used?

[dominique]

OK, today's work     

 

The airport moved across the river where it is in reality (and neither the river nor the road run over it anymore), was flattened at a new altitude so the small plateau I created in the move is no more. The old sublayer is gone. I put a small terminal with a tarmac. New markings on the RW and an overrun. It is far, far from what I want but thanks a lot Sylvain and Nick you helped me to go quicker thant I thought. ADE is a good program too. Now, tell me, guys, your secret. How do I select out of my 8338 library objects, most of them without thumbnail, what I need ?

 

Before

 

After

[Sylvain Delepierre]

A quick guide to explain how I make my airport upgrades.

 

1. Launch the sim and go to the airport you want to upgrade. Use slew mode and top down view to place your aircraft in the middle of the airport and don't forget to go heading 360°. Take a screenshot (not the V key, just PrintScreen), paste it in you favorite painting program and save the image as JPG.

 

2. In ADE, open the stock airport and add the image you have just taken. Place it carefully below the runway to make it match exactly the size of the runway. You will probably need to resize the image. Don't forget to tick "preserve aspect ratio".

 

3. Use the Add polygon tool and draw a rectangle around the default airport background. Choose type >Exclude General and tag>Airport backgrounds. This will exclude the green grass rectangle and the flatten polygons.

 

4. Google Earth or Bing maps are now your best friends. I use this http://www.flashearth.com/ I find it very easy with the little crosshair that points the exact coordinates. Take a screenshot of the real world image, save it and add it as a background in ADE. You must be very precise and patient here and make sure your image is geographically correctly placed. Choose at least 2 points in your image (a corner of the runway or an apron), use position markers in ADE and set the coordinates by drag then move/resize your background image. Remember your image has to be very precisely positioned before you continue.

 

5. Use the Add polygon tool to draw a polygon type>Airport background , tag>Flatten. Make sure the flatten covers all the runways, taxis and apron network. I should not bother with sloped polygons at this stage. 

 

6. Draw a landclass polygon that fits the real world one of type airfield or grass.

 

7. You can now start drawing your taxi network, parking, aprons and voila.

[dominique]

Very neat and useful, thanks for taking the time to write it, Sylvain !

 

That was much, much messier on my side, trials and errors. First day... I used a background image out of Google Earth to calibrate the new position with coordinates given by Rhumbamaps. The airport is repositioned where it should be now (cf. my last post).

 

About point 6 : is there a way to stick into the polygon, a cut out image of the actual ground, instead of a landclass ?  And again how do you pick up objects out of the many thousands without thumbnail ?

[Sylvain Delepierre]

OK, today's work     

 

The airport moved across the river where it is in reality (and neither the river nor the road run over it anymore), was flattened at a new altitude so the small plateau I created in the move is no more. The old sublayer is gone. I put a small terminal with a tarmac. New markings on the RW and an overrun. It is far, far from what I want but thanks a lot Sylvain and Nick you helped me to go quicker thant I thought. ADE is a good program too. Now, tell me, guys, your secret. How do I select out of my 8338 library objects, most of them without thumbnail, what I need ?

 

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Good start Dominique.

 

WADB needs to be disabled in Vector AEC to restore the default FSX elevation of 21.34m (witch is completely incorrect). I would check this before changing the airport altitude.

 

Placing librery objects with ADE is a nightmare. I recommend you get Instant Scenery, much easier and faster 

[dominique]

Good start Dominique.

 

WADB needs to be disabled in Vector AEC to restore the default FSX elevation of 21.34m (witch is completely incorrect). I would check this before changing the airport altitude.

 

Placing librery objects with ADE is a nightmare. I recommend you get Instant Scenery, much easier and faster 

 

Hmmm, I didn't think to disable it in AEC... Thanks for reminding me. I lowered the elevation to 10 feet to fit into the Ultimate mesh.

 

About placing objects, I was afraid you'd say that  ! 

[Sylvain Delepierre]

I lowered the elevation to 10 feet to fit into the Ultimate mesh.

 

 

Remember not everybody has the same addon mesh as yours and many use the default mesh. If you want your airport to be exported you'll have to think globally. I usually test with default mesh and ultimate mesh and I create sloping polygons to make the surroundings of the airport fit as much as possible with both.

 

However in this case the default airport elevation is really bad so maybe you're right.

[dominique]

Remember not everybody has the same addon mesh as yours and many use the default mesh. If you want your airport to be exported you'll have to think globally. I usually test with default mesh and ultimate mesh and I create sloping polygons to make the surroundings of the airport fit as much as possible with both.

 

However in this case the default airport elevation is really bad so maybe you're right.

My lowering the altitude was more a trials and errors trick than a pondered though, you know ! 10 feet is the average given by roaming the cursor over the runway in the GE image. About testing the default mesh, I thought of that but cannot export itin any case if I use the OrbX objects... Anyway, at that stage, this is for me an exercise in learning the how tos. We'll see later if I can do something reasonably nice. Who want to fly in Sumbawa anyway  ?

[Sylvain Delepierre]

 Who want to fly in Sumbawa anyway  ?

 

I just made a quick flight over WADB. That's exactly the king of landscape I like. I 'm sure it would be a very appreciated region with upgraded airports. In fact I think most of us love to fly over any region as long as the scenery is nice.

[jabble]

 Who want to fly in Sumbawa anyway  ?

I do!  It's my real-life Lesser Sunda gap (been to Lombok & Flores), so a sim version with an improved airport would be very welcome.  Could there be the potential of a community project for the region?

[dominique]

I do!  It's my real-life Lesser Sunda gap (been to Lombok & Flores), so a sim version with an improved airport would be very welcome.  Could there be the potential of a community project for the region?

 

I thought of that but isn't that a case of what we call in French Prouver le mouvement en marchant (to walk to prove a motion). WADA or WADS, West of Bima, at a GA distance, would be nice sister airports...

[jabble]

Fair enough!  One at a time...

[dominique]

I just made a quick flight over WADB. That's exactly the king of landscape I like. I 'm sure it would be a very appreciated region with upgraded airports. In fact I think most of us love to fly over any region as long as the scenery is nice.

Yes it is nice but I can't wait to have, one day, wet paddy fields as a texture.  I suspectT that this area looks like a blanket of mirror shards from the sky, as I see from some photos. Jabble may confirm, I've never went East of Bali, myself. 

[jabble]

I don't know Sumbawa at all, but the other Lesser Sundas are quite diverse - a lot of rugged highlands, but also lowlands with agriculture and sometimes expanses of rice paddies where the rivers support them.

 

Flores & Lombok are part of that volcanic chain, with a string of craters, vents & lakes; e.g. Rinjani has an active crater in a lake of an old crater, next to another higher crater, and Keli Mutu has several coloured acidic lakes. Sumba & Timor are geologically different and their ruggedness is due to upthrust & erosion - you can find coral 'rocks' way up in the hills there.

 

On one flight over western Flores I noticed a number of strange circular fields, divided up like a pie.  They were always alone, surrounded by regular rectangular fields.  A local guy explained they were symbolic plots, part of a tradition where they are divided up depending on social priority, at particular ceremonial occasions.

 

Sumba is like two very different places - the north & east is dry, rugged high plateaux cut by numerous gorges, whereas the west is much wetter and has numerous traditional villages (with authentic wood & thatch double-sloped roofs, not the aluminium copies) surrounded by agriculture, paddies included.

 

Timor is also pretty rugged; there is a dry coastal strip in the north, but much of the agriculture is there as many rivers flow that way.  A wetter southern plain too.  The East Timor highlands reminded me of Scotland - misty and mysterious, but with herds of horses running across grasslands.  The appropriately named Mundo Perdido mountain really did feel like a lost world.

 

However, the biggest expanse of paddies I saw was near Makassar in southern Sulawesi, and it looked spectacular from the air!  Exactly like a reflecting multi-coloured quilt.

 

In terms of visual appearance, I found Indonesia (& neighbours) one of the most diverse and interesting places to see from above.  And pretty fascinating on the ground too.

[Sylvain Delepierre]

I don't know Sumbawa at all, but the other Lesser Sundas are quite diverse - a lot of rugged highlands, but also lowlands with agriculture and sometimes expanses of rice paddies where the rivers support them.

 

Flores & Lombok are part of that volcanic chain, with a string of craters, vents & lakes; e.g. Rinjani has an active crater in a lake of an old crater, next to another higher crater, and Keli Mutu has several coloured acidic lakes. Sumba & Timor are geologically different and their ruggedness is due to upthrust & erosion - you can find coral 'rocks' way up in the hills there.

 

On one flight over western Flores I noticed a number of strange circular fields, divided up like a pie.  They were always alone, surrounded by regular rectangular fields.  A local guy explained they were symbolic plots, part of a tradition where they are divided up depending on social priority, at particular ceremonial occasions.

 

Sumba is like two very different places - the north & east is dry, rugged high plateaux cut by numerous gorges, whereas the west is much wetter and has numerous traditional villages (with authentic wood & thatch double-sloped roofs, not the aluminium copies) surrounded by agriculture, paddies included.

 

Timor is also pretty rugged; there is a dry coastal strip in the north, but much of the agriculture is there as many rivers flow that way.  A wetter southern plain too.  The East Timor highlands reminded me of Scotland - misty and mysterious, but with herds of horses running across grasslands.  The appropriately named Mundo Perdido mountain really did feel like a lost world.

 

However, the biggest expanse of paddies I saw was near Makassar in southern Sulawesi, and it looked spectacular from the air!  Exactly like a reflecting multi-coloured quilt.

 

In terms of visual appearance, I found Indonesia (& neighbours) one of the most diverse and interesting places to see from above.  And pretty fascinating on the ground too.

 

Mount Rinjani looks fabulous. And there are a couple of airports in the neighborhood that look very nice on Google Earth. It would really be worth to make some indonesian packs guys.

[dominique]

Indonesia is attractive, in the sim, because of its many volcanoes and the myriads of islands. And I found that the Scenery Tech Indo-Pacific landclass was a not too bad interim solution for OpenLC Asia )

[jabble]

If my impatience gets the better of me, I'll look at that

 

For the "world traveller" simmer, Indonesia has the potential to be an outstanding area.  However, if economics are based on the "fly at home" customers, then a commercial full-fat region won't be economically viable, so the only option is for some sort of community development to enhance what is possible.  As there are a number of misplaced airfields, and many smaller ones not even in the sim, that seems as good a place to start as any.