ACTIVE Blue water where land should be, and odd terrain where once it was fine

[peterjc]

I hope that this may help someone (and the team) find the cause (sorry that there's a bit below). ...

 

Water appeared where land should be (Jersey CI and then elsewhere) just after using FTX Central to switch between region and Global, and odd patches of scenery were misplaced (Schipol and then elsewhere).  Autogen of houses and trees was also evident (Honolulu and elsewhere).  These problems were then discovered to be in regions and generally outside too.  The timing was after having installed Global Base, Vector and EuropeLC and some regions, and it didn't seem to matter if you'd brought everything up to date by installing the patches or not quite done so yet.  It's hard to correct...

 

What I find (all is now ok) - two free Orbx regions seem to coexist imperfectly with Orbx purchased scenery and seem (based on evidence) to generate the problem - I used process-of-elimination (which you can check, below) to try to verify things and assist with care/accuracy - the aim of course is to help people like the Orbx team with product improvements by isolating as much as possible exactly which two installs do seem to trigger the mismatched-terrain and water issue, and my motive as much as helping the Orbx team (before any change can be rolled to all servers) was to use this forum if you'll allow me to, to help other customers avoid an installation pitfall (in the middle of many installs) wrecking scenery and encountering the same very-hard-to-correct misplaced terrain problems.  Please correct me where there are better ways of doing things.  Everything written below is to expose openly what I tried, what seemed to work, etc, with the intention of helping you to see if I've slipped up, or if this well-intentioned assertion (and the narrowed down cause(s) are correct..

 

When mismatched terrain and misplaced water arose here's what I had to do to try to prove the cause and fix things... Hunting here and externally for advice, external forums and a post by someone suggested the free Orbx Iceland demo caused this trouble.  I had installed Iceland and Tasmania (which confirmed Orbx's products can look stunning) and I got used to one region without trouble, tried Yosemite too, and then bought worldwide scenery like Global Base and more regions.  I noted that the mix of free software of Tasmania, Iceland, Launceton etc and one region of Orbx scenery (ie without Global Base etc) had coexisted perfectly well  until around the time Global Base, Vector, EuropeLC and other regions went on, and FTX central was used to switch between these.  When this trouble emerged, the settings scenery library sync button in FTX Central 2 didn't help clear the problem but it did report that all was ok.  Uninstalling Iceland got me deeper into trouble - it unloaded just about all buttons on FTX despite all other files being present.  So my attempt to just remove Iceland (being new to Orbx) precipitated a time-costly reinstall of pretty much everything, inadvertantly in order to get back FTX central functionality and the FTX central buttons needed to use everything.  Reinstalling a region and thus FTX central didn't reinstate the other regions..Nor did the patches.

 

No matter.  Orbx scenery when ok is actually impressive despite hitting this problem.  So in the hope of finding the issue I de-installed (pulling out Orbx files in FSX directories and scratching a few clearly Orbx config blocks) and having then to repair FSX, and then reinstalling it all, all of which was very very lengthy to do (many Gbs of installs to click and wait and click and wait and click your way through), But it did clear the symptoms, once the FSX empty cache on exit checkbox was ticked (and after having to reinstall SP2 for FSX to start up again with only area 003 Vector AEC reported and that scenery library being mandatory so the message being hard to clear).  After Global Base, Vector, EuropeLC and regions were reinstalled and looked ok I backed up folders and put other purchased regions and freeware like the airports and Yosemite through installation again, watching as I went.  All looked entirely good in FSX as I checked progress.  But  eventually, near the end, putting (Orbx) free Tasmania and Launceston on suddenly caused those same sorts of mismatched terrain issues to pop up afresh.  I was aware at Honolulu after putting the US free airports on, but then found the problems again in regions like Schipol and elsewhere.  It was hard to guess the installation order and exact Orbx product causing this, given I'd no proof it was say just one installation only, not something more complex, but if free Iceland was reported as being the issue by someone (and not this time installed), possibly free Tasmania too could generate this scenery mismatch.  So I tested my hunch.

 

After deinstalling Orbx resignedly as fully as I decently could again, repairing FSX differently til clean looking apart from the same seemingly unaddressable Vector AEC nag, and then reinstating Orbx, Global Base, Vector and EuropeLC were apparently fine once again.  So I added all the other scenery by reinstallation, step-by-step, spot-checking as I went, even Gatwick V3 from another supplier went on without causing trouble. (Actually though, it had been pure Orbx scenery when the problems initially appeared).  This time of gradually working through and re-installing everything I left Launceston and Tasmania till very last. Then because of the hunch about free Tasmania, based on that forum post about free Iceland, I carefully this time made sure I did not install either Iceland or Tasmania.  

 

All was fine.  Doing all the other installs eveyrthing had looke healthy.  So I took the risk of adding Launceston at the end (on the basis of an airport being a bit less likely to compromise entire regions).  And then the patches of course.  All stayed fine.

 

So it does seem that avoiding installing the 2 free demos of Tasmania and Iceland alone, the terrain problems have not re-emerged.  All is looking stable.  I'll obviously let you know if I find I'm wrong.  But the prior attempt more or less diagnosed where the terrain issues popped up (it had to be only Tasmania or free Eu+US airports),   It all pointed to Tasmania due to wider impact.  And (if the other person is right and they clearly saw the same symptoms) the problem is fixed by eliminating Iceland too.  There was no indication the other person had Tasmania installed, Yet I appreciated that they saw the same symptoms and seemed to identify Iceland in their circumstances, and that was very helpful and led to me guessing correctly about Tasmania too. It seems from what I saw that Tasmania does definitely generate Orbx product coexistence trouble if the airports (now installed and not causing trouble) are fine..  So (mismatched terrain and water in the wrong spots) when neither of these two free areas of Iceland and Tasmania installed) seems nearly conclusively indicated. I find now that, third (or more) time around, all is good without these two areas installed, and I have switched FTX central repeatedly and spot tested many locations, in the hope that would trigger a problem if any remained, but all looks healthy.

 

Please correct me, Orbx team, if you think I'm wrong.  You have access to internals and insights that I don't.  However the process-of-elimination seems fairly clear, if you follow me, and if I'm right.

 

My guess is that Tasmania and Iceland free demos do seem capable of causing hard to reverse trouble, (files or config references overwritten or deleted maybe?) ie errors coexisting with other Orbx products, and generate the symptoms of water on land in the wrong places and mismatched terrain fragments all over the place (and autogen issues),

 

My belief (when trying to help you determine exactly when this emerges and when it doesn't), is that this seems to happen once using Global Base, Vector, EuropeLC, because I found the trouble only after they were installed with other Orbx products.  But it does appear that these water and mismatched terrain issues may not arise (here I'm guessing based on evidence) if only installing specific regions with Tasmania and Iceland (ie because I'd had a month or so with one and without problems).  I don't know if the order of installation affects things, but I think not - during my first encounter of pure Orbx mismatched scenery these two areas had been installed first, and during my second round of heavy installations, Tasmania had apparently generated trouble when loaded (without Iceland) almost as the last step.  The clincher for me was that no indications of trouble arose with all the other regions, airports and the Gatwick third party piece of scenery, ie third time around, and when Tasmania (and Iceland) were not loaded,

 

The other take-away which may significantly help beleagured fellow purchasers/downloaders and water-and-terrain-ravaged 50gb fellow enthusiasts of Orbx and frustrated reinstallers(!) -if you allow this paragraph to stand -, is that a temporary xcopy backup and restore worked (or certainly appears to have).  I'd never normally recommend copying aside application folders with binary files in the hope they'll serve to recover.  I'm no Windows or Orbx specialist to recommend doing anything like this, and I feared damage to dll registration and I dared not hack the registry, but equally I found that each repair of FSX and reinstall if you don't do so can cost a really significant unnecessary,frustating and laborious number of hours (6-10?) each time you struggle with misplaced terrain, guessing what to do, checking .cfg contents, word-searching, or struggling through the deinstallation and reinstalls, and which (if coexistence issues didn't exist within the Orbx products and installation processes) wouldn't/shouldn't be necessary.  It's a complex beast I admit.  But 50gb copying back of FSX folders if put in a desperate situation like irreparable scenery... can reinstate pretty much everything including Global Base etc within 1hr.  I cannot express how helpful this was, while frustratedly diagnosing permutations of install-order and using process-of-elimination to try to help you find the installation-package culprit and to try to help you pinpoint the cause of trouble (as best I could for your team and customers) ie getting eventually to the point of  narrowing down the two installations/areas that appear (as best I can read and see from another similarly affected customer) to be the only two that trigger the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jethro VH-JET]

Hi Peter,

 

Wow I'm exhausted, I'm sure there was a simpler answer to your many issues relating to Demo software and the procedure of uninstalling/reinstalling such software, configuration and proper setup of other subsequent Orbx Payware that you have While I can appreciate the detailed post-mortem, I cannot comment on the detailed notes other than to say It does get easier with experience and time. 

 

Then the Orbx team can assist you with any lingering questions you may have, and possibly show you the correct installation procedures and problem solving techniques. A few details about your System, Hardware Simulator & pictures showing the issue are always nice to see...

 

EDIT : Removed some text from my post, just saw your FSS order number under profile. (Apologies I did not look left)

 

It might have been easier to countenance the expert advice from Our fine Orbx team before embarking on your many hours of unsuccessful installations/ toward the final successful satisfying attempt.

There are many opinions to be found elsewhere on the internet about configuring Orbx software for perfect display. But there is only one place to obtain the correct information to a successful outcome (The Orbx forum) and resolve any problems that may arise during or after the installation.

 

Please also have a read through the PDF document Here: http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/91868-version-2-of-the-ftx-definitive-guide-is-now-available/ for a complete overview of Orbx Installation and software Configuration.

 

Sincerely

[shermank]

Correct me if I am wrong, but with FTX global, there is no need for Tasmania and Iceland demos. They are both mini showcases for FTX Global.

Sherm

[peterjc]

Thanks Jeff.  It was good of you to reply.  I regret that a problem was encountered, which the guides could barely be expected to cover perfectly if cause is still in any way hard to nail - it's hardly a front page thing.  Consequently, how to be able to (clean up scenery errors if the FTX central sych. button can't catch every eventuality, or) how to de-install cleanly and quickly and reliably in full, to recover FTX, if there is any better way, without leftovers in FSX folders, the registry etc -- all this might be a good topic for a support forum tip - helpful for those when/if ever needing it - it's partially answered.  You may have a good checklist somewhere.  But I'm happy all is well at last. Back to the positives.  Orbx is certainly a good product despite what occurred - world scenery and regions generate visuals that are stunning sometimes.  Hard not to like.  The guides are very good too - someone has put a lot of care into them and they are well-pitched, clear and very helpful.   

[Jethro VH-JET]

Hi Peter,

 

I'm glad that at last you are in a happy place and able to fly the magical Orbx world.

Like you, I too am stunned by the beauty of Orbx scenery, there's nothing more satisfying than flying in low over a landscape or mountain region and behold the awesomeness of what these scenery developers have re-created, I pinch myself that software development has come this far and am thankful to be able to participate.

 

Just a few points from your above post, from my understanding.

 

FTXCentral v2 Control panel has a small rotating animation or (Sync tool) this afaik is performing a small check on your installed Orbx products Only, to determine if any updates are needed. It will cross reference these product versions from a set of text files amended after each install or SP update and offer as needed the required update, nothing more.

 

Uninstallers and recovery option capabilities are not part of FTXCentral nor are uninstallers offered for most of the product line, Demos like Iceland have an uninstaller installed as part of the package, and PNW has a downloadable uninstaller, Tasmania did not have an uninstaller, the payware AU blue or Australia complete region could go straight over the top. These demos were offered as a taste of a products capabilities, where the viewer could then have a broad enough overview to make an informed purchase. 

 

Advice about uninstalling Orbx products can be found in the FAQ section of the Payware Support forum, Tim Harris & John Venema have put together some guides on the process here: http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/forum/25-faq-answers-to-frequently-asked-questions-here/

 

These are links to the individual types of uninstall depending on the product you are working with:

ALL ORBX    http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/30378-uninstalling-all-orbx-products-a-quick-guide/

NA Regions  http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/30377-uninstalling-na-regions-a-quick-guide/  

Airports         http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/30376-uninstalling-ftx-airports-a-quick-guide/  

PNW Demo  http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/20244-uninstalling-the-ftx-pacific-northwest-demo-use-this-uninstaller-application/

AU Regions  http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/4485-uninstalling-ftx-au-regions-a-quick-guide/  

The Iceland Demo has an uninstaller, you will see this in the PDF guide for Iceland (you can also DL the PDF from Fullterrain.com Iceland demo page).

 

AFAIK the Orbx installers do not place many program elements into the registry that would need to be cleaned up,  apart from product registration, folder tree, and document location, all else is contained in the Users own appdata folder and FSX installation/Orbx folder structure.

 

Automatic uninstallers, where you let the programed/tool decide what needs to go and what stays are inherently unreliable. Because our simulator setups are so varied with software from many other designers, Uninstaller tools can sometimes remove stuff that should have remained. For this reason prudence prevails, where Orbx can guide a user on what to uninstall on a case by case basis, if needs be (there are FAQ's for this reason).

 

Most times it is best to follow the FAQ about uninstalling the various products. Because there are various "Flow" & "Lighting technologies", texture products, traffic files, elevation adjustment files, that need to be removed selectively before a fresh install can be completed successfully.

If in doubt Raise a topic in the relevant Payware Support Forum, provide as much info as needed to describe your issue may have been asked and answered already, or if easy enough will be solved after a few or single post/s, then reinstall as needed.

 

It is always best to set FTXCentral back to Default or FTXGlobal without hybrid checked, when undertaking such uninstall/reinstall proceedures.

 

Enjoy your flights.

[Bert Pieke]

Well, I guess I am now in the same boat... made the mistake of installing Tasmania after Global and several regions...

 

See my Tasmania post.