ACTIVE FSX: ORBX EU + UTX Europe + UK2000 scenery cause too high VAS and OOM

[maddoc]

Hi gentlemen,

i'm a great proud customer of your scenery products, i love it very very much. In my signature you can see only some of my ORBX scenery orders, but i have all your products...also new zealand and usa/canada and i'm very happy about them.

Now i'm writing specifically about the use of ORBX England and Wales and UTX Europe.

I state that my post is not intended as a criticism, but only the desire to try to improve for the benefit of all your enthusiastic consumers like me and for the benefit of the flight simulator comunity.

I know you notice that many users reports some OOM crash due to high VAS when using ORBX England with UTX Europe and UK2000 scenery.

I'd like to share with you my personale experience.

You can see my system in my signature.....i see you trust i have good power in my system to use your scenery in FSX with UTX Europe.

Every IFR or VFR flight i perform in the UK terrain, from a UK2000 airport using your ORBX EU, and UTX Europe and Wales crash due to OOM from too high VAS.

If i disable ORBX EU manteining active UTX Europe or i disable UTX Europe manteining active ORBX EU the same flight doesn't crash because i have a significative less VAS and so i'll not reach the limit to obtain OOM.

I'd like to perform some better tests to be more scientific in my observation.

Until now i can only try some tests flights disabling only UTX Europe Roads and i got equally OOM due to too much high VAS. I hope the problem was in UTX Europe.

Now as soon as i hope to try a flight only disabling UTX Europe nights lights ( i know that your american scenery had some similar problems with UTX USA night light ).

I ask you: the UTX night texture can create conflict with your ORBX EU scenery also if i perform the flight in the day time??

I'd like to be more scientific so if you have any suggest to perform my test please show me...tell me!!

In this italian post http://www.volovirtuale.com/showthread.php?25558-De-Bello-Memoriae-ovvero-la-mia-guerra-contro-gli-OOM-(lungo-e-noioso-ma-)&highlight=bello+memoriae in the first page you'll find another italian simmer that made some test using ORBX EU and UTX europe. He had the same my observations: OOM Crash using both ORBX and UTX, and no crash without using or ORBX or UTX.....if you want i can translate the first post for you

I'd like to help you to in making more compatible your scenery and UTX Europe.

At the moment expecially to perform an IFR flight to or from UK i had to choose: or i use ORBX scenery or i use UTX scenery.

I'd like to don't have to choose between these two very important add on in my FSX!!

Last observation : this not complete compatibility between ORBX regional scenery and UTX Europe can create also other more problems when you'll release FTX Global.

Thank you very much for your attention

best regards

Enrico Merolla

[maddoc]

Hi everybody,

I completed an IFR test: flight LEIB-EGCC

In both flights the FSX video settings are that you recommend in your scenery manual, traffic AI is set to 80%, the airplane is PMDG737NGX and all flight is flown in virtual cockpit

First flight was done with ORBX EU active and UTX Europe active except the roads layer

Second flight was done with ORBX EU deactivated and UTX Europe active except the roads layer

The weather conditions were the same in both flights, and also the approach procedure to rwy23R in Manchester . The flights were flown in day time

In the first flight I had an OOM due to full VAS on short final landing 23R EGCC

in the second flight the vas stays all the flight at about 2,7 and only when on ground in Manchester rwy23R it increased at 3,1 and stay on that value until all the taxi to the gate, so I can complete the flight.

Next step is trying the same flights with all UTX Europe disabled and ORBX EU active

But since now I think you can believe ORBX EU and UTX Europe active together cause a too high vas and OOM error

Probably the problem is in some UTX layer, perhaps not the roads as you can see in my test.

What UTX layer you think can create the problem?? The night lights?? I have also to make a test disabling GEX Europe!! Pehaps the problem could be not ORBX with UTX but ORBX with GEX

[Dave_YVR]

Who's to say it's the ORBX scenery causing the OOM's? Why not the PMDG NGX? UTX?

They are caused by an altogether combination of the addons you are trying to run at the settings you choose to run FSX at.

FSX being the 32bit application that it is has the glass ceiling we've all herd about lately with the 4gb limit to it's VAS. With all of these amazing complex addons that we run to enhance our FSX experience we simply hit the ceiling and the OOM happens.

Reduce your settings in FSX (LOD plays a massive role here) to continue running all of your addons or disable some of your addons while we wait with fingers crossed for a 64bit version of P3d.

Running in DX10 Preview mode also is a good way to minimize OOMS as DX10 doesn't have to shadow the video RAM into VAS like DX9 does.

[maddoc]

Who's to say it's the ORBX scenery causing the OOM's? Why not the PMDG NGX? UTX?

They are caused by an altogether combination of the addons you are trying to run at the settings you choose to run FSX at.

FSX being the 32bit application that it is has the glass ceiling we've all herd about lately with the 4gb limit to it's VAS. With all of these amazing complex addons that we run to enhance our FSX experience we simply hit the ceiling and the OOM happens.

Reduce your settings in FSX (LOD plays a massive role here) to continue running all of your addons or disable some of your addons while we wait with fingers crossed for a 64bit version of P3d.

Running in DX10 Preview mode also is a good way to minimize OOMS as DX10 doesn't have to shadow the video RAM into VAS like DX9 does.

Yes sir, off course i know those tweaks, infact i use lod_radius at 4.5 and texture max load at 1024, for an example. I don't say ORBX causes these OOM, i say ORBX and UTX and NGX cause these OOM , and unitl we find a solutions we have to choose which of those addon use and which not. I hope to find a system to use all together, but i believe, as you say, we have to wait P3D 2.0 64 bit. Thank you

[rockliffe]

My fear is if and when I puchase FTX Global, that poor frames and OOM erros become the order of the day when combined with addons such as Aerosoft and FSDT airports...

[John Venema]

If my MacBook Pro laptop can run FTX Global in Paris all sliders maxed smooth as silk at 30FPS without any OOMs or other issues then the rest of the world will be a walk in the park.

[alehead]

Howard, as I understand it, FTX global is going to be replacement textures, though I am sure I will be corrected on this. My guess is the effect on FPS will be minimal, if at all noticable...

John, with all due respect, I don't believe it is that simple... please allow me to reason why:

Running the NGX in Paris with all sliders maxed out into say Aerosoft Mega Airport Paris Charles de Gaulle, with OPUS FSX and a weather front over the Paris region, with UTX Europe is very likely going to hit the VAS limit... but one cannot blame any single addon. It is the user combining the impossible and experiencing the obvious... In my mind, it is the user at fault. Though, some developers don't make it easy for us users, creating addons with 4096^2 texture sheets, cloud textures and so on.

Running FSX at 1024^2 textures for clouds/aircraft textures and so on, and fitting autogen and complexity according to your CPU's capability, and you will find the sweet spot.

As mentioned, the greatest killer for VAS use is LOD level. FSX uses 4.5 as maximum, higher values are of course possible via manual editing of the fsx.cfg... 7.5 and more will hit the VAS limit within minutes if you're using any complex addons.

It is all about learning how each element contributes to VAS use and acting accordingly.

A

[maddoc]

John please believe me, with all due respect , this situation is not so simple , and this is not a FPS problem. Using only your scenery or your scenery in combination with UTX and NGX if the settings in FSX, W7, and graphic card are good the FPS are always high. In my opinion your scenery never cause important problem with FPS, for example I have always FPS at 30 stable.

The VAS problem is quite different. I and my Italian friends of www.volovirtuale.com perform a lot of test, using only your scenery with NGX and then using also UTX , the OOM occurs only when using these three products all together , while doesen't occur when using only NGX and ORBX or NGX and UTX. but in every test using NGX and ORBX the VAS is always higher when flying the same flight but using only NGX and UTX. this observation is true both in Europe, USA and Alaska . No OOM occur in Australia because no UTX for that region

I perform a lot of test flight reporting always the VAS , my study confirm all that I wore above

I think the VAS problem in ORBX scenery is not into the complexity of ORBX scenery but into the .dll files that ORBX force FSX to load; these ORBX dll files loaded with many other .dll files used in FSX by pmdg or other scenery increase too much the VAS until reaching the VAS

Probably the only solution will be having a 64 bit simulator like P3D 2.0

Thanks for your attention

[John Venema]

Well the test will be when FTX Global is released and you get reports from NGX flyers. I think you will be pleasantly surprised

[maddoc]

Well the test will be when FTX Global is released and you get reports from NGX flyers. I think you will be pleasantly surprised

I hope so and believe in you. John the problem is that ORBX are the best scenery created for flight simulator since now. Once you see for the first an ORBX scenery you can't live and fly without it anymore. Therefore is very important for customers being able to use ORBX scenery, with UTX and an airplane like as NGX, each one of this addon is an important piece of the simmer's life!!

I'm sure the FTX Global will be light and good in performance, I have no doubt about that, and fortunately when you'll release the global we can finally remove GEX from our flight simulator.

But also after the global release we'll yet have the problem between ORBX regional scenery, UTX and airplane like as NGX

I hope to be useful for you to looking for a solution to reduce the VAS use in simulator when using these important addon

Have a nice Easter

[lodestar77]

There is a excellent Microsoft(unbelievable, but true)fix for OOM in FSX and P3D. Somebody on Avsim discovered that, i found a great explanation on Kosta's new blog, here is the link: http://kostasfsworld...mory-helperfix/ . It will increase heap limit on windows 7 64bit and nothing bad can happen. I have this fix aplied for at least 7-8 months and i didn't saw OOM since then. And yes, i use NGX, ORBX, REX, UTX, GEX, Aerosoft airports etc... I applied this on 2 more PC's with same positive results.

Direct link to Microsoft fix: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/947246

[lodestar77]

P.S. It's a good idea to allways disable all scenery(especially payware addons)which will not be used for current flight. If you fly in USA, disable Europe, Australia, Africa etc... and you need only 2 or 3 airports and maximum 2 continents for each flight, depparture and destination(maybe alternative destination too). If not disabled, all instaled sceneries, default fsx areas and airports will be loaded for each flight and will use some of the fsx/pc/VAS resurces - that lead's to OOM too. Keep in mind that Full Flight Simulator needs 5-10 minutes to load 1 Airport, and they are not fsx payware quality! It look's more like fs9 So, fsx is not doing bad at all...

[maddoc]

There is a excellent Microsoft(unbelievable, but true)fix for OOM in FSX and P3D. Somebody on Avsim discovered that, i found a great explanation on Kosta's new blog, here is the link: http://kostasfsworld...mory-helperfix/ . It will increase heap limit on windows 7 64bit and nothing bad can happen. I have this fix aplied for at least 7-8 months and i didn't saw OOM since then. And yes, i use NGX, ORBX, REX, UTX, GEX, Aerosoft airports etc... I applied this on 2 more PC's with same positive results.

Direct link to Microsoft fix: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/947246

Hi,

thank you very much, but I know that fix and I use it since a lot of time but without any positive results you say to have. Also with this fix some times I have OOM when using NGX ORBX UTX and GEX in FSX, more often these OOM happen in P3D

I'm agree with your suggest to disable the scenery not in use for the current fly, but by observations about VAS and FSX the scenery complexity, the scenery detail and the lod radius are less important than all the .dll process that are active in the simulator by all addon we use.

Try a flight disabling before start FSX some unesuful .dll process working in FSX, you'll find your VAS during that flight very very lower than normal