rafgath Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 After installing FTX Norway you can see in FSX Flight Planner that the most of airports in Norway (I didn't check all) now have ILS data for runways that do not normally have it. e.g. ENDU (runway 10), ENML (runway 25). I don't have any other addons installed apart from listed in signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi, Which information are you considering as wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KORDATC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 On those runways those airports have a Localizer approach in real life. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe FSX displays Localizer as an ILS frequency. Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Rob, Localizer is a component of the ILS See here for more info: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_Landing_System and here for ILS RWY 07 in ENML charts: https://www.ippc.no/norway_aip2/current/AIP/AD/ENML/enml_no.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hi mate, Usually the "FACILITY INFORMATION" tells two ILS frequencies, but, referring to the airport SID, we see that one of those "ILS" is only Localizer and / or DME. So it is always necessary to consult the local SID. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafgath Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Richard Bui - As you can see in attached screenshot we have ILS data for ENML rwy 25 (ILS freq and ILS hdg) but in reality there is no ILS on runway 25. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KORDATC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Rob, Localizer is a component of the ILS See here for more info: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_Landing_System and here for ILS RWY 07 in ENML charts: https://www.ippc.no/norway_aip2/current/AIP/AD/ENML/enml_no.html I understand that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fsx menu doesn't label a Localizer as a Localizer - it labels it as an ILS. However, if you load up the sim and tune in the Localizer frequency, you will only get Localizer signals and you will not get glideslope signals(which is correct). It's just a labeling issue in fsx. This is why I always use real charts instead of the fsx map info. Rest assured, the developers at Orbx have gotten it correct. Cheers, Rob Richard Bui - As you can see in attached screenshot we have ILS data for ENML rwy 25 (ILS freq and ILS hdg) but in reality there is no ILS on runway 25. Regards, It's just a labeling issue in fsx. (see above) Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Richard Bui - As you can see in attached screenshot we have ILS data for ENML rwy 25 (ILS freq and ILS hdg) but in reality there is no ILS on runway 25. Regards, OK I see. I focused on the RW 7 and forgot the RW 25. Be more explicit next time, not just posting a picture and telling look there is a problem. We cannot guess what you have in mind. Hope the NOR team will take in account of this point for next release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafgath Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Richard Bui - That's what I did. Anyway, this problem occurs not only in ENML but in the most of airports in Norway where at least one of runways has ILS approach procedure (e.g. ENDU rwy10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KORDATC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Richard Bui - That's what I did. Anyway, this problem occurs not only in ENML but in the most of airports in Norway where at least one of runways has ILS approach procedure (e.g. ENDU rwy10). Like I said before, there is no problem with FTX EU Nor. The only problem is the way FSX is coded. The FSX map will never show a "localizer freq" and "localizer hdg". It will always label them as an ILS. In real life all of those airports you reference have an ILS approach on one runway and a localizer approach for the opposite runway. In the case of ENML, in real life runway 7 has an ILS and Runway 25 has a localizer approach. FTX EU Nor is true to life in this respect. You can see for yourself by loading up any aircraft with a nav receiver and tuning in the localizer frequency "labeled incorrectly in FSX as an ILS frequency" of 119.100 for RWY 25 at ENML. You will notice that you do receive a localizer indication but not a glidepath indication. If you tune in the ILS frequency "correctly labeled in FSX" of 119.700 for RWY 07 at ENML, you will receive both a localizer indication and a glidepath indication since this is an ILS just like in real life. All in all it's important to remember that the developers of FTX EU Norway got this all correct. This isn't an issue and there is nothing that the developers can do to fix this(Unless they somehow were able to change the code of FSX, which I don't think is possible). Hope this helps, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafgath Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 KORDATC Thank you for explanation. Sorry but I missed your previous post. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KORDATC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The only problem I found with FTX EU Nor at ENML is that the ILS frequency for RWY 07 should be 109.750 instead of 109.700. I've referenced my Jeppesen charts, the Avinor charts, and the Navtech charts and they all say that it is 109.750. Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thank you Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KORDATC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 No problem Richard! Glad I could help! Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The only problem I found with FTX EU Nor at ENML is that the ILS frequency for RWY 07 should be 109.750 instead of 109.700. I've referenced my Jeppesen charts, the Avinor charts, and the Navtech charts and they all say that it is 109.750. Cheers, Rob This is correct. Such info is always updated to recent in my Airports of Norway freeware package. Speaking about this, I just checked ENTO. ORBX has understood this airport now has two ILS transmitters. But I also see the classic fault, due to stupid FSX logic: When an ILS is added, FSX places the ILS-DME in line with the runway, far outside the runway ends. This is totally whacked. TDZ in the woods? For most of the Norwegian (and world) airports, the ILS-DME should be placed by the touchdown point (TDZ), very close to the ILS Glideslope transmitter and/or PAPI lights. This info can easily be seen in the AIP Norway Aerodrome charts, and you will find the exact geo coordinates in the AIP text pages. These coordinates can be put directly into Airport Design Editor this way: AIP: 581212.47N / 0080434.89E In ADE: 58 12 12.47N / 08 04 34.89E It is with this method I nail the runway thresholds for all my projects. As well as the parkings and GS transmitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KORDATC Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 This is correct. Such info is always updated to recent in my Airports of Norway freeware package. Speaking about this, I just checked ENTO. ORBX has understood this airport now has two ILS transmitters. But I also see the classic fault, due to stupid FSX logic: When an ILS is added, FSX places the ILS-DME in line with the runway, far outside the runway ends. This is totally whacked. For most of the Norwegian (and world) airports, the ILS-DME should be placed by the touchdown point (TDZ), very close to the ILS Glideslope transmitter and/or PAPI lights. This info can easily be seen in the AIP Norway Aerodrome charts, and you will find the exact geo coordinates in the AIP text pages. These coordinates can be put directly into Airport Design Editor this way: AIP: 581212.47N / 0080434.89E In ADE: 58 12 12.47N / 08 04 34.89E It is with this method I nail the runway thresholds for all my projects. Awesome! If I'd have to ask for anything in the SP1 it'd be for all of these small things such as nav aids and approach aids to get fixed. Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Agreed, Rob. I have to admit I am not the right guy to help out with checking, as I only use my own airports. But at least I have told ORBX how to nail runways and other things. Sorry I did not think of this before, but I loose much, as I work half the year at sea, often isolated from communications. Anyway, I'll be around for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Don't feel sorry Andrew. That's a good point to focus on for next. I admit myself I ignored FSX behaves like that with navaids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thanks Richard. For the comment, and the scenery I have been waiting for since FS5. It will be great to get these DME's at the right place. The FSX placement routine has tricked many designers for a long time. The good thing is, this is easy to fix with a few mouse clicks, and tons of coffee. I've had my own "going through 32 airports again" fixing routines more than I like to mention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thanks Richard. For the comment, and the scenery I have been waiting for since FS5. It will be great to get these DME's at the right place. The FSX placement routine has tricked many designers for a long time. The good thing is, this is easy to fix with a few mouse clicks, and tons of coffee. I've had my own "going through 32 airports again" fixing routines more than I like to mention! Andrew, can you share the list of these 32 airports (and maybe more) where DME was updated ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Here's the list for Airports of Norway. But I cannot right now, pinpoint which airports I have adjusted the DME's for. But from my head I can say default ENGM has them correct, had to add one ILS for ENTO Rwy 36 (today SFJ and Rwy 18 has changed from TP to TRP), had to change the frequency (as discussed here) for ENML, had to add a DME for ENZV, added new ILS at ENHD. I have also corrected a few of the smaller airports up North. It is now I regret I never made a corrections list. Dagali ENDI Oslo Gardermoen ENGM Kjeller ENKJ Moss Rygge ENRY Sandefjord Torp ENTO Kristiansand Kjevik ENCN Farsund Lista ENLI Stavanger Sola ENZV Haugesund Karmøy ENHD Stord Sørstokken ENSO Bergen Flesland ENBR Voss Bømoen ENBM Ålesund Vigra ENAL Molde Årø ENML Kristiansund Kvernberget ENKB Sogndal Haukåsen ENSG Namsos ENNM Brønnøysund ENBN Sandnessjøen Stokka ENST Mosjøen Kjærstad ENMS Bodø ENBO Svolvær Helle ENSH Leknes ENLK Tromsø Langnes ENTC Skagen Stokmarknes ENSK Hasvik ENHK Bardufoss ENDU Alta ENAT Hammerfest ENHF Lakselv Banak ENNA Båtsfjord ENBS Vardø Svartnes ENSS Kirkenes ENKR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 PS: For ENTO, check AD 2.19: https://www.ippc.no/norway_aip/current/aip/ad/ento/EN_AD_2_ENTO_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 PS(2). Hope you are aware most runways in Norway today are longer than before. I took a peek at your version of ENKB. The runway is too short, and very much offset sideways. I think that lenghtening was about 2.4 million cubic meters of rock. We not only have mountains here, we also move them, or make them hollow, in order to store oil. This picture shows the dramatic changes at ENKB with my AoN package. It also gives a hint regarding landclass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Good, Andrew! I like that: a true collaboration between all interested parties. We all win: the simmers and developers! Thank you very much! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Thomsen Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thank you too, Voyager. I need to hear such now and then. Keeps me going. And if I have not said this before, let me at least repeat it: I have been waiting for this since FS5. ORBX is the first that paid proper attention to the subject. The circle is now complete. But everyone should also know this: Norway have for decades, been selling crap data for tons of money. The one to blame is uhhh - somehow "local". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconrae Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Andrew, Thank you for your Airports of Norway. Referring to my post on 18th December, do you know if it is possible and how I could implement a localiser for the Rwy 06 approach into ENSG as per AIP? Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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