John Dow Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Hi gurus I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has hands-on knowledge of any of the following: Velociraptor 150GB ($205.00) Good seek times, good sustained throughput. Samsung Spinpoint 1TB 7200RPM ($105.00) Slowest seek times, best sustained throughput. Best value if good enough for FSX!!!! Any of the 64GB SSD around the $250-$350 mark (Samsung, Intel, OCZ etc) Much faster seek times, slower sustained throughput. I've read that the SSDs degrade over time, particularly in read/write cycles, but I would assume that flying FSX is only read-dependant, and slower write times aren't of much concern. In FSX, once the scenery has loaded, I'm thinking that the seek times are the most important to load the textures as fast as possible, and the sustained throughput is of less importance. Any knowledgeable recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piotrek_K Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 SSD - they do degrade overtime, but there is already a solution, search the web - i.e anandtech. Personally, i would go SSD and then Veloc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeronauta Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Ideally SSD but for best performance overall 2xVelocyraptors (10K) in Raid 0 config (stripping) not really a RAID as does not have redundancy but neither has a single disk . FSX makes use of fast disks when turning (your head or the aircraft) as the panning of the scenery needs lots of new data very quickly, as opposed to straight flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotspot Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 recommendations? In the process of building a system with a 150Gb Velociraptor for OS (W7) : a 128Gb Patriot TorquX for FSX, a WD 500Gb Black for FS9 and whatever else. Backup is a couple of spare WD 500's, green and blue. I understand the slow down prob has been fixed, but if not time will tell and no doubt the next gen of SSD's will be bigger and cheaper. It is a hoot to just drop an SSD in the bottom of the case and pin it down. Will see how they run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dow Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Looking forward to seeing the rsults, Hotspot. I don't suppose you'll be installing two test versions of FSX, one on SSD one on HDD for an authoritative comparison??? hint hint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Jon - as luck would have it ... my dev machine consists of 2 x SSDs (System drive) RAID0 - mine are older gen enterprise SSL SSD's 64Gb x 2 SATA 2 Velociraptors (300Gb x 2) in RAID0 1 x Spinpoint 1Tb (Non-Raid) - as a storage drive. The SSD and Velociraptors are MUCH faster than the spinpoint, but in $/Gb they are much less cost effective. As a guide the SSDs will give a CONSTANT 200Mb throughput with HDtune, and a seek time of 0.1msec. The velociraptors sustained and burst rates are higher (not so for the current release SSDs I gather) but a seek time of 8ms. You don't need RAID for the current crop of SSDs and indeed with the "partial write" speed degradation it is probably not a good thing to do (didn't know that, did I?) I would get an OCZ Vertex drive (actually - I'd probably get two, as I like to have FSX separate from the rest, but any performance gains from that with an SSD are probably negligible) The spinpoint is a competent 1Tb drive, with speeds like you might expect. I could not go back to a single 7200 install now. I use it because developing scenery chews up Gb and Gb of space -- and I keep everything. The other option, you shouldn;t discount is two spinpoints in RAID0 or 3 in RAID5 - if you really need redundancy. Remember a single drive failure in RAID0 = total system catastrophe (the risk you take for speed) For me ? SSDs are an option Velociraptors as a second option in RAID or alone or a third option is a RAID0 array of two Spinpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dow Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Hi Ian thanks for the info as well. From what I've been led to assume, and looking at your system, I'm guessing that you would have none of the texture loading issues that I have, even when looking left and right in texture hungry airports like YMML and YBBN? For me frame rates down to the low teens are acdeptable in highest density scenery areas, but I dislike texture loading problems such as black squares around approach lighting, and the tiled loading of PR polys over a certain size. I am assuming that an SSD will help deal with any texture loading issues more than either of the HDDs I've quoted? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Frames won't really improve with HDD - but smoothness may in certain circumstances. I have minimal to no texture-load lag and great frames at YBBN (..... since the secret's already out). "Re-load" for detailed scenery (say on turning finals) when a barrage of detailed scenery comes into view - there is minimal lag. I ran Dual Velociraptors on a Dual Core ... but the combo of Corei7 and VR's is very nice in terms of minimal lag (particularly on detailed hi-res photoreal). FSX startup is also greatly improved - important for me, particularly as developing involves a great deal of stop / restarting the sim / test / alter / restart, etc ... You WILL notice a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Just ordered two Intel SSD X25-M G2 Postville 160GB. Might take a while until they arrive here though because Win7 is part of that order... And no, they don't degrade - not in this PC lifetime... They clutter up, but TRIM (which the G2 can use) is around the corner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM_%28SSD_command%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 SSD in Raid 0 is a waste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Actually Mozz - for my drives it isn't - but for the current gen, there are some downsides - and minimal benefit. So, yes - not worth the expense with a SATAII current gen drive that can push 250Mb/s. Mine clears only 120Mb/s each, and I really used them for the reduced latency for the system drive (which works a treat BTW). And yes - tests show that you can psh up to 900Mb/s with 9 drives. The question always comes down to : why? and how much? TRIM is not properly implemented yet - but a TRIM capable drive seems to be the way to go and no, you don;t need RAID0 with a current SSD drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 As a guide and bearing in mind SSDs are much faster now: Some (not so up to date, but reference ) http://www.hdtune.com/testresults.html The second pic is two 300Gb Velociraptors - the only thing being - I'd suggest getting a standalone RAID controller - the Gigabyte one is ... er, well, not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I was thinking more along the lines of the data rate for the drives far exceeds the capability of the interface on the MoBo, but then again wht you buy today is bloody near obsolete tomorrow too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Venema Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 2x Velociraptors on a dedicated Adaptec RAID controller is pretty much as good as it can get for now, other than perhaps the Gen3 SSD's with TRIM support. I agree with Ian, the Gigabyte onboard RAID is a pile of doggy doo and for Uber2, we had to move to a dedicated controller to get stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotspot Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 but then again wht you buy today is bloody near obsolete tomorrow too. So right Mozz. My idea is to have the Patriot TorqX (which is the only one with a ten year warranty and good reviews re the possible drawbacks of SSD's), dedicated to FSX and upgrade other HDD's to solid state as they improve and become cheaper. Although having said that I am tempted to get a second Torqx for the w7 OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennyson Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Ok, all this talk about SSD's. I agree with Heiko, the Intel Gen2's look good at the moment. I took a look at my list of distributors and 900 bucks is the best they can come up with for a 160Gb G2. Does anybody know of any other distributors (anywhere in Oz but close to Brissie would be nice)that sell Intel SSD's at reasonable prices? I checked the US on line sites and Newegg sell them for about 600 Aus, but not sure if they ship to Oz and what a nightmare for RA. Thanx guys, Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Routley Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Scorptec have them for $815. Its not much better, but it is a start (mind you ... add in shipping and its not much different) Whatever you pay - it will be cheaper and faster and more capacity than my two SSDs bought < 1 year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dow Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 I just bought a 64GB GSkill Falcon (220MB/Sec read) from MSY tech in QLD for $272.00 delivered. Very basic website and service but good prices. I had an order sitting in checkout at MTech for a Torqx Patriot for $278 last night and went to complete it this morning and it had shot up to $335! Now I can't get on the site so maybe they were hacked. From what I can gather the Intel SSDs although top of the range, aren't needed for FSX as the extra performance particularly in read/write cycles isn't really needed for the flightsim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Ordered two Intel SSD X25-M G2 Postville 160GB and hope they are available before the next ice age... Since i can save the VAT it's ~ 315 EUR (~ 530 AUD) per drive. Still not a bargain... ...as the extra performance particularly in read/write cycles isn't really needed for the flightsimOh it is, believe me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennyson Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 A 64 Gb SSD would be no good for me. My FSX/FTX folder is in excess of that already and I got a lot more to put in it, so I reckon with an install of Win 7 and FSX, I need a minimum of 160gb for my primary drive. On another note, I spoke to a salesperson (with a bit of knowlege) today from a reputable PC shop and he tells me there is a SSD coming that is by OCZ, I believe, that is not SATA but PCI express. Apparently faster, he says. He looked it up on the shop PC, but couldn't find a listing. Not sure if he was smokin' the old whacky tobaccy or not. I certainly haven't heard of it. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Yeah, it sure will come for PCI-E. But like always - you can spend years with your 'old' stuff waiting for new tech, instead of enjoying your hobby with actual and available hardware. I was waiting way too long already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
))i7((SLI-Fire Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I think this is what you are looking for Frank. And the price in AUS for the 250Gig is just $2499.00. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/solid_state_drives/ocz_z_drive_p84_pci_express_ssd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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