rockliffe Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 I have just purchased the Lancair aircraft and also installed the latest patch. What a difference to my 185 Cessna!!! I have noticed, that there's rather an irritating shimmer around some of the instruments that becomes worse when zooming in or out, it looks like some AA issue. I have Nvidia inspector applied with the recommended settings. Is this something that other Lancair owners have and are aware of, or is it something I can eradicate with a bit of tweaking, and if so, any advice would be gratefully received... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanbatc Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 I have the same problem... It's probably something to do with mip maps and anti aliasing... if I had to guess. I just got used to it... p.s. oh - it seems to lessen if you go with the SD paint version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 Hi Ryanbatc, OK, I really wanted to make sure it wasn't me Maybe it's something the guys at Orbx wil have a patch for...(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanbatc Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Hard to say. I thought it was my video card + drivers. I only run 8x AA, and my system is much less than yours. So maybe the people that run 16x aa make it look good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolP Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 I'd say that shimmering of any kind is more graphic card (and driver) related than to something from the model itself. If you enable e. g. transparency antialiasing with sparse grid, all shimmering will be gone but your card will have a huge workload to fulfill. Seems like the enhancements Nvidia made with the 2xx drivers causes some more shimmering on all 3D gauges while the 2D stuff still remains somehow smoother. I experience those shimmering gauges on some other 3D gauge planes too and, as said, the only way to get rid of them is to look for some transparency antialiasing. So I doubt that a patch of any kind can help here as this is no model caused error but a setup related one in my eyes. It has something to do with how the normal antialiasing works. It can't catch up on some types of texture and you won't see an improvement there, because even if you run 32x, those special textures aren't anti-aliased at all (or only at there invisible edges, not on those you see shimmering) . Only transparency antialiasing can help you here, it detects the visible edges of e. g. a pointer on a gauge and then smooths it. The trees in FSX are another example, their edges shimmer without at least a supersampling AA component being activated. Another solution would be a real full scene antialiasing (so the whole screen is covered, with no exceptions) and you can enable this somehow proprietary approach but you won't get a performance out of it that fits to flight sim needs. That's one of the reasons why Nvidia and AMD went for the somehow focused modes, enabling a high performance way of smoothing some lines on your screen. The current Morphological AA from AMD is one of those full screen approaches, usually described as "post-processing" because it gets applied after all rendering stages while the normal way of AA is build in those steps (for e. g. performance reasons). The overhead on the post-processing way is huge, so your fps take a severe hit. Try to enable transparency AA like "4x supersampling" and check the gauges and trees again. This setting will help and should work on lower cards without losing too much fps. Sadly, heavy clouds scenes will have a bigger impact now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanbatc Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Well I've never had this much shimmering... and I own a lot of payware planes... But it could just be that VC's are more demanding than they used to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjallen Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 nVidia Inspector 1.94 AA=8x Combined SS with SS set to 4x Sparse Grid. This will fix the prob IMO. jja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 Ah, cool. I have inspector installed, I'll try it out tomorrow. Hey guys, just a thought and I think I know the answer, I don't suppose there's a way of getting rid of those darn irritating sun vosors is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Charalambous Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 The shimmering is mostly caused by the resolution of the instruments and the way that we force them to be rendered without Mip switching. Unfortunatley FSX will not render normal HD textures without Using the TML tweak. It automaticaly switches to the 1024 Mip. To prevent this we saved all the textures without mips which forces the card to render at the maximum resolution in this case 2048. The problem with doing this is that the card can't switch below the 1024 mip like it would normaly to prevent shimmering as the zoom is reduced. This can be minimised in the card settings but it can also come at a performance hit. We could have of course Simply saved them normaly but then every time a change is made in the UI the fsx.cfg would have to be re-edited to include the TML tweak. A solution that IMHO simply isn't good enough! So for now it is on the list of things that we will explore further but currently don't have a solid fix for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanbatc Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Thanks for the explanation! I will note the gauges are some of the highest res I've ever seen.... for analogue at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhayes Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Jared It may not be your problem at all. I was told that nVidia did something to the AA/AF in the new 259x/260x drivers to improve the overall IQ of the 4xx series cards. As one poster says above it can be "cured" using at least 4x Sparse grid SS in nVidia Inspector (I have to use 8 x SGSS for some planes). I have seen similar "swimming gauges" in the A2A Cub, Quest Kodiak and the Flight 1 Conquest and SGSS fixes them. The caveat with Sparse Grid SS is that is very hard on frame rates. Regards PeterH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I see some shimmering with 8xS AA but it's completely gone with 8xSQ (nVidia Inspector). 1920x1200 res and latest whql driver. No gamma correction or any other AA features applied (combined only). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I always had the annoying shimmering in the Lancair. Will have to follow these notes and see if I can get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjallen Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I always had the annoying shimmering in the Lancair. Will have to follow these notes and see if I can get riod of it. Do it - you will be quite pleased when you figure it out. Experiment but AA=8s Combined should do it. Try the SS settings but 4X seems to work best in clouds. Also one thing that is annoying is that each nVidia driver seems to need a different 'override' or 'enhance' game setting. Always use Ansio and AA=on in FSX. Good luck jja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 I will try this... as a matter of interset guys, I have only had my GTX470 for about two weeks and Nvidia inspector for a week. Can I ask a silly question, but do I need to input Inspector every time I start FSX? The reason I ask, is that although I have Vsync enabled, it seems to have stopped working for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjallen Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I will try this... as a matter of interset guys, I have only had my GTX470 for about two weeks and Nvidia inspector for a week. Can I ask a silly question, but do I need to input Inspector every time I start FSX? The reason I ask, is that although I have Vsync enabled, it seems to have stopped working for some reason No - the settings are in the registry and get wiped out if you select 'clean install' when installing a new nVidia Driver. Force vSync on in nVidia Inspector or use an FSX.cfg setting jja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Sure, that's what I thought. However, if I force Vsync in FSX should I disable it in Inspector? Or if the two are active, can there be a conflict?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjallen Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Sure, that's what I thought. However, if I force Vsync in FSX should I disable it in Inspector? Or if the two are active, can there be a conflict?? Probably one or the other. jja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Many thanks, I'll try that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjallen Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Also - Peter Hayes says that vSync causes stutters and I am starting to agree with him. Turned it off today and WOW! Smoother than a babies bottom. jja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 nVidia Inspector 1.94 AA=8x Combined SS with SS set to 4x Sparse Grid. This will fix the prob IMO. jja Worked like a charm. Now it looks way better, no more shimmering. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjallen Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 nVidia Inspector 1.94 AA=8x Combined SS with SS set to 4x Sparse Grid. This will fix the prob IMO. jja Worked like a charm. Now it looks way better, no more shimmering. Thanks. Should work in most planes. have a good flight. jja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heiko Glatthorn Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Just for the record, that's my (simple) setup - no shimmer, good AA, good performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 Thanks Heiko, now that's what I call useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanbatc Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 1920x1200 res and latest whql driver I think this plays a large role as well. See, I'm a mere mortal on a 5:4 19in LCD, 1280x1024 res. I think if I had higher res monitor the problem would partially go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockliffe Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share Posted November 29, 2010 Hi, sure I have tried Heiko's setting and confirm that, although not completely successful with my system, there has been enough of an improvement that it is no longer a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolP Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 The real improvement will come with that sparse grid transparency AA setting mentioned by jjjallen. If you run relatively low resolutions like 1280x1024 this shouldn't kill your performance even on older cards. Just stick to a normal (non supersampled) AA mode when going with supersampling on the transparency stuff to avoid too high loads on older cards. You could even, for testing purposes, disable all normal AA and enable the transparency stuff to see how it improves the gauges on planes like the Lancair. Really a neat feature for image quality but one has to be careful in combining it with the other settings, otherwise even GTX 580 cards will struggle at cloudy skies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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