Overclocking

[^33^Amc]

Ok then.

First of all i would like to extend my congrats to you guys at Orbx systems and all that were involved. My copy is currently in the mail some where and i am looking forward to getting it.

Now, coming back to the topic point. Overclocking. I have heard you guys talk a little about it in a few posts. For me, i have been interested in doing this for a while, but google does not seem to be coming through for me, they talk about it, but they don't tell you how.

System Specs.

Cpu: Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2.40 GHz

M/B: Gigabyte S Series GA-945P-S3

G/C: Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT BUS speed PCI Express x 16. 256mb

Mem: 2 Gig ram

Sound: Running off the motherboard.

H/D: 600Gig

what i am looking at doing is overclocking the CPU and Graphics card.

Ok... What i am asking is... HELP!!

does anyone know how to do any of this stuff and can explain it in stupid to me?

[jgruschow]

Your system should o'clock without too much trouble, But be very, very careful.

It's too involved to explain here. Suggest you get a professional to help. It can be dangerous.

And watch your cooling. More speed = more heat.

[^33^Amc]

Thanks jack. i realize this... and i know that it is dangerous...

Currently i have 5 fans running inside it, sitting at a pleasant 23 degrees...

Also, is your system overclocked?

[Maurice_King]

If you need to over-clock then you should have bought a faster processor to start with.

Overclocking is inherently unstable and you also run the risk of internal damage from track overrun and burning as the processor load increases.

My advice based on many years of PC work is DON'T,

 

[akaluke]

You could start by reading here:

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/

Start with the Newbie Lounge

For your computer and level of experience, I'd start with a mild overclock. Don't adjust any voltages.

In the simplest possible terms:

You're going to get into your BIOS and make a few adjustments.

Then you are going to use a program called Prime95 to make sure it's stable.

Repeat until it's not stable.

[Barry Meiklejohn]

The advice above is all sound. You must be aware (and I'm sure you are), that overclocking can be fraught with peril.

BUT...

If you still want to try the very first thing you need to find out is where the BIOS reset jumpers on your motherboard are. You may need to manually reset the BIOS if all goes pear shaped.

I will provide this advice on the understanding that it is NOT recommended by ORBX.

Your processor is more than capable of being overclocked. I too have a Core2Duo E6600 which runs natively at 2.4Ghz overclocked to 3.4Ghz in my system. Everybodies mileage will vary due to different components etc. The most important aspects are what motherboard you have and does it offer overclocking options and what RAM you have, because memory will be where you generally run into instability issues first.

What you need to do is get into the BIOS of your Gigabyte motherboard. You should see an option for adjusting frequency and voltages. As mentioned above by Akaluke, do not touch the voltages. This is an area you can play with after you have done a lot more research and feel more confident.

The mechanics of overclcoking the E6600 come down to multiplier x front side bus frequency. Specifically, the E6600 is locked on a 9x multiplier. This can not be changed. So you must therefore increase the frequency of the FSB. By default your motherboard should have set 266Mhz as 9x266=2394 (or 2.4Ghz). Try a mild overclock to 300mhz which will attain 9x300=2700 (or 2.7Ghz).

Things that might go wrong here relate primarily to your memory. Your RAM also receives its speed from the FSB. If your memory is DDR2-566mhz then you may force it to run at a speed where it becomes unstable. This will manifest itself as either the motherboard not booting and reverting back to the correct BIOS settings, or booting but Windows not booting correctly (necessitating a manual BIOS reset, possibly from the jumpers on the motherboard), or Windows booting but programs crashing or locking up, (again necessitatating a BIOS reset).

If your RAM is 566mhz ram you still may be able to overclock by looking for a BIOS setting that allows you to adjust the multiplier for the RAM. You may then be able to manipulate the multiplier and FSB to achieve a frequency that allows for stable memory performance.

CAUTION:

If any of the above information sounds scary, or you don't understand it, then do more research. It sounds scary because playing around with overclocks can destroy your computer. Make sure all your important information is backed up, and plan out your strategies in case things go wrong. Never enter an overclocking proposition that this will workout, always bear in the back of your mind that things can go wrong and be prepared to accept the consequences.

If you still decide to go ahead, good luck and feel free to report your results back here or seek further advise.

[Heiko Glatthorn]

Our Tech Guru at FSW wrote a nice guide too :

http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56097

Worth a read  .

[^33^Amc]

I was wondering when you were going to pop you head in here Heiko...

Thanks for that barry...

currently,

Robust Graphics Booster : Auto

CIA2: Disabled

CPU Host Freq : 200 MHz (I will change this to 300) and wait hold on, should it not be set to 266?

PCI Express Freq: Auto (Thinking about changing this, Should i?)

System Memory Multiplier: Auto

Mem Freq: 667

DIMM OverVoltage control normal

etc.

hmmm... what ya think?

[Barry Meiklejohn]

CPU Host Freq : 200 MHz (I will change this to 300) and wait hold on, should it not be set to 266?

It is possible this is the default once you changed from AUTO.

PCI Express Freq: Auto (Thinking about changing this, Should i?)

No

Keep an eye on your mem frequency as you ramp up the FSB. You should know the specs of your memory chips. Are they PC6400 (800mhz) chips? This is the speed you need to keep them at. Use the System Memory Multiplier to do so.

[^33^Amc]

Ram is Veritech DDR2 667.

267MHz fCK for 533Mb/sec/pin, 333MHz fCKfor 667Mb/sec/pin,400MHz fCK for 800Mb/sec/pin

I have two of these. so 2 Gig of RAM.

I have OCCT & MBM 5.

Current Specs :

[^33^Amc]

Ok, so i went and did it. took me two attempts.

The first one, i saved and started it up agian, came to the windows loading page and spat the dummie, so i did it again, worked without a problem.

I moved it from 9 x 2667 (2.4GHz) to --> 9 x 300, which i now realize is hardly anything at all, well not hardly, but a small amount. I ended up getting an extra .2 GHZ on the processor, it is now running at 2.66.67 GHz with the bus clock at 300.21 MHz.

Just ran a test on it, temperature peaked at 36c voltage remained the same as what it was at 2667.

results are as shown.

I am off to run FSX without FTX because i don't have it...  but anyway, i will let you know if there is any visible difference..

[akaluke]

Download CPUz and use it to check your memory speed. You need to be very mindful of your memory speed when overclocking.

And the only thing I trust for temps is Coretemp.

The fact that windows wouldn't load the first time, but then did load suggests either you did something wrong, or it's not stable.

BTW - eventually you'll need to run OCCT for a significant period of time to make sure it's stable (run it overnight).

And the voltages won't change unless you change them (which I'd advise against for the time being).

Oh - and a 10% overclock is bit higher than hardly anything at all )

[akaluke]

PS - you've just gone from a 2.4 to a 2.7....how much money did that save you ;-)

[^33^Amc]

hehe i realized what i did wrong, i had a disk in the drive at the time, just took that off, so it was a bit confused...

well, the standard of FSX was very very good, usually maxed out on all features i would be heavily lagging, that time i was only slightly, so it did improve it dramatically.

I enjoyed that, did some more research and downloaded some new stuff, CPUz was one of them, memory was doing just fine, temp was beautiful, voltage (leave it until i read up on it more), but i decided to step it up a notch, i know you people would say, your an idiot for trying, but what the hell... If i break it, i need an update anyway just thought this could prevent if for a few months.. anyway, decided to go 9 x 350. results 3.15 GHz. temp fine, test showed max of 48c respectfully.. not bad.

[akaluke]

are you running OCCT for 30 minutes?

Try running it for a few hours. There's a good chance you are not stable.

.

.

.

We've created a monster ;-)

I hope you've got a spare computer you can use to post for help when you can't boot ;-)

PS - you have to click the ON button in OCCT and let it run for 30mins absolute minumum. Lets see the scerenshots of OCCT saying "Stable"

[Heiko Glatthorn]

This CPU is capable to run at 3.2 (FSB 355) without any drama. Maybe your RAM are good for a 1:1 divider, which means in this case you o/c them as well from 667 MHz to 710 MHz. When you got only a stock cooler, your problem will be the temps. Vcore 1.40 - 1.45 v is considered save. As long as you can keep your stress test temperature < 60 C it will be fine. I run 1.525 v at 3.6 GHz (water cooled) since 15 month. The CPU throttles afaik at 85 C - so 60 C is no problem (FSX will run average 5 to 10 C lower). Those OCCT pictures show a very low vcore - is that energy safe mode ? I don't know Gigabyte boards...

However, try to boot with FSB 333 - if this doesn't work increase your voltage slightly and keep an eye on the temps. Good air cooler (f.e. Zalmann) are not very expensive btw.

[^33^Amc]

that voltage there is at idle, the current settings for the voltage is set to Auto, i don't really want to go there at the moment, but at the moment for the standard fan that i have, the fans that i added on the mother board chips, two 84mm fans that came with the box, it aint doing to bad, but yes, i whilst i was waiting, i went onto centrecom last night, had a look at some fans for $50. and then there is the option of, once i start playing around with the voltages, water or oil cooled, but like i said, i will look into these.

Gigabyte motherboards. cheap and nasty i am afraid. They get the job done, but in a dirty way. when i got this pc, i was a bit rapped for cash, so i, got an ok CPU & G/C, and spent as little on the other components. I really should have gotten an XFX one. my last one had one of them in it, until the damn thing shorted out from the house getting struck by lightning, remember that storm in Feb of last year in Melbourne, where we had something like 200mm of rain? well yeah...

Also, i DID run that test last night, and it did report back as STABLE, but they temp peaked at 75c.... hmmm... no. but it was a warm night last night... could have effected it.. but anyway, i decided to drop it back this morning to 9 x 310 = 2791.67 (2.8 GHz) until i get a better cooling system in.

Ok. Now for the good stuff.

Front BUS load. By increasing this, i know that i will increase not just the CPU, but also any other hardware on my mother board. Memory, G/C, S/C if you have it. I also know that if i do this, it is going to get very very hot in there... Worth it.. or... am i already doing this.?

akaluke, i can tell that you are not happy with me in doing this..

you have to click the ON button in OCCT and let it run for 30mins absolute minumum. Lets see the scerenshots of OCCT saying "Stable"

hint of sarcasm in that last one by any chance? 

And of course i have... OCCT produces 5 or 6 different reports. Voltage for each processor, temp and Stability. Upon finishing, OCCT closes and brings up these reports.

[akaluke]

just a tiny bit of sarcasm...

I should and do apologise.

I'm really happy that you're getting good results - I can only reiterate that you really need to be sure it's stable. If it's not, you could very well end up with BSODs, random reboots and a variety of other problems. These could occur days, weeks or months down the track.

A note on cooling. It's not just the case fans that matter. Even more important is CPU heatsink and fan. The aftermarket heatsinks and fans are much much more effective at keeping temps down than the stock heatsink/fan and any number of case fans. Don't worry too much about case fans (it sounds like you've got that covered), consider a non-stock CPU heatsink/fan.

A note on voltages. I'm not sure what the auto voltage setting is doing. I usually find out what the stock voltage for my CPU is and start by manually setting a  voltage in the BIOS to correspond with the stock reading in CPUz. Ie. If BIOS says 1.25, CPUz says 1.20 and stock is 1.30, I'd set the BIOS to 1.35. Your voltages really shouldn't change much at all just by increasing the FSB or multipliers. It's only when you actually specify different voltages in the BIOS that you will see any changes.

A note on temps. Personally, I don't worry about temps too much. It's actually pretty difficult to damage a CPU nowdays. With my (somewhat limited) overclocking experience, I find that my PC becomes unstable and/or I'm pushing voltages too high above stock before the temps get high enough that I'd start to worry. That's with my Q6600 and my Ultra 120.

Finally, if you ran OCCT overnight and it reported stable, I wouldn't worry too much about a peak of 75C (as measured by Coretemp, nothing else is reliable, many programs under report temps)...

An overnight run of OCCT is a pretty good indicator. Looks like your doing OK! Congrats on your first overclock!

For what it's worth I'm running:

ASUS Maximus Extreme|Q6600|Ultra 120|2x1GB Corsair DDR3 1800MHz|Gainward 8800GT 1GB|Antec Quattro 1000W|Antec 900|1.5 TB Seagates|Dell 2407WFP-HC|Vista 32

My 24/7 overclock:

Q6600 2.4GHz running at 3.735GHz

Yep, overclocking does give some very real performance benefits.

Cheers.

[akaluke]

...snip...

Also, i DID run that test last night, and it did report back as STABLE, but they temp peaked at 75c.... hmmm... no. but it was a warm night last night... could have effected it.. but anyway, i decided to drop it back this morning to 9 x 310 = 2791.67 (2.8 GHz) until i get a better cooling system in.

...snip...

Front BUS load. By increasing this, i know that i will increase not just the CPU, but also any other hardware on my mother board. Memory, G/C, S/C if you have it. I also know that if i do this, it is going to get very very hot in there... Worth it.. or... am i already doing this.?

Yep, you're already doing this...that's the '310' value you mentioned.

[Heiko Glatthorn]

IMO 75 C is to HIGH for a 24/7 setup. You are doing right to wait for a good cooler. Your RAM are designed to run at 667 MHz, so a FSB 333 1:1 will be a sweet spot (maybe a little higher is possible). After you got your temps fixed, we'll have a look into your RAM timings. An increase from 2.4 to 3.0 GHz will give you a noticeable performance boost which you can use for better visuals.

[akaluke]

IMO 75 C is to HIGH for a 24/7 setup. You are doing right to wait for a good cooler. Your RAM are designed to run at 667 MHz, so a FSB 333 1:1 will be a sweet spot (maybe a little higher is possible). After you got your temps fixed, we'll have a look into your RAM timings. An increase from 2.4 to 3.0 GHz will give you a noticeable performance boost which you can use for better visuals.

Mango is correct - your CPU has a lower max temp than my quad. 75C may well be too high. My bad.

[Heiko Glatthorn]

Well, 75 C might be possible, but i am not sure about the long term side effects. ~1.375 - 1.40 v at <60 C (stress) won't harm the CPU for sure.

[^33^Amc]

Wow this topic seems to be a hit, 300 views or something...

anyway, thanks for you help... I can see that you are enjoying doing this when it is not your machine that is at the risk of stuffing up hehehe, like i said, this is a learning experience, and if all things fail, and everything crashes and gets destroyed, i need a new one anyway..

moving right on...

I have picked out two fans that i like. always better to go and see them down there, they seem to take a considerable amount off the price when you see them in person. especially George, great guy. so yeah, these are the two that i am looking at.

• Zalman CNPS7500-Cu-LED CPU Cooler $57

  http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=23754

  

or this one, which i am personally trying to find out what the difference is besides the price. this one is $12.30 more at $69.30

• Zalman CNPS8700NT CPU Cooler

  http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=29276

  

Those are my two options that i have singled out... any input would be grand.

also, when you say 24/7 setup.. umm what do you mean? me running it 24/7?

Your RAM are designed to run at 667 MHz, so a FSB 333 1:1 will be a sweet spot

Interesting, and what do you mean? you saying that my RAM could do better? Also, voltages,you were saying that they should not be fluctuating... that they should be fixed, well when the processor is idling, they are low, when the processor is running maxed out, voltages go up... max is 3.58V on V and 3.61V on core.

yes i know, lots of questions, but hey, you guys seem to be enjoying this, and it seems to be attracting some attention,so i think i am asking questions that a lot of people would be asking...

Gainward 8800GT 1GB... cough*  here i am with my little 7600 GT

Also, well done on the over clock, what is that 1.335 GHz that you didn't have... DDR3 any difference from DDR2? your going to shoot me in a min from all the questions...

[akaluke]

The coolers are somewhat different - some of the differences:

One is copper, the other is aluminium (I think copper is better). One is designated as "silent" or "quiet". Usually quiet means not quite as good cooling. One is 'low profile', one has an LED fan...

You can get a better comparison from www.pccasegear.com.au. Note: they don't stock the aluminium 8700 but you could compare the 7500 to the copper 8700. Whenever you see "Cu", that means copper.

Voltage...Are you sure you've got the right values?. 3.xV looks more like your 3.3V rails...and your values look a little high. Starting to get beyond my level of expertise though.

I'm not quite sure what values you refer to when you say "max is 3.58V on V and 3.61V on core.". These values are not your CPU voltage. Your stock CPU voltage should be around 1.25V.

In your screen shots above - OCCT is not reporting your VCore (CPU voltage) correctly. Check it with either CPUz or Everest. I've found both of those programs to be reasonably reliable.

BTW - CPU voltage should not fluctuate 'much'. Usually CPU voltage drops a little under load. The voltage change that generally occurs under load is called 'vdroop'. Some motherboard/BIOS combos have a setting to eliminate it. On my ASUS it's called "loadline calibration". Ideally vdroop should be very low.

24/7 - yep - that means running the computer 24hours a day, 7 days a week. Ie, not turning it off overnight etc.

RAM: Yep - yours could probably do better. Let's sort out the CPU and FSB first. That means better cooling at least.

Finally, your power supply. A good power supply is important when overclocking (well, it's always important but more so when overclocking).

That'll do for now ;-)

[^33^Amc]

Well my VCore, under load, changes and increases to 3.26v - 3.56v. if you are saying that it should not change at all, then i have no idea what is going on, but i must say that the temperatures are reading well under to what coretemp is telling me. If both of you beleive that coretemp is correct, then this must be wrong. I will look into it.

Thanks for explaning things to me dude, i think you have posted in this thread more than anywhere else so i thank you for that.

Just to clarify, no i do not leave it on 24/7, i only did that to test it.

power, 550W... think that is the best you can do.

[^33^Amc]

sry double post, but...

DDR 2 or DDR 3? I am just guessing, but is it just the speed of the chip?

[akaluke]

DDR3 is just a newer type of RAM. At the moment it doesn't really give much performance benefit over the fastest DDR2 and you need a different type of motherboard to run DDR3. In 12months or so - DDR3 will be more common that DDR2. Did I mention that DDR3 RAM costs a fortune? Most people would consider me really silly for spending so much on my RAM. I wouldn't recommend it.

Your VCore can't be 3.26V - your CPU would be fried. Post a CPUz and Coretemp screen shot if you want me to have a look.

550W...nah you can get more powerful one's nowadays, mine's 1000W ! Your 550W is probably enough for you though. I run a lot of harddrives, USB devices, a more demanding video card, etc, etc...and I went overboard with my power supply - I could have got away with something less powerful.

Cheers...

Back to work now ;-)

[Heiko Glatthorn]

I heard that one is great:  http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=21368. But a bit expensive...

FSB 333 means that your RAM will run at their designed speed of 666 (667) MHz. On the RAM itself you will probably find a sticker which tells exactly the required voltage and latencies (if not, the manufacturer homepage will hold this data). When those latencies are set in the BIOS to 'Auto' you will run it way to slow. The RAM might be able to run 4-4-4-12 while auto settings are at 5-5-5-15. Not good for the all over performance !

Can you find the main board manual ? There all those BIOS settings are explained. If not, you sure can download it as PDF from their website. It is highly recommended to turn off any energy safety features in the BIOS when you are over clocking. The manual will tell where to find the switch. Anyways, that's only needed for notebooks running on battery, not so important for PCs.

3.5 v vcore is impossible. Default settings are around 1.3 v (depends on the chip). Looks like you get wrong readings (or read wrong  ). Coretemp is a nice little application :  http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/ . And like mentioned above CPUZ is a great helper as well :  http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

[^33^Amc]

ok, sorry, been a bit busy, but, the fan is in the mail... and i decided to take your word for it mango, and pluss they gave it to me for 75 hehehe nice little deal. anyway... my next problem, yes, i do seem to be full of them, but when ever i close down my comp, and turn it back on again, it reverts back to default. 2.4 (9 x 2667). any way that i can stop this?

[akaluke]

ok, sorry, been a bit busy, but, the fan is in the mail... and i decided to take your word for it mango, and pluss they gave it to me for 75 hehehe nice little deal. anyway... my next problem, yes, i do seem to be full of them, but when ever i close down my comp, and turn it back on again, it reverts back to default. 2.4 (9 x 2667). any way that i can stop this?

me again ;-)

This is not an uncommon symptom.

The BIOS is getting set back to defaults. This can be for several possible reasons.

1. The system cannot boot with the current overclocking settings. You'll often hear the computer start, then spin down, then start again, then spin down, then finally start. It's a function built into the motherboard and BIOS. Maybe you are trying to overclock it too hard.

2. There's something faulty. Your motherboard is faulty or your CMOS battery is flat.

3. Your BIOS needs updating.

Note: I had this problem with my last Gigabyte motherboard. It started resetting BIOS only occasionally, but it got worse and worse until it wouldn't hold my overclock settings at all. I returned the motherboard and changed to an ASUS board.

I think this is often referred to as a COLD BOOT PROBLEM.

[Heiko Glatthorn]

Hmmm... like i said, i have no idea about your board. You'll have to study the mobo manual. It's possible that you have to disable that power saving thingy. Or maybe you have to save an over clock profile and tell the BIOS to load it at startup. Do you mount the cooler yourself ? Easy with the thermal compound and force of tools... 

[^33^Amc]

AHAHAHAHA... yea.. i could get a photo of it if you are that interested....

Well like i said, motherboard is a very cheap one... see if i can find it for you, just because I'm a good guy

carter

[Heiko Glatthorn]

Well, i don't need to know your board. You need to know your board - and that means reading the BIOS part of the manual  .

[^33^Amc]

and i have been reading the manual, but in all honesty, it tells me nothing that i already know.

Ok. i am quoting the manual here.

This is what it says for CPU Host Frequency (MHz)

100MHz - 600MHz    set CPU host frequency from 100MHz to 600MHz

If you use a 1066MHz FSB processor, set "CPU Host frequency" to 266 MHz

end quote

[Heiko Glatthorn]

Another great guide :

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147164

[^33^Amc]

Now that is interesting. i will have to get read it through tomorrow...

[macca22au]

Overclocking voids your warranty.    I never thought I would have to exercise my warranty, but I had a videocard develop an electrical fault and the maker took it back and replaced it with a brand new one.

If your CPU dies then you will have to do what you should have done in the first place, upgrade to a fast quadcore - four cores is what you need to transform FSX.

[Tweaker]

Overclocking voids SOME warranties.  I have several components (memory and gfx card particularly) that are allowed to operate within a range above default before warranty is gone.  Check first before you play though!

[akaluke]

Overclocking voids your warranty.    I never thought I would have to exercise my warranty, but I had a videocard develop an electrical fault and the maker took it back and replaced it with a brand new one.

If your CPU dies then you will have to do what you should have done in the first place, upgrade to a fast quadcore - four cores is what you need to transform FSX.

How they gunna know?

Q6600 2.4GHz at 3.7GHz

[Heiko Glatthorn]

Overclocking voids your warranty.

Doesn't matter after doing that...