Emergency Landing

[Ja50n01]

Check this Emergency Landing Out,

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20081126/video/vwl-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-la-15af341.html

Nicely Done if I do say so Myself 

[awright]

Yes very neat. Pilot kept his cool. Wonder what happened to cause it?

Alex

[Sniper31]

I'll bet that was a bit harrowing indeed! Nice work holding the nose up as long as possible. The audio mentioned something about the nose wheel not locking when the pilot lowered the gear.

[Singletracker]

Looked a little shonky if you asked me \

Approach unstable

Asymmetric at some stage on short final

Playing with the starters at 50ft!

banging the tail on the ground

All for saving two props? lucky he didn't stall and kill everyone, by the look of the flare manoeuvre he was pretty close.

[Sniper31]

Looked a little shonky if you asked me \

Approach unstable

Asymmetric at some stage on short final

Playing with the starters at 50ft!

banging the tail on the ground

All for saving two props? lucky he didn't stall and kill everyone, by the look of the flare manoeuvre he was pretty close.

Those durned private pilots...lol

[squeeker]

Looked a little shonky if you asked me \

Approach unstable

Asymmetric at some stage on short final

Playing with the starters at 50ft!

banging the tail on the ground

All for saving two props? lucky he didn't stall and kill everyone, by the look of the flare manoeuvre he was pretty close.

100% agreed. Let the engines run. The insurance company owns the plane till it's tied down. I can't fathom risking your life like that to save an engine. And no option for a go-round. sheesh

[skypilot]

Looked a little shonky if you asked me \

All for saving two props? lucky he didn't stall and kill everyone, by the look of the flare manoeuvre he was pretty close.

Those durned private pilots...lol

Yes it did look shonky might have been a bit slow that is why he put the nose so high to arrest the rate of descent and scraped the tail (apart from trying to keep the nose off the deck too for as long as possible..) I think it normal procedure to shut down the engines thereby minimising the risk of fire.

You do not just save the props by shutting down ( reduce fir risk too) but any time there is a prop strike the the engine/s have to be fully dismantled and give a thorough inspection so it is not just saving the props, notwithstanding you insurance comment.

[PeanutButterJelly]

i could see that their left engine stopped before he even touched the ground

[squeeker]

Extract from Cessna 310 Pilots Operating Handbook:

Also that's one way to get to land on One Six Right 

[randy]

I was watching that live on Fox News here in the states when it started. He flew around quite a while to get rid of some fuel. The small video does not do the thing justice. I don't know about the turning of the props....a consultant for one of the news channels said they did that to keep a prop from striking the ground and causing damage to the plane..thus people. All I know is, in watching that, and see him turn those props until they were not vertical, and keep that plane in the air he had to be one cool guy and or...probably both...very experienced.

[Singletracker]

You do not just save the props by shutting down ( reduce fir risk too) but any time there is a prop strike the the engine/s have to be fully dismantled and give a thorough inspection so it is not just saving the props, notwithstanding you insurance comment.

Yeah I'm aware of the engine strip and rebuild, the point being trying to align the props to avoid a prop strike while flying an approach is shonky. This guy proved it by getting unstable on the approach, probably because he was distracted. Note his descent angle and touchdown point. He was really slow.

If he had of flown a normal approach and touched down smoothly he would have gently lowered the nose to the runway with plenty of elevator authority and control, had minor scrapes on the nose no damage to the tail and probably no engine damage just two new props.

There is some debate whether shutting the engines down "after landing" while on the landing roll is of any value until the aircraft has stopped on the runway as this distracts from the primary task of maintaining center line tracking.

As Squeeker posted above for the C310 you don't do it on unprepared or rough surfaces anyway because a rotating prop wont dig in, it just bends.

Fire risk is pretty remote if you have the electrics off prior the landing, if you concentrate on the landing, there is less chance of causing damage to the Fuel system/Tanks.

If it was me, I would have made a normal approach, once Visual with a landing clearance shut down everything bar the engines and Magnetos.

Landed normally, with the throttles closed held of the nose until I had to lower it. normal braking

pulling up to a stop, closed the mixtures, turn off the magnetos. Open the door and get out.

My two cents  

[tim_A]

Hopefully it was just a foreshortening effect in the video, but that landing looked awfully steep, and alarmingly close to the beginning of the runway -- he landed on the undershoot and had stopped before reaching the numbers! I'd be much more concerned with making the runway, and keeping alive the option of a go around. What if he'd experienced unexpected sink on the approach, and stuffed it in before the runway?

Of course it may have been his passenger/copilot that was cranking the props level (they still bent on landing, so nothing was gained!), but single pilot, I'd have enough to worry about landing the plane without faffing with the props. People's lives and safety are way more important - you can always buy/rent another plane.

[Ja50n01]

I take my hat off to him, at the end of the day they both went home to there Families and it stopped very quickly before hitting the numbers.

Without the hard fact's and also experiencing the fear of being in the same circumstamces, I refuse to comment on whether or not it was a by the book or a Good or Bad landing.

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing lol 

[Divot]

Remember the ilot's code:

Takeoffs are optional, landings are compulsory ... 

[Iain Emms]

Very well done another brown trouser moment, But lets not forget how this could have turned out for those invoved. Anything like that and you walk away is the main thing.

cheers

Iain.

[Singletracker]

it stopped very quickly before hitting the numbers.

LOL it stopped by the threshold on the approach end of the runway, there must have been at least a Kilometer or two of runway remaining  , at least the undershoot got used for landing at least once 

Just watched it again, Tim_A is right he got both props anyway  . Oh well, nothing a good post flight self assessment wouldn't fix.

[squeeker]

Thanks Jason for posting the link and firing up the discussion.

I've read a couple of times (and now can't find the articles to back me up), that statistically your chances of being killed or injured in a "wheels up" landing on a sealed runway are virtually zero. Walking away from this kind of event should always be possible.

The real danger is in the approach phase. By disabling engine(s) before the landing, the opportunity going around is eliminated and fine control of speed and attitude is all but gone. I realise it's a scary stressful situation, and easy to "airmchair quarterback" but this is the kind of thing that is trained for and rehearsed constantly (hopefully) in real aviation.

I hope never to be in that pilot's place for real, and who can say what's running through your head in the final moments before such a landing, but I hope that I would convince myself that the life of my passenger(s) are more important than the aeroplane or it's owners' annoyance. Besides that, I wont take an uninsured plane out in the first place, so the ship should be the last consideration.

I'm sure that my career as a pilot would be much more secure having made the landing "by the book" with bent props,  rather than trying to save the owner a few bucks and in the process killing or injuring a passenger, or stalling into some poor soul in his car driving along the road in the undershoot.. I'm no Bob Hoover* and so maybe if I thought I was I'd be a bit more adventurous in departing from my training and the directions of the POH..

Also Runway 16R at Van Nuys is 2.4km long. I'd suggest that all that porpoising on short final and a touchdown on the undershoot is a direct result of pulling the power way too early rather than concern for running off the far end..

*forgive me for even mentioning Bob's name in the same sentence as mine.

[Agrajag]

and easy to "airmchair quarterback" but this is the kind of thing that is trained for and rehearsed constantly (hopefully) in real aviation.

I think most of us don't do it very regularly, I only started forced landings last week but I said to my instructor that it concerned me that once we get our license then a lot of the emergency training is probably not practiced ever again.  He seemed to agree for the most part, he noted that he practices all the time because of us students.

I think of it this way:

1. Landing gear failure == Emergency (that we train for)

2. Engine failure == Emergency (that we train for)

3. Landing gear and engine failure at the same time == OMG!

Why turn an emergency into an OMG!

ATP pilots practice emergencies but GA and CPL?

[Singletracker]

ATP pilots practice emergencies but GA and CPL?

Not really as synthetic training devices are pretty few and far between for GA, But having a pretty good think about how you would handle an emergency that's listed in the checklist is a pretty good start.

Sqweeker mentioned Armchair Quarterbacking, Sitting in an armchair with the checklist and flying the procedure in your mind was the way I used to do it. (you could probably use FSX these days!) If you got to a point where you had any doubts as to how you would handle it, you would read up on the facts, or call some who knows. Mind you flying 5 different aircraft types on an ad hoc basis doesn't help the situation.

Most guys I knew that got killed flying, killed themselves. Pretty sad actually.

[Ja50n01]

it stopped very quickly before hitting the numbers.

LOL it stopped by the threshold on the approach end of the runway, there must have been at least a Kilometer or two of runway remaining  , at least the undershoot got used for landing at least once 

Just watched it again, Tim_A is right he got both props anyway  . Oh well, nothing a good post flight self assessment wouldn't fix.

Sorry I meant Stopped by the Numbers at the beggining of the runway, I dont fly in RL or even pretend to know how to so my terminology is out. I assume you thought i meant the other end of the runway LOL.

@Squeeker - No worries mate, My uncle is a Ex-Navy Pilot and can fly fixed wing and now mainly Helicopters, When i am in his company and his fellow Pilot friends they all comment on what you should'nt do and should do etc. My Uncle has tought many people to fly and always practices his emergency procedures as it's part of his job, but he has seen many people freeze and forget the basics under pressure and had to take control. That's where i am coming from! so Walking away is a success, was it the best landing NOPE but it was survival for the occupants, Poor Plane though LOL 

If i was flying in RL, i would know my procedures thats for sure

Safe Landings

Jason

[Singletracker]

Sorry I meant Stopped by the Numbers at the beggining of the runway, I dont fly in RL or even pretend to know how to so my terminology is out. I assume you thought i meant the other end of the runway LOL.

Yes that's what I thought you meant. Sorry I misunderstood you. I do agree though, they were lucky they survived.