Boy controller at JFK

[Ryan Mason]

Unfortunately with FAA regs, this controller who let his kid take the mic for a few calls is suspended, but it sure is cute!

[Dylan Lampard]

That would have been fun,

it seems like he knew what he was doing, and the pilots could understand him perfectly But regulations are regulations

[johnny]

was just reading this on A.net, I find this extraordinary, shocking after hearing the recording

[Orion Pilot]

I just saw this one on sunrise ----- He seem to be doing a great job- 

[Hugh Johnston]

Now that is cool. He did well.

[Iain Emms]

Yes watched this earlier on the news here in blighty and none of the pilots seemed too bothered about such a young voice giving them clearence just makes you wonder how many times tis has happend before.

cheers

Iain

[Lost in Isaan]

Although he sounded quite clear and concise from what I heard, IMHO, this sort of irresponsibility should not be tolerated, especially given the weather conditions and size of the area of duristriction.

A similar incident a few years ago where a (Senior) Russian Pilot allowed his kids to fly a A320 resulting in the son killing all on board.

[dabears1020]

Although he sounded quite clear and concise from what I heard, IMHO, this sort of irresponsibility should not be tolerated, especially given the weather conditions and size of the area of duristriction.

A similar incident a few years ago where a (Senior) Russian Pilot allowed his kids to fly a A320 resulting in the son killing all on board.

I totally disagree. The controller was obviously right there making sure everything was okay. The kid only said the most basic and non-critical instructions while the controller handled anything remotely complex. No aircraft was ever even close to being in danger at any time.

[moggy72]

Yeah its cute but that is also bone-chillingly frightening - what on earth was he thinking :o

Its not like this was in some backyard two bit airport - its JFK - very busy, very crowded, with crossing runways!!!!

And what possibly makes it worse is that each and every pilot in that recording seems to think its slightly amusing and nothing untoward about it whatsoever

And dabears1020....I'm a dentist, you don't mind if my 8 year old helps me out with that root canal work you need do ya ;D

Regards

Steve

[evoras]

Hate to be a spoiler, but totally inexcusable......The controller should be fired. Wonder what would have happened if I had brought my daughter to work on the nuclear sub and let her run the reactor??

[dabears1020]

Don't get me wrong, it was inappropriate for sure, but I don't think he should be fired for it. A firm slap on the wrist is enough.

Yeah its cute but that is also bone-chillingly frightening - what on earth was he thinking :o

Its not like this was in some backyard two bit airport - its JFK - very busy, very crowded, with crossing runways!!!!

And what possibly makes it worse is that each and every pilot in that recording seems to think its slightly amusing and nothing untoward about it whatsoever

And dabears1020....I'm a dentist, you don't mind if my 8 year old helps me out with that root canal work you need do ya ;D

Regards

Steve

Honestly I see it as the equivalent as if your 8 year old were sitting there handing you tools when you asked them. Hardly reaching into the patients mouth and filling cavities.

[Adam]

Hate to be a spoiler, but totally inexcusable......The controller should be fired. Wonder what would have happened if I had brought my daughter to work on the nuclear sub and let her run the reactor??

Yeap I totally agree. As harmless as it seemed anything could have happend. Regardless if the controller was standing next to him telling him what to say it's unacceptable.

[Maurice_King]

Totally inexcusable, Regulations are in place all over the world to maintain the highest standard of safety, the bring ther kid to work is fine for observation but not to handle any traffic IMHO.

If this happened in Oz the Controller would be dismissed without appeal,

Even though the Calls made were of low grade except the clear for takeoff I think I heard , it is still not on.

[chumley]

........ bone-chillingly frightening .........................

Regards

Steve

A bit of an over reaction. Yes, the controller was wrong but bone-chillingly - give me a break

Aybe

[moggy72]

........ bone-chillingly frightening .........................

Regards

Steve

A bit of an over reaction. Yes, the controller was wrong but bone-chillingly - give me a break

Aybe

Yes it is bone chillingly frightening - to me anyway. I agree its not in the sense of what actually happened in that some kid was giving "relatively" minor instructions, and I also agree there is a "cutesy" aspect to it (but only partly because they "got away with it"), but its exceptionally scary in the other aspects of it:

1) that a controller at JFK was allowed to do this

2) that a controller at JFK actually thought this was acceptable

3) that others, including I assume his boss, within the (I would imagine very busy) tower did not prevent/do something about it

4) that the pilots being "controlled" by the boy seem to find it amusing and nothing out of the ordinary.

An over-reaction??? - I don't think so as I think you miss the point of this incident. That sort of complacent attitude/culture, and from numerous individuals, on a bad day in that environment will only lead to disaster.

He should be fired, as should his boss, as should any of the other colleagues in that tower that were complicit in this sorry incident - period.

Regards

Steve

[swraymac]

i can't help but feel this is another example of latent western moral outrage. i thought only us aussies felt guilty about everything? ;D ;D

Sean.

[skypilot]

I fail to see how it was obvious the was a controller there and,

If I heard that, how would I know it was the legitimate instruction/clearance and not kids breaking in on the frequency? If I had heard that (Cleared for take off) I would have asked for some sort of confirmation on another frequency possibly - How do I know it is not a kid mucking around in the tower where they should not be,  while his dad was distracted doing something else looking after his other child doing something else?

The child giving the instructions is not licensed doing something that can have drastic consequences. The controller should be fired. If this is the level of his professionalism what else does he do?

[John Bosch]

I'm not sure what to think of this. It's not appropriate, but was it truly dangerous?

This was tower, not approach. So all that was happening is clearance to land and takeoff. All a tower controller is really doing is relaying commands from the approach guys as they open holes for arriving and departing aircraft. Tower is the least stressing of ATC jobs. Really, the boy was clear and concise and probably more understandable than some of the pilots who don't have english as a first language (no insult intended). How much different is this to a trainee ATC being fed instructions by an experienced controller sitting next to him?

Also, the pilot is fully in command. ATC is there to help the pilot, not command him. This is drummed in to pilots from day one. It is he that judges if the instructions he has been given are safe and correct. for this reason he must be listening to all instructions from ATC and know what is going on around him on the field. Any one of those pilots could (and should) have asked for clarrification and/or comment from the ATC if they suspected foul play or thought it unsafe. The very fact that they didn't either means the pilots themselves need kicking or they thought the situation safe enough.

I think the biggest issue is the judgement of the father. Not because of the safety aspects of the issue but because surely he must have thought "this could seriously get my butt kicked" before he even started. Surely he did not expect this to just pass by and nobody comment! What a stupid way to risk your job!

[swraymac]

i agree totally with John. though the FAA won't.

Sean.

[Extra260]

I'm not sure what to think of this. It's not appropriate, but was it truly dangerous?

I think it was incredibly dangerous, all it takes is a kid with a hand held radio at the airport fence to start pretending to be ATC... I'm amazed the pilots didn't question the calls.. I know I would have if I was flying and a kid started issuing instructions.

[Nyxx]

I have to say imo its nothing and people over reacting as normal in this day and age of politic correctness etc.

Listen to the pilots, end of story. The Controller would have been 100% in control and it was nothing more than a bit of fun that had 0 chance to go wrong.

Blown out of all per-portion as normal. It was proberly a once in life time for the children and dont forget there would have been other controlers around.

It was a bit of fun, yes he should get told not to do it again ever! and a slap but nothing more.

I let my boy stand on my lap in the car and "drive" it down a side road when he was 5, bless him he loved it, I was fully in charge but hey "OMG ring the police".

[John Bosch]

I'm not sure what to think of this. It's not appropriate, but was it truly dangerous?

I think it was incredibly dangerous, all it takes is a kid with a hand held radio at the airport fence to start pretending to be ATC... I'm amazed the pilots didn't question the calls. I know I would have if I was flying and a kid started issuing instructions.

Sorry for the late reply. I've been down the coast fishing .

The difference here being the banter at the beginning with the actual controller. He said it was his kid. A kid with a hand held would have been questioned by ATC immediately, thereby setting everybody on edge. We don't even know what was said before the incident. For all we know the controller could have said "Hey everybody, my kid is going to issue a few simple calls. Anybody mind?". Every pilot seemed to know who it was and none seemed concerned. I think it was inexcusably stupid, and I'd have been concerned about the ATC's judgement if I was one of the pilots (if he does this kind of act what other judgement calls does he screw up), but I don't think the situation was as dangerous as the media was hyping it up to be.

[ausfly]

Parents pandering to children. Makes them feel grown-up. Makes them think it's ok to do anything a grown-up can do.

Cute? Irresponsible adult by my reckoning.

I've never flown an on-line virtual airline - could this be a Flight Simulator VA recording?

[flyguy737]

hi all. Well there is alot of debate over this issue and I want to add my 2 cents worth as a pilot. Would I be worried if a kid gave me instructions about my departure? answer yes and no. If I heard a kids voice on the radio first I would still check visually to see I was clear second I would like to have been told in advance that this was going to happen.

The father must have had permission to allow his kid to do this but at what cost? Now he has no job, his supervisor has no job and the kid probably could face FBI, CIA and FAA investigations for terrorist activities. Now granted that might sound over the top but with Airport security the way it is now after 9/11 this is a real possibility.

How would anyone know that it was coming from the control tower and not some kid mucking around on a portable air radio? I'm sure the father meant well, however this type of action is wrong. It would be the same if a police officer allowed his kid to talk on a police radio during a pursuit!

I think the father and the supervisor should have consulted the FAA before doing this at least is they said yes it would be their fault.

Anyway that's my thought's.

Cheers all

[Guest]

As we do not know what was said to the pilots beforehand, I find it difficult to comment.  I used to take my eldest daughter to our training range days and taught her how to fire my Glock when she still liked to do stuff with Dad (not 'cool' any more though  ), it was supervised and controlled, should I have been taken to task?

[Martin Henare]

I think its a total over reaction, and agree with John that it was more a bad idea from a job security point of view.

One pilot reads back "your doing a great job" which clearly indicates he knew what was going on and who the kids were.

The kids never would made any decisions, just saying what dad has told them to say. None of the instructions they gave were remotely complex. Just rehersed lines that have probaly heard dad say a million times.

I have seen arguements about what authority ATC have over the operations of an aircraft. but it very limited. In bad weather ATC can't tell a pilot he is not allowed to take off because of the weather as the safety of the aircraft is the pilots responsibility. So approval to take off is mearly that there are no know obsticles in the way eg other aircraft.

I mean "contact departures, good day" is hardly a complex instruction and one that you cant really go wrong considering the pilots would be expecting the instruction and have radios pretuned as they climb out havig done it many may times. Its just a polite way of saying "were done talking see you next time"

This would have been at the very low end of the safety breach spectrum.

[Nyxx]

Personally Dale No, its not even worth talking about, I'm sure you both had fun and enjoyed the time together.

But reading from the replies above am sure some would have you serving a very long jail sentence now : and your daughter should be watched closely for terrorist activities.  :