Now I have a NEW set of problems...

[ggerman]

Hello again all,

Well... since solving my performance problems with my new FSX rig, I have now developed a new, potentially serious problem! :'(

My rig has been running exceptionally stable until last night, when, without warning, my screen locked up in FSX. I was in the middle of a flight when the sim picture just froze. The sound, however continued.. and if I hit "S" to switch the view, I got the corresponding sound perspective, but the picture remained frozen. I tried to switch to the Task Manager, however that wasn't happening, so I had to do a hard reboot.

Just out of curiosity, when my system restarted, I decided to check my core temps... just on the outside chance that perhaps I had reached some sort of system shutdown due to instability.

I checked the temps with the "Core Temp" utility, and it indicated that the temps were running in the mid 50's at idle. (previously, during my overclocking process several weeks ago, the idle temps were at 40c and in the upper 60s under the load of FSX.)

On a whim, I also checked the temps with both EasyTune 6 and within the BIOS itself. EasyTune showed the core temps in the mid- to upper-50s at idle and in the mid-upper 60s under load. The BIOS temp monitor indicated roughly the same temps as EasyTune.

Sensing that perhaps my overclock WASN'T stable, I tried backing down on the overclock - first to 3.6, then even further down to 3.2, however the system wouldn't boot to Windows with anything other than either 2.8Mhz and a BCLK of 140 or 3.8Mhz and a BLCK of 190. I also tried adjusting my voltages, however that didn't seem to help either. So now, at the moment, my overclock settings are back where they were before the problem:

Below are shots of both CoreTemp and EasyTune, showing the differing temps.

II'm not sure where to go from here... obviously, if I back down to the stock clock, my performance will suffer.. but I also don't want to fry my processor either. Since I can't seem to find a stable "mid-range" overclock, I thought I'd plead my case before the experts here and see if there may be something for me to check or adjust in hopes of alleviating this problem.

One thing I DO know that shouldn't be causing it.. ambient temps! The rom temp is approx. 72F, but to further discount that, I have the computer very close (about 6") to one of the vents from the central A/C , so I don't think it's the ambient temp that's causing this. To even further eliminate this as a culprit, I have a small cooling fan outside the case blowing very cool air into the case - just to see if this has any bearing! So far, it hasn't helped at all... temps are still in the mid-to upper 50s:-(

Any help would be graciously and gratefully accepted!

Thanks a bunch in advance!

[Phil Manhart]

Ouch, worry not!

This may not be a serious problem like you think (CPU, RAM, or Mobo failure...)

Do a factory reset of your BIOS by using the Load Default Settings option on the front page of the BIOS first thing!

Then try and recreate your overclock at 3.2 as a starting point and go from there.

I had a similar story after getting my new hardware but it turned out that I had accidentally changed a voltage setting to AUTO in my BIOS and the motherboard (which seemed to know what it was doing at first) began to lower the voltage over time for no reason whatsoever (unless some BIOS programmer has a sick sense of humor).

Give your system a good blowout as well and verify that ALL of the fans are running, maybe a fan power plug has come loose or something stupid like that.

Phil

[ggerman]

Hi Phil,

Unfortunately, I've tried ALL of your suggestions already... but no change.

When I backed off of the original overclock, first thing I did was go back to the defaults, then started from there. That's how I discovered that the only stable setups were either the default 2.8 or the 3.8 OC.

The only suspect that I have (but haven't as yet confirmed) is that perhaps there was a bubble or something in the layer of thermal past I laid down on my CPU cooler during assembly. I know that it's NOT the actual cooler being improperly seated, though. I naturally checked that first, and it's perfectly seated. I don't think that even a 9.0 earthquake could unseat that bad boy!)

[Phil Manhart]

This sucks!

There must be something wrong somewhere... I remember your original problem was something silly, I hope that it's something silly again.

I hate to state the obvious, but unless you have a failing CPU, there isn't really a reason for what is happening...

You could try a system restore to a time when you knew it was running great to make sure it wasn't an automatic update that is screwing you.

Phil

[drumsonly2002]

My 2 cents and I most likely off target. Would a faulty power supply cause this? "I know nuthing .. I seez nutting " Quote from Sgt. Shultz from Hogan's Hero's

[cbird]

Had the same problem a wile back when building a mates flightsim pc. It had all the latest hardware. What i was getting was the black screen but the sound would stay true to the corresponding view or action. The fix was a new power supply as the thermaltake one I had was fualty. It was a brand new 1500watt PSU but one of the wires had been stripped and cut.

Replaced the psu with a 700watt that we had lying around since then problem fixed.

Might be a fix

Good luck

[Arismac]

G'day Greg,

This may well be the problem I have seen on a few occasions, certainly the symptoms are similar.

Just before you are forced to close the FSX program do you get a small window which offers details of the problem? This is standard in Windows 7. If so click on the details and although much of what is there is not understandable by people like me, you may find a reference to another program such as "RealEnvironmentExtreme".

Upgrading my REX2 from their web site seems to have been the fix for me. Another culprit is the FSE Client if you use it, but it could be a number of programs connected via FSUIPC that is causing the problem.

[Arismac]

PS: Just in case you missed this Greg, it may also be a cause of your problems.

http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=17264.0

[Maurice_King]

I'd be more inclined to believe the Easy Tune before CPU-Z with respect to temperatures but that aside are you terminating Easy Tune AFTER you have done all you need too ?  It does NOT need to run all the time and WILL increase your memory use and memory temp's if left running. This could be a source of your lockup's. Easy Tune is an OC tool and is not need at all once the MoBo is clocked to where you want.

[ggerman]

PS: Just in case you missed this Greg, it may also be a cause of your problems.

http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=17264.0

Hi Mac,

Unfortunately, this is definitely a hardware issue...  my REX is up to date and I had already applied the menu bar fix right after my FSX install.

I appreciate your suggestions, though! )

Thanks a bunch!

[ggerman]

I'd be more inclined to believe the Easy Tune before CPU-Z with respect to temperatures but that aside are you terminating Easy Tune AFTER you have done all you need too ?  It does NOT need to run all the time and WILL increase your memory use and memory temp's if left running. This could be a source of your lockup's. Easy Tune is an OC tool and is not need at all once the MoBo is clocked to where you want.

Hi Maurice,

EasyTune definitely doesn't run in the background when I'm simming... in fact, I only opened EasyTune simply to check the temps. All of my overclocking was/is done directly in the BIOS and not through EasyTune, but I initially used EasyTune to monitor the temps when I first OC'd the system after I built it. Since that time, though, I hadn't any need for it as the system was running very stable. I ran Core Temp because it gives readings for all four cores, rather than a single cumulative temp, like EasyTune.

I did try running Prime95 last night just to see what kind of results I'd get... and the system crashed after only 5 minutes. When I first OC'd the system, I ran Prime 95 for 18 hours straight... and not a single crash! I monitored the temps and they were right at 90c before the crash last night.  \

[Valcor]

What are your temps at stock voltages and clocks?

If it wasn't for your high temps, I'd say your V-core is a little low for a 3.8 Ghz OC, but with temps that high at idle, maybe it's two separate issues.

[ggerman]

What are your temps at stock voltages and clocks?

If it wasn't for your high temps, I'd say your V-core is a little low for a 3.8 Ghz OC, but with temps that high at idle, maybe it's two separate issues.

At stock clock and voltage, my temps are in the upper 30's at idle and in the upper 50's at load.

I lowered the Vcore a bit yesterday.... it was originally running at 1.35 when the problems started occuring, but I lowered it a bit yesterday in an effort to lower the temps.

Knowing that i7 processors are very sensitive to voltage, I figured its better to lower the voltage a bit until I can diagnose the problem.

[Valcor]

What are your temps at stock voltages and clocks?

If it wasn't for your high temps, I'd say your V-core is a little low for a 3.8 Ghz OC, but with temps that high at idle, maybe it's two separate issues.

At stock clock and voltage, my temps are in the upper 30's at idle and in the upper 50's at load.

I lowered the Vcore a bit yesterday.... it was originally running at 1.35 when the problems started occuring, but I lowered it a bit yesterday in an effort to lower the temps.

Knowing that i7 processors are very sensitive to voltage, I figured its better to lower the voltage a bit until I can diagnose the problem.

Your idle temps are fine at stock speeds, so I think your heatsink fitting is fine.

I've read of some people having issues with 920s/930s at 1.35 Vcore.  Some people are recommending to bump it up to 1.375 because that's the top of it's VID Voltage Range, but that makes no sense to me.  Just running hotter than you have to for most OC's.

I know CPU's can be alike as snowflakes, but I'm stable at 3.8Ghz with 1.28 vcore if you want to give that a shot.  (that's on a 930)

[Bakern]

On my 920 D0 i'm stable at 1.2850.......

Stein-Ove

[alainneedle1]

You may "wanna" look here  http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=bd9a41b13a369984d4d454f7c8fdc617&board=5.0  and post your problem and see what others like you did to fix their problems.

I surfed the Evga's forum a lot when I had some stability issue (my old rams were the problem) and by talking to others on the forums I was able to fix it.

Overclocking is another world by itself, everything has to work perfectly, just raising or lowering the voltage on the cpu does not mean stability, I've spend severals nights tweaking my rig, let say you find a good and stable overclock at 3.6GHz but you "wanna" try at 3.80GHz ......you will have to start from scratch again.....by that I mean, the voltage will probably have to change on the CPU, also the rams  cause you will have to overclock them or you may have to underclock them depending of the CPU speed, link or unlink, syncronized or not....so changing the CPU frequency = changing voltage allover the board.....

I can't tell you how many night I've spend running OCCT and having a stability problem after 55 minutes of testing until I finaly found the sweet spot for 4.05GHz 4.275GHz and 4.320GHz.....every time I was going for higher CPU frequency I had to change everything as far as voltage on CPU, rams, southbridge, northbridge +++ 

[Valcor]

You in an R22 in your profile picture there Alain?

Anyhow, yes, vcore is just one piece of the puzzle but I have found these i7 chips to be MUCH less finicky to OC than the Core 2 ones were.  vcore, PLL, QPI, RAM at whatever manufacturer suggests and many people have stable results.  You start pushing for over 4Ghz and things get more finicky, but sub 4.0, they seem to be quite friendly.

[alainneedle1]

You in an R22 in your profile picture there Alain?

Anyhow, yes, vcore is just one piece of the puzzle but I have found these i7 chips to be MUCH less finicky to OC than the Core 2 ones were.  vcore, PLL, QPI, RAM at whatever manufacturer suggests and many people have stable results.  You start pushing for over 4Ghz and things get more finicky, but sub 4.0, they seem to be quite friendly.

Here is what I was in for the profile pic... you'r good.

[ggerman]

:: UPDATE ::

I shut the system down yesterday morning before I headed to the office, just to give it a breather and to be able to start approaching the problem from a different angle. When I got home yesterday evening, I reset the CMOS to defaults, booted up, let it run for about an hour, then checked the temps. On stock clock and voltage, the temps were hovering in the mid-40s at idle, which DEFINITELY isn't right, so... I took the box apart, pulled the CPU cooler, cleaned the paste from both the CPU and the cooler base, re-applied a thin, very smooth and even layer of Arctic Silver 5 and re-assembled the whole box again.

(BTW - I'm getting really good at the assembly/disassembly process with each successive machine I build! I managed to take the entire system apart, clean the CPU & cooler, reapply the thermal compound, and reassemble the box in just a shade under 45minutes! LOL!)

So...after boot-up, the stock clock and voltages gave a much more normal temp reading of mid-30s (with processors 0 & 2 running about 4c warmer than 1 & 3.) so after about an hour, I loaded my 3.8ghz OC settings, rebooted, checked temps, and was running in the mid-40s at idle and the mid-60s to just about 70c with FSX running.... a little better, but still, obviously not where it should be.

I think tonight, I'm going to revisit the voltages and see if theres something there that can lower those temps - I'm going to start with a BLCK of 190and Vcore at around 1.22 and go up from there until I can get a stable 3.8 OC.

I'm also considering going from my current BIOS of F7c to F10 (which seems to be the most stable version with the GA-EX58 - UD5)

Now.. some questions for the gurus here:

- I see lots of people using the same mobo/cpu setup with their clock multiplier at 21x (and some even at 19x), however mine is set at 20x... can/should I change that?

- Should I try to manually set VTT, QPI and/or Uncore as well? Currently, I am using "Auto" settings, as was suggested in more than a few OC'ing threads I studied prior to my own efforts.

- My DDR3 RAM is rated at 1.65V, however, curiously, the EX58-UD5 doesn't have a 1.65V setting for the DRAM - it skips from the 1.64V to a 1.66V setting (which is highlighted in pink in the BIOS, indicating that I'm in the cautionary range.) Should I just leave that at the 1.64V setting?

Are there any other settings I should work with in the OC process to try and lower/stabilize the temps?

I'm open to suggestions!

Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice! It has been most appreciated!!

More to come...

[alainneedle1]

:: UPDATE ::

I shut the system down yesterday morning before I headed to the office, just to give it a breather and to be able to start approaching the problem from a different angle. When I got home yesterday evening, I reset the CMOS to defaults, booted up, let it run for about an hour, then checked the temps. On stock clock and voltage, the temps were hovering in the mid-40s at idle, which DEFINITELY isn't right, so... I took the box apart, pulled the CPU cooler, cleaned the paste from both the CPU and the cooler base, re-applied a thin, very smooth and even layer of Arctic Silver 5 and re-assembled the whole box again.

(BTW - I'm getting really good at the assembly/disassembly process with each successive machine I build! I managed to take the entire system apart, clean the CPU & cooler, reapply the thermal compound, and reassemble the box in just a shade under 45minutes! LOL!)

So...after boot-up, the stock clock and voltages gave a much more normal temp reading of mid-30s (with processors 0 & 2 running about 4c warmer than 1 & 3.) so after about an hour, I loaded my 3.8ghz OC settings, rebooted, checked temps, and was running in the mid-40s at idle and the mid-60s to just about 70c with FSX running.... a little better, but still, obviously not where it should be.

I think tonight, I'm going to revisit the voltages and see if theres something there that can lower those temps - I'm going to start with a BLCK of 190and Vcore at around 1.22 and go up from there until I can get a stable 3.8 OC.

I'm also considering going from my current BIOS of F7c to F10 (which seems to be the most stable version with the GA-EX58 - UD5)

Now.. some questions for the gurus here:

- I see lots of people using the same mobo/cpu setup with their clock multiplier at 21x (and some even at 19x), however mine is set at 20x... can/should I change that?

- Should I try to manually set VTT, QPI and/or Uncore as well? Currently, I am using "Auto" settings, as was suggested in more than a few OC'ing threads I studied prior to my own efforts.

- My DDR3 RAM is rated at 1.65V, however, curiously, the EX58-UD5 doesn't have a 1.65V setting for the DRAM - it skips from the 1.64V to a 1.66V setting (which is highlighted in pink in the BIOS, indicating that I'm in the cautionary range.) Should I just leave that at the 1.64V setting?

Are there any other settings I should work with in the OC process to try and lower/stabilize the temps?

I'm open to suggestions!

Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice! It has been most appreciated!!

More to come...

Can't you set the voltage manualy at 1.65v? I don't have your mobo but it's is weird you can't set yhe voltage at 1.65v , it may well be a bios bug, I will suggest to try another bios to see if you can have the 1.65v in it........your pC not been stable may in fact be because of your ram voltage, you should not raise the ram voltage over the manuf. spec. unless you are overclocking them........keep us up to date.

[Valcor]

Two quick answers: 

Yes, I would recommend manually adjusting your QPI voltage a bit.  Your RAM might not interface correctly with a higher CPU clock with that voltage not bumped up a bit to compensate for faster processor.  That could be a factor in RAM type error crashes.  I suggest about 1.3, that's a very safe but effective setting.  Other voltages you mentioned at Auto should be fine for now, unless you start trying for 4.0+  OR continue having stability issues.

As for RAM voltage, yes keep at 1.64.  Some sources seem to say anything over 1.65 could hurt an i7 chip, and even though some folks say that has no basis in fact, why risk it.

Edit:  Some mobos in fact can not key in 1.65 for some reason.  However, yes Alain is right, don't go to 1.65 unless the sticks call for it.  Mine for instance call for only 1.5.

[Ross Casey]

Hi Greg,

In answer to your first question re the odd number for the clock multiplier setting. I recall in one of the overclocking forums (Aus one I think) the comment being made by several of the guys that these units seem to clock better when set to odd & not even numbers.

Could be worth trying.

[ggerman]

Hi Greg,

In answer to your first question re the odd number for the clock multiplier setting. I recall in one of the overclocking forums (Aus one I think) the comment being made by several of the guys that these units seem to clock better when set to odd & not even numbers.

Could be worth trying.

Hi Ross,

Well after checking the BIOS, it turns out I can't set it to 21

20 is the max it will take! And it won't boot to Windows if I set it to 19! UGH! This is so frustrating! LOL!

I did update my BIOS this evening, though... still can't get the temps down, however.

I have tried nearly every reasonable voltage setting and nothing seems to work. I guess I just unluckily wound up with a dud processor! (or maybe a bad mobo?)

I think I'm going to go pick up a new processor this weekend and do a little comparison testing... all the same settings, but with a new processor. If the new one has better temps, then I guess that'll indicate a bad chip... if not, then it is either a bad motherboard, or I'm just a complete wanker when it comes to overclocking! LOL!

I want you all to know how much I truly appreciate your input! You've all been so gracious and generous with your suggestions and I value that greatly!

Thanks a million guys!

[Spirit Flyer_old]

Greg,

I've been thinking about everything you wrote. I think it has got to be a bad 920 chip. I suppose it could be the MB, but I bet not. Here is a suggestion. Get the 930. Set it to 200x21 at 1.375v and you will have super stable and safe performance at 4.3ghz. I looked for your heatsink but can't see where you indicated what you use. These things need the best heatsinks on the market with double fans running wide open. Nothing else will do when under loads.

Stephen

[ggerman]

I looked for your heatsink but can't see where you indicated what you use. These things need the best heatsinks on the market with double fans running wide open. Nothing else will do when under loads.

The CPU cooler definitely isn't a slouch. Its a Cooler Master V8 RR-UV8-XBU1-GP 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - one of the better i7 air coolers out there...

I'll update everyone after I put in a new CPU.

Thanks

Greg

[Spirit Flyer_old]

I looked for your heatsink but can't see where you indicated what you use. These things need the best heatsinks on the market with double fans running wide open. Nothing else will do when under loads.

The CPU cooler definitely isn't a slouch. Its a Cooler Master V8 RR-UV8-XBU1-GP 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - one of the better i7 air coolers out there...

I'll update everyone after I put in a new CPU.

Thanks

Greg

Yes it is. I did not mean to degrade it, I just did not see what you had. Hope it all goes well.

Stephen

[ggerman]

No worries, Stephen!

I had my machine specs in the first thread I started when I was trying to solve my FSX performance issues... I didn't re-list them in this thread, since the other thread was still kinda fresh! 

Thanks again!

Greg

[shape of grey]

Greg,

take a read on this link (leads to a PDF) written by the lads at Gigabyte specifically for their X58 boards and the i7 920, covers pretty much all the little ins and out of OCIng using that board and CPU combo. The example is on a UD7-Extreme, but the process and the BIOS layaout are virtually identical to UD5.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/10827/gigabyte_shows_how_to_overclock_i7_920_cpu_to_4ghz/index.html

[ggerman]

Greg,

take a read on this link (leads to a PDF) written by the lads at Gigabyte specifically for their X58 boards and the i7 920, covers pretty much all the little ins and out of OCIng using that board and CPU combo. The example is on a UD7-Extreme, but the process and the BIOS layaout are virtually identical to UD5.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/10827/gigabyte_shows_how_to_overclock_i7_920_cpu_to_4ghz/index.html

That is actually one of the many research items I read prior to my OC'ing efforts. It's a pretty comprehensive guide (though not without a few "why did they do THAT?" questions in my view...)

Interesting read, though.. especially for Gigabyte owners!

Thanks!

[alainneedle1]

ggerman, anything new, are you able to overclock as far as you would like?

[ggerman]

I've actually been travelling on business the past week and a half, so I haven't had time to fool with the system much.

Currently, it's running very stable at 3.8ghz, but the temps are still a little high at idle - between 48-55c. But curiously, the temps don't get much higher under load! Running FSX, I'm now seeing the temps max between 71-76c... no stability issues, so I'm just gonna leave it as is for now!

Bottom line - If the CPU fries, I've got two more brand-new, boxed i7 920's set aside - they're pretty cheap now, so I picked up a couple extras - just in case!!

Thanks again to all who offered advice and assistance!!

Gest,

Greg

[Valcor]

I've actually been travelling on business the past week and a half, so I haven't had time to fool with the system much.

Currently, it's running very stable at 3.8ghz, but the temps are still a little high at idle - between 48-55c. But curiously, the temps don't get much higher under load! Running FSX, I'm now seeing the temps max between 71-76c... no stability issues, so I'm just gonna leave it as is for now!

Bottom line - If the CPU fries, I've got two more brand-new, boxed i7 920's set aside - they're pretty cheap now, so I picked up a couple extras - just in case!!

Thanks again to all who offered advice and assistance!!

Gest,

Greg

Depending on your ambient temps, 48c is not bad if that's inside a closed case.  When it gets warm inside my pc room my cpu temps idle a good 7 degree C higher.  Case closed adds another 3c.

[shape of grey]

Yeah, heat is picking up here on the East Coast, mine idles around 45-48C. These puppies are rated upwards of 100C so, you're pretty well in the clear with ~70C.

[macca22au]

Right at the moment I am running my i7 940 at its native 2.93 ghz speed.  This is after a comprehensive reloading of the OS and FSX, and a whole rash of add-ons - like just about all Orbx, all UTX, GEX, and much else.

I am having no problems at all.  FSX is running smoothly.  I did a flight from Concrete, turned up a valley near the coast, flew through superb hill country scenery, across eastern Vancouver to Hope.  Magic and smooth.

I am going to overclock, buy on air, which will mean I will get 3.6 at the most.  But I can expect really good performance.

My point, don't turn O'Cing into a testosterone thing, and don't put your expensive CPU chips at risk from overheating and burning out (and no warranty).  Remember it is smooth that we want after all, not brawn for its own sake.

[ggerman]

My point, don't turn O'Cing into a testosterone thing, and don't put your expensive CPU chips at risk from overheating and burning out (and no warranty).  Remember it is smooth that we want after all, not brawn for its own sake.

Sorry, but I fail to see what that has to do with my particular situation? My system runs as smooth as butter! This has nothing to do with "slamming my weenie on the overclocking bench".

I'm merely trying to troubleshoot a CPU temperature problem. Even at a stock speed, the chip is warmer than normal.  I'm not even close to "testosterone overload" with my OC.... I'm at a very modest 3.8Ghz... 

(BTW - at only $99 USD, I'd hardly call the i7 920 expensive! LOL!)

[NaveenB]

Hey Greg

Just curious where are you getting I7 920s at 99 bucks a pop?

[ggerman]

Local computer chain had a sale on them a couple weeks ago... just after they'd gotten in the new stock of the new generation i7's... They had a limit of 5 per customer, so I bought 5 - two for me and 3 for my office. )

[Wolter van der Spoel]

Hi Greg,

not sure about this but I've heard somewhere that when getting a i7 920 one had to look for a particular version, can't remember the exact details so maybe someone with more knowledge on that can jump in

[ggerman]

You're referring to the revision number.. the current is "D0" (which is what I have)... it's a more mature version of the processor. 

[Wolter van der Spoel]

yup that was it, well it was just a tought, all little bits could help