IncreaseVS
-
Posts
19 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by IncreaseVS
-
-
4 hours ago, Chris.D said:
Just an observation, in one of the movies, after 'being sucked into the ground', and being on the rwy, the outboard wheel trucks remained in the pre touchdown position during roll out.
Maybe something to look at.
Chris.
Hello Chris,
Thanks for your reply! I believe that was during the test at which I tried a higher approach speed at Mr. Sawatzky's request (150KT); the picture depict's the "nose wheel" doing a 'wheelie' partially for comedy
but to test the high approach speed. In reality I would have used flaps 5-10 at the CGW I was running. You can see at about 2:19 of that video the bogies actually do engage the ground before the aircraft starts rising again.
---
4 hours ago, carlosqr said:The ambience in your video looks amazing (the settings)
That weird issue causes the impression like if there was a part missing in the scenery doesn't it? The plane comes and when reaches this gap next part jumps in to fit
strange indeed
Be patient they might be checking all possibilities
Cheers
carlos
Hello Carlos,
Thanks! I use Environment Force and I love it when it doesn't bug out (it's pretty unstable right now).
Yes, I received a response from PMDG they actually recognized the thread (PMDG.com) and sent an internal e-mail prior to my ticket submission; they will keep the thread updated.
Also, I tried "landing" the 747 in a non-problem area and the fuselage 'slid' (to P3D's capabilities) as I would have expected. The gear did not automagically extend after sliding
Regards,
-
1
-
-
Hello,
This is not specific to anything but perhaps someone will have any idea regarding this. Here is a video I made of a "landing gear retracted", landing. X-Posted from PMDG thread.
After I made that video I figured the "actual gear" didn't fail thus maybe that's why the plane was floating. So, I failed Hydraulic Systems 1 and 4 including the Aux (DEM) pumps and the same result happened, the gear even dropped when I slammed into the ground!
Now in pure speculation, perhaps this may be incorporated into the flight model's calculations; thus affecting...something?
Regards, -
19 minutes ago, carlosqr said:
Hi
As you, Flightbeam refers to NorCal too
Maybe this has something to deal with the issue?..
Might worth checking
Cheers
carlos
Hello,
Thanks for pointing this out. Perhaps this is the file that makes the effect when Orbx Norcal is disabled... You may have more knowledge by simply having so much experience on the forums; do you know what the extension of the file that it is we are looking for?
Thank You,
Regards
-
2 hours ago, Holger Sandmann said:
Hi guys,
very weird, I've never seen a report of this before. The thing is that landscape components, like mesh or flattens, are passive meaning they can't reach up and grab an airplane out of the sky. Thus, I'd think that it must have something to do with the coding of the aircraft, in particular what ground data it reads (and when) while close to the ground. As far as I know a lot of the flight modelling with these complex aircraft is computed externally and thus they (intentionally) behave differently from aircraft relying on the default flight model.
Have you shown the video to the respective developers? Maybe they can elaborate how their aircraft determine their position in the final moments prior to touchdown and how a sudden change in ground elevation can confuse the aircraft's flight model; perhaps something related to computing ground effect? (i.e., in this case the effective height of the air column underneath the aircraft suddenly decreases by 12ft, which could make a big difference in the calculations).
The default altitude for KSFO is 13ft (3.96m). With NCA we change this to 3.69m = 12.1ft, not because we wanted to but because, for whatever reason, Flightbeam's KSFO team had done so and many NCA customers wanted the two products to be compatible. However, the difference is less than a foot, much less than the drop experienced by your plane, so I don't think this really is a factor. Moreover, Tristan has stated that the issue occurs with both default scenery and NCA meaning default and altered airport elevation.
Given that reducing the mesh resolution setting makes a difference it seems to me that the critical factor is the slope of the step, which is controlled by the adjacent flattens (ocean water and airport ground, respectively) and the spacing of mesh points as set by the mesh resolution slider. Does the issue still occur if just the NCA mesh entry is deactivated? If not perhaps the successful test with just Global Vector also was without an added terrain mesh file (the default mesh is coarser meaning less steep slopes).
Either way, unless we know what actually triggers the change in the aircraft's flight model it wouldn't make much sense to attempt to make any adjustment to NCA files.
You'll also need to deactivate ADE_FTX_NCA_KSFO_elevation_adjustment.BGL in scenery\world\scenery as it enforces the NCA elevation change.
Cheers, Holger
Hello Mr. Sandmann,
I wanted to thank you for you explanation of how different terrain components work together. I believe this is the furthest the P3D community has gotten to solving this issue; or at the very least providing an explanation to its occurrence.
I'll spare you the video but I just flew the KSFO 28R approach with the, same products, Orbx Manual settings and solely having disabled FTX NCA mesh; the same issue occurs.
---
14 minutes ago, carlosqr said:Hi
I tested Queenstown again with a 727 and when about to land it was sucked down yet, so it is not PMDG I guess. Could there be yet issues with LM?
Is like if the terrain was higher than what it looks, so the plane suddenly "feels it" and "falls" on the ground. I actually saw a lot of houses floating in all this area:
I only use Holgermesh for this area as per Nick's recommendation to solve issues in NZ when I was using the free mesh. I'd like to uninstall and reinstall Queenstown just to discard.
I also tested KSFO with the same 727 but in this case I didn't suffer the suck down. Not sure is Flightbeam scenery affects the result.
I hope this is useful somehow and can be explained.
Cheers
Carlos
Thanks, everything helps when solving this issue... That is so weird! Just like even though I have a cliff at 5M terrain mesh at KSFO but the glitch doesn't happen when NorCal is disabled....
---
TO ALL: Here is a PMDG thread soliciting a similar developer type response in-regards to custom flight models in general and how they work.
Please comment
! Many of us are dying to get to the bottom of this occurrence.
---
Thank You!!
-
14 minutes ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Thanks Tristan
Like I say, I have not been able to replicate this issue, and this is the first I have ever heard of it. If it was an Orbx only product issue I am sure we would have had many support posts about it by now ...
I am completely out of ideas and suggestions at this time.
Thanks for trying to troubleshoot with me...
Perhaps an we could ask an Orbx developer with knowledge of how elevation data works to chime in? I am confused beyond my means with this issue.
If I disable Orbx NorCal, is there a way you know off the top of your head to fix the grass on the runway?
Regards,
-
1 hour ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
I have the same grass on the runway issue when I disable my norcal so that has nothing to do with anything, but I do not have the same water waves going vertical as you.
If you feel that norcal is the issue then maybe do a full uninstall and reinstall of it. I think it is a P3D issue.
Also, please do a search in your entire sim folder for "KSFO.bgl" and post the results
Hello,
I'll spare you the video. I just finished the fresh uninstall/reinstall of Orb-X NorCal with the manual compliant settings. It's the same issue, PMDG 747 sucked into the ground on final on the beam.
Now, if you fly the approach with 1/4 PAPIs, you won't get sucked into the ground.
I'll try disabling the BGL file for KSFO which has "elevation adjustment in it" and let you know.Disabling Elevation Correction BGL file for KSFO had no effect.
Regards
---
Recap
- Running the game at 19M terrain resolution with Base, Vector, Open LC NA, and NorCal enabled will prevent the runway issue. In my opinion, I do not consider this a fix, rather a compromise. As a result surrounding elevation data will be less accurate than proposed in the Orbx Norcal Manual.
- Disabling Orbx NorCal. This fixes the elevation glitch entirely. Grass on runway/no NorCal.
Have Tried:
- Uninstall/Reinstall Orbx NorCal, no effect.
- Verify all Orbx addon files, no effect.
- Delete P3D ProgramData folder, no effect.
---
Awaiting further trouble shooting...
-
4 minutes ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
I have the same grass on the runway issue when I disable my norcal so that has nothing to do with anything, but I do not have the same water waves going vertical as you.
If you feel that norcal is the issue then maybe do a full uninstall and reinstall of it. I think it is a P3D issue.
Also, please do a search in your entire sim folder for "KSFO.bgl" and post the results
Hello,
Here are all the associated "KSFO.bgl" files. I'll go ahead and do the full uninstall and reinstall in the mean time.
Thank You,
Regards
ABP_KSFO.bgl FTX_NCA_objects_KSFO_PLC.bgl ADEX_FTX_NCA_KSFO_San_Francisco_Intl.BGL ADEX_FTX_NCA_KSFO_San_Francisco_Intl_CVX.bgl ADE_FTX_NCA_KSFO_elevation_adjustment.BGL
-
37 minutes ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Sorry, I have no experience with any of the Env products, but something is clearly affecting the mesh, I can see the invisible remnants around the seawall starting at 4:42 of your with 19m video.
Hello Mr. Sawatzky,
Here is a video with NorCal disabled. Thus my original theory of Orbx NorCal being the confliction... No issues.
Apologies (This video is not with chaseplane disabled) only after I made it, I refreshed the page and saw your comment!
As stated in the video, these are the settings as compliant with Orbx Open LC NA. With 5 meter terrain resolution and Orbx NorCal disabled. I do not have the landing issue. Is the grass issue a marker for perhaps the real issue?
Thank You,
Regards
-
5 minutes ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Do you have any AI traffic addons?
Now that you mention it, my seawall set at 5m looks like yours at 19m.
Negative on the beta norcal, mine is the same as everyone else's.
Here are a couple shots of me hand flying my ifly 747, Its easier for me to do quick tests with than my PMDG 747.
Hello,
Yes, your seawall looks appropriate to the actual terrain even when set to 5 meters. I do not have any AI-Traffic Add-ons. Thank you for testing it! Here is my complete add-on list:
- EnvTex
- EnvShade
- ASP4
- ASCA
- EnvForce by Rex
- PMDG 747
- Chaseplane
- FSUIPC
- Orbx Products (Base, Vector, lc NA, NorCal
Regards,
-
1 hour ago, IncreaseVS said:
Haha, wilco! I'll make a video for comedy.
Perhaps I'll do a nose down pitch and my V2 speed for approach!!!
I'll put out the speed-brakes on short final, make sure auto-throttle is screwing around at 80% N1 and I'll know I'm doing it right if I have the master caution going off. Touch the nose wheel to unlock the reversers and do a reverse flare while I'm at it!
Video incoming...
1 hour ago, Doug Sawatzky said:Just for laughs, maybe try the touchdown speed at 140-150kts.
Hello,
Here is the video:
The first portion of the video documents is aligned with the Orbx manual's settings and was performed after deleting the Programs Data P3D file. As expected, the plane was sucked into the ground and did a wheelie due to the higher landing speed. I should have done a flaps 5-10 landing for "legitimate" purposes, but none the less, it was for comedy.
The second portion of the video documents the terrain mesh resolution set to 19M, disobeying the Orbx manual, creating a seawall that is not as sharp; thus the landing issue not occurring. However, this sacrifices a major portion of the Orbx Norcal add-on, the terrain data, to fix this issue. In my opinion, I do not consider this a fix, but more as a compromise.
I am curious to why your 747 did not get sucked into the ground when you tested it, was your sea-wall akin to my second test with 19M terrain resolution? Were you using a Beta NorCal?
Regards,
-
17 minutes ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Just for laughs, maybe try the touchdown speed at 140-150kts.
Haha, wilco! I'll make a video for comedy.
Perhaps I'll do a nose down pitch and my V2 speed for approach!!!
I'll put out the speed-brakes on short final, make sure auto-throttle is screwing around at 80% N1 and I'll know I'm doing it right if I have the master caution going off. Touch the nose wheel to unlock the reversers and do a reverse flare while I'm at it!
Video incoming...
-
7 hours ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Sorry, after the testing for this I carried on and installed many more items, so my scenery.cfg will do you no good.
If I were you I would delete the entire C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder and restart the sim, it will then rebuild the folder giving you a new scenery and terrain.cfg. Then shut down the sim, open FTXC3 for a few moments to allow it to add and activate your Orbx products and retry.
Hello,
Unfortunately, I just did so and flew the approach to no avail. Any other trouble shooting steps I can try?
Regards,
-
3 hours ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Hi
Yes, I had no issues with my PMDG 747 and P3Dv4.4....And I just happened to do a complete clean reinstall of v4.5 and installed the exact combination of products that you have and tested again with my PMDG 747, and no issues while flying the KSFO ILS 28R.
So maybe that is what you need to do, but I would start by doing a "Verify Files" from within FTXC3 of your Orbx products.
Hello,
I just verified all my installed Orbx products and flew the approach, unfortunately, it still occurs. Since we have the same setup, could you share your Scenery Config? I'll load it up and see what it happens. I'd hate to scrub my computer of P3D and reinstall it.
3 hours ago, tom said:What was the fuel load on board the 747 ? I had a similar experience early on in my simming career when I tried to land a 747 with way too much fuel on board.
Just a thought .... ignore at your pleasure.
Hello,
The plane I flew in the video had 5000KG of fuel and 0 weight. Landing speed was 121-K
Regards,
-
3 hours ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Hi
Have you set your mesh resolution to 5m as Nick suggested above?
I am not able to replicate this, so I also doubt it is an Orbx product issue.
Hello,
I believe this thread was wrongly marked as answered, this is still an issue.
Regards,
-
3 hours ago, Doug Sawatzky said:
Hi
Have you set your mesh resolution to 5m as Nick suggested above?
I am not able to replicate this, so I also doubt it is an Orbx product issue.
Hello,
Thanks for your reply! As shown in the video (00:20), I have copied the settings from Orbx's manual directly over to the video.
Also, have you tried using an aircraft larger than a 737 and follow the beam? I do not have any other products other than Orbx; this is all covered in the video.
Regards,
-
On 5/12/2019 at 8:46 AM, Nick Cooper said:
Hello,
I would suggest that you restore all your scenery library entries to their intended order and
then turn down your mesh resolution to the recommended 5m.
Your airport will then look as the Orbx developers intended and not like whatever version
of the airport that is in your borrowed screen shot.
Hello,
It's been approximately 48 hours, is there a fix for this issue?
Thank You!
-
Hello All,
Thank you for your replies! I have followed all of your recommendations and created a video of the problem where I review my settings, library, and fly the approach. Attached you will find the scenery.cfg.
Turn down your volume!!
Thank You!
Add: I saved the scenery settings via FTX Central and ran the migration tool, that's the config I ran in-game.
-
Hello All,I've recently narrowed this down to a confliction between my Orbx Products.Owned Orbx Products
- Orbx Global base
- Orbx Vectors
- Orbx NA OpenLC
- Orbx NorCAl
Orbx Store Order Numbers: 5cd2520b68335 | 5ccfa5ebcf56c
----*****I do not have any other scenery products installed other than Orbx****I'm sure this has happened to some of you with high mesh resolution settings. When a user flies over a runway with a "cliff" or sharp terrain changes on final, and at or slightly below the glide slope with a "heavy aircraft"; P3D will suck the aircraft in the ground.Here are various examples of what happens to my aircraft when I fly over a sharp terrain change (1m Mesh Resolution) on final:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plWAfAxsXY&feature=youtu.be&t=1808 (30:08) if the link does not take you there. Made by a different user having a similar problem.More specifically, I first experienced it when on a KSFO RW28R final in the PMDG 747-8. Here are some detailed pictures of problematic areas (from a different user in a P3D bug report thread).
Things I've Tried- Vector Terrain Data Correction. KSFO is not listed.
- Verified all Orbx scenery files.
- Uninstalling and reinstalling Orbx Norcal
-
Disabling Orbx NorCal. This completely fixes the landing problem, but I'd want to ideally keep the scenery Plus this causes for grass to appear on the runways.
- After I completely disabled Orbx NorCal, I re-enabled it to attempt to adjust the scenery load priority to have the "Mesh" component of NorCal be pushed all the way at the bottom. Although this fixed the grass on the runway, the elevation data confliction problem made a nasty reappearance.
- After a little more digging I instead moved the "CVX" component of NorCal to all the way at the bottom, which then fixed the elevation confliction, however thus by doing so "sinking" the textures below/ontop of the runway causing a nasty flickering and splotchy grassy runway.
I am at a loss at to what to try next. Does anyone have a solution? It appears that buying FSG Pilot's mesh might be an expensive one... but am willing if I can get someone to confirm this as a fix.
Thanks!
but to test the high approach speed. In reality I would have used flaps 5-10 at the CGW I was running. You can see at about 2:19 of that video the bogies actually do engage the ground before the aircraft starts rising again.
Terrain Elevation Discrepancies | Landing Glitches | Orbx Addon Conflictions (KSFO)
in PREPAR3D® V4.x Support Forum
Posted · Edited by IncreaseVS
Hello,
Yes, I recall that; It is likely that since you didn't experience the glitch the plane did not float as the gear extended after-or at all, correct? You are using Flightbeam's KSFO aswell? Perhaps a test could be done on your end to verify if you disable Flightbeam's KSFO; in addition to a no gear landing, that your plane "levitates"?
I do not own Flightbeam's KSFO but perhaps the plane floating and the gear extending after has something to do with a confliction in some unknown variable...
Thank You!
Regards,