mburkhard Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Hi all, I've noticed that on my installation of YBBN all gates, stands and parking spots are defined as "RAMP GA". There are no gates, no cargo parking and so on. Is there something wrong with my installation of the AFCAD file? Or was that done intentionally? Cheers, Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Eccleston Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 If you classify a parking spot as a 'Gate' or 'Cargo', FSX places it's default push back tug and baggage train at that position. We prefer to place our own custom made ground services vehicles at these gates so have to change the parking classification to 'Ramp' to prevent the default vehicles appearing. The title of the parking spot remains as a 'Gate' so ATC will still refer to it as "Gate number xx". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburkhard Posted July 11, 2010 Author Share Posted July 11, 2010 Graham, thanks for that. If this does not create any issues with my AI traffic then I guess I'll leave it as it is. Though I've seen a gate position being occupied by three aircraft at once. Haven't seen this on any other airport so far. An FSX bug with ramp positions, or just a coincidence? Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Henare Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 If you reload or refresh FSX can load a second AFCAD etc which means it sees the second afcad parking spot as empty and parks a second plane there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Strasser Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Hi gents First: It's not necessary to assign all gates as GA-Stands to prevent from seeing default pushback trucks. Simply set the Airport vehicle density to "none" in the Traffic-settings and you'll never see that trucks. Second: The AI-Aircrafts are all assigned to the same gate due to the missing Hold-short-Nodes at all runway exits in the AFCAD file. ATC cannot handle aircrafts which vacates the runway whithout passing a holdshort node. This result with multiple aircraft-parking at the same gate. Hope that helps... best regards Mike sim-wings Nodepusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburkhard Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Thanks for this Mike. I have all my FSX default vehicles turned off anyway, as most quality scenery developers tend to place their own anyway. So for me it wouldn't hurt at all to have gates defined in the AFCAD. But anyway, it is not that hard to change this myself. But I hope ORBX will update their AFCAD soon including those runway exit hold-short nodes. For me the multiple occupied stands issue is apparent only at YBBN. So this really can't be just an FSX bug. So I'll be looking forward to having an updated AFCAD file soon! Cheers, Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt sl Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 which gate is multiple occupied and at which time . i never noticed this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Eccleston Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I have all my FSX default vehicles turned off anyway, as most quality scenery developers tend to place their own anyway. So for me it wouldn't hurt at all to have gates defined in the AFCAD. But anyway, it is not that hard to change this myself. While I understand it is easy to turn the default ground vehicle activity to zero, many choose not to do so as that would also stop the fuel vehicles. It is better for us to control this situation by classifying the 'Gates' as 'Ramps' That way the user does not have to change settings when visiting YBBN and other ground vehicles will still be active. But I hope ORBX will update their AFCAD soon including those runway exit hold-short nodes. For me the multiple occupied stands issue is apparent only at YBBN. So this really can't be just an FSX bug. So I'll be looking forward to having an updated AFCAD file soon! I removed all the 'hold shorts' from the exit taxiways to better reflect what happens at real airports, ie. most aircraft just exit and proceed directly to their parking spot having already received their gate number while en route. It also improves the overall flow of AI traffic, particularly at busy airports like YBBN. I conducted countless hours of testing for this change with all AI set at 100% and did not encounter a problem. I've also conducted additional testing since this issue was reported and cannot replicate the multiple parking situation in any way. I have had this problem on occasion at YSSY with the default AFCAD, but as I have not visited that airport for some time now, I’m unaware if it is still an issue. The 'hold short' nodes are still in place as 'normal' nodes, they just need to be reset however I am reluctant to do that at this time as it would mean a return to the silly practice of aircraft stopping to ask for permission to go to the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normandean Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Two issues raised here. Firstly you can stop the default pushback tractors appearing by labelling the gates as "Unknown" and secondly, Mike is absolutely correct, you will get double parking if the aircraft has not passed over an HS node. The fact that you haven't seen it may be just luck, or because the traffic doesn't saturate the gates, but it is a fact. As far as realism is concerned, it is normal practice in real life to hold after leaving the runway, to clean up the aircraft. It is only at High Speed exits that aircraft do not stop. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Strasser Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 This issue with the multiple parking is not a new problem in FSX. It was already known in FS9. It is not really a bug but the way how FS-ATC handles AI-Aircrafts. The hold-short nodes are mandatory for a trouble-free traffic-flow. They are not for decoration... Below a screenshot where you can see an AI-Aircraft taxiing into 5 (!) other AI-Aircrafts: best regards Mike sim-wings Nodepusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Johnston Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Two issues raised here. As far as realism is concerned, it is normal practice in real life to hold after leaving the runway, to clean up the aircraft. It is only at High Speed exits that aircraft do not stop. Not in australia it's not. They don't stop so that they don't clog up the runway exits. Why would you clean up your aircraft after just exiting the runway? The only stopping I have ever seen was to hold short of a parallel runway to giveaway to the landing traffic. Have a look on utube. There are plenty of videos on planes exiting the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt sl Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 just on another note Taxiway A7 is labeled as B7 the signs are correct just the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Strasser Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Two issues raised here. As far as realism is concerned, it is normal practice in real life to hold after leaving the runway, to clean up the aircraft. It is only at High Speed exits that aircraft do not stop. Not in australia it's not. They don't stop so that they don't clog up the runway exits. Why would you clean up your aircraft after just exiting the runway? The only stopping I have ever seen was to hold short of a parallel runway to giveaway to the landing traffic. Have a look on utube. There are plenty of videos on planes exiting the runway. Here in Flight Simulator sometimes it's not a question of "how it is in real life". It's simply a limitation of Flight Simulator we have to accept. Otherwise we have some issues like this multiple parkings. Unfortunately we cannot simulate every real things in FS. As I said, for a well working order of events it is mandatory to set this hold-short-nodes in the AF-file, regardless if a short stop of the AI-Aircrafts is real or not. We have to live with that. And we CAN live with that. But not with multiple parkings... best regards Mike sim-wings Nodepusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt sl Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 not sure about others but ai traffic for me are stopping briefly after exiting then ask for atc instructions to gate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normandean Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Correct ATC procedure is to stop and get taxi directions, but it is true that in order to speed traffic the second officer does the routine clean up and gets taxi clearance whilst the pilot continues, albeit slowly, past the hold. However, for single handed pilots a stop is always necessary. However, as Mike has said, in the sim you have to go with the coding and try to get as near to real life as you can. One thing that may not be realised, however, is that the node for arriving aircraft does not have to be placed in close proximity to the runway. It can be placed in any location such that the aircraft will cross it as long as it is prior to the routes to the gate. Thus you can have aircraft leaving the runway and not stopping until later in the taxi. In some cases it is possible to influence the route to parking and the gates used by the location of the HS. Norman Node pusher for UK2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburkhard Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Whether or not you stop your airliner after vacating the runway is simply a question of the ATC clearance limit. If all goes well I receive the taxi clearance while still being on the runway about to vacate, and I'll be able to taxi without a stop. Saves fuel, cool! However, if the frequency is busy and I can't get the taxi instructions after being off the runway, I HAVE to stop there and ask for a clearance. So in reality on busy airports you'll see both. Now if FSX requires that all aircraft stop very briefly I'm all for it, as it is not completely unrealistic. It just wouldn't happen with every single aircraft on a real airport. I don't like the idea of being sent to a gate which is already occupied... Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Eccleston Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I'll return all the hold short nodes to the exit taxiways and the updated APX will be included in the next update to YBBN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburkhard Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Splendid, thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Strasser Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 That's great! Thanks a lot! best regards Mike sim-wings Nodepusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normandean Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Thanks, Graham, much appreciated. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.