miloguy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 hi guys, just reading an article on ferry fuel for a Cessna grand caravan 208b wonderig if its true that you could get up to 1800 nm (2071 miles) extra fuel ? thinking still on an eventual world flight (when I get the orbx world pack ) I dont want to swap planes like others do. I know I have been talking about this for a while now , I think it might actually happen some time this year now I have more time for fsx.. thoughts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petfy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Military transport aircraft have fuel bladders in their cargo compartments to increase their ferry range. Would civil authorities allow this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qantas747 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It the real life, yes, ferry fuel compartments can be added. I know someone who flew his Cessna 172 from over in the US to Sydney, of course island hopping along the way. He has a fuel tank fitted in the cabin which took up 3 seats. There certainly aren't any 'ferry fuel' add ons, however a few CFG edits should allow you to carry more fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ferry Fuel could not be simpler in FSX , You take off with say 8 POB and mid flight you transfer that Weight as Fuel to the Tanks as if there was a ferry tank in the Aircraft and you used a transfer pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miloguy Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ferry Fuel could not be simpler in FSX , You take off with say 8 POB and mid flight you transfer that Weight as Fuel to the Tanks as if there was a ferry tank in the Aircraft and you used a transfer pump. so where do i do this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You can add a tank in the aircraft.cfg, not sure about getting 1800nm of range out of her though without going over gross weight. With just a pilot and nothing else you have room for roughly 165 gallons of extra fuel according to the payload manager. You can modify the [fuel] section of the aircraft.cfg like this:Default Carenado C208B:[fuel]LeftMain = -18.0, -4.0, 3.0, 166.5, 1.5RightMain = -18.0, 4.0, 3.0, 166.5, 1.5fuel_type = 2number_of_tank_selectors = 1 electric_pump=1Change it to this:[fuel]//Tanks Position and capacity://Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)LeftMain = -18.0, -4.0, 3.0, 166.5, 1.5RightMain = -18.0, 4.0, 3.0, 166.5, 1.5Center1 = -18.0, 0.0, 0.0, 165.00, 1.5fuel_type = 2number_of_tank_selectors = 1 electric_pump=1I added the first two lines with the double slashes so you could tell what the numbers mean, those two lines don't actually need to be there. That puts an extra 165 gallon tank in the aft cabin just under the wings and right behind the pilot. The "165.00" is the capacity. With just a 180 lb pilot and all tanks full it puts you 4 lbs under gross weight. You can probably get away with being a couple hundred pounds over gross on a ferry flight, if you changed that number to 200 you'd be 231 lbs over gross on takeoff with just a 180 lb pilot on board. They get special one-time ferry permits to do this sort of thing in the real world and I doubt 231 lbs over gross would be unrealistic, they'd require smooth air conditions and no passengers probably. Not sure if that would give you an 1800 nm range but it might if you manage power economically.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 "Milo" in the Payload section prior to flight, and then pause inflight to remove PAX but add their weight as additional fuel. What Jim is proposing might work but I'm not sure due to various Modeling constraints and how that loading etc is applied behavioral wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 What Jim is proposing might work but I'm not sure due to various Modeling constraints and how that loading etc is applied behavioral wise. Can you explain these "modeling constraints"? I added a virtual tank, basically on the the aircraft's lateral centerline and 6" forward of the 2nd row of passenger seats. I'm interested to know "what I did wrong" in your opinion because I tested this in the sim and it simply adds a 3rd tank in the payload editor that you can fill with 165 gallons of fuel. Frankly swapping people for fuel in the payload editor mid-flight seems a bit inelegant to me by comparison, but then maybe you know something I don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.eg Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hi, I think he means that you can affect the flight model (even if it's pretty bad in the the Carenado C208B ). The solution you mentioned isn't bad. Another one is this one: for example, you want to put the weight in the places occuped by the last 2 passengers, thus you find in the aircraft.cfg -> station_name.8=Passenger 9station_name.9=Passenger 10 => you take: station_load.8=0, -23.2, -1.5, 0.0 // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)station_load.9=0, -23.2, 1.5, 0.0 // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet) then the place to put the new gallons are in red (with 2 tanks). Or -23.2, 0.0, 0.0 if you put 1 unique tank and take the option that the 2 places will always be fill with the same amount of fuel (easy because we're only simming...). Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 You moved the tank rearward 5 feet from where I had it, from -18 to -23.2 feet? Why is 5 feet aft better? How does that have a less detrimental effect on the flight model? The empty weight CG is at -18 which is why I put the tank there (that and because that's also where the wing tanks are located). Where you have it you're putting 1150 lbs of fuel 5 feet behind the CG which the Caravan can probably handle, but your going to be tail heavy on takeoff with full fuel and the CG will creep forward slowly as you burn off fuel. BTW if you don't like the Caravan's FDE replace it with Bernt Stolle's version. Go to Carenado's site, click on "Updates", then scroll down till you find "C208 FSX - Optional Patch", install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.eg Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Hi, No misundestanding please: I'm not telling(writing) your solution was bad; please, read for a new time what I've written. It was only an example, with the 2 last sitting places. You could add other places with the previous (7 and 8 ) and so one. I know this FDE and it's installed from long, thank you: I agree with you, the flying model is better with it. My previous answer was my 2 cents. The next time, I'll remain silent if it brings trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 What I meant about the Flight model and the way FSX applies it is there are only wing tanks in the 208 adding a centre tank by editing the ini or cfg file may not work because the model wasn't written for it , It may well work but I choose the tried and proven method of simply transferring the PAX weight. Yes Jim the Centre tank should be about the same fore/aft location as the CG if not slightly forward, BUT W&B can be tuned by adding cargo weight to front or rear belly compartments as well, remembering that in real life the C208 is trimed rearward as the fuel load is burned off anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miloguy Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 in the cargo version the 208 only has one passenger seat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I've been a licensed aircraft mechanic since 1985 and a private pilot since 1986 so weight and balance is not something new to me. The first time I added a virtual ferry tank to a flight simulator aircraft was in 2005 for a flight from the mainland to Honolulu in an ATR-42. I'm not sure where the assumption comes from that I have not done my homework on this but that seems to be the case. I replied because "ferry fuel" in the title piqued my interest and having experience with simulating this in the past I simply shared how I'd done it. At any rate, I will certainly stay out of these types of threads in the future. Have a great day gents. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 At any rate, I will certainly stay out of these types of threads in the future. Have a great day gents. Jim Please don't. You make perfect sense. This can be refreshing these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Like you Jim I am also a Pilot. My comments are based on the way FSX interprets load and whether the third tank as you rightfully point out can be added to the Aircraft.cfg but whether the actual fuel is usable by the flight model is another.I certanily wasn't questioning your idea but rather whether the FSX Flight Model in some Aircraft can make use of the edited config file and thus give the extra range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miloguy Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 thanks for every one's help, and thanks Jim, guess I'll have to experiment with several ideas suggested here hope I din't cause too much friction.. milo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miloguy Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 hope I didn't start anything guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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