NOTED RV4 issues

[jpreou]

I've been having a number of issues with CTD after just seconds of starting, on any aircraft. These started after installing the RV4, of which I have had about 5mins flying out of. Not saying this is necessarily the fault of the RV4, but I'm trying to troubleshoot. I have moved the RV4 folders from simobjects\airplanes.

What other folders or files do I need to remove to completely remove the RV4?

Also, are these FSX.CFG lines related to the RV4; they appear to be new;

[Trusted]

<fsx>\Modules\logger.dll

<fsx>\Guages\orbsnd.dll

 

Just trying to completely remove the RV4 to see if it helps; at the moment my FSX is essentially unusable. Oddly, I *really* hope it isn't the RV4 because I have been *so* looking forward to this plane. It does heavily impact my FPS though, especially on the complex AFS screens; I need to learn how to de-clutter that.

 

Quick Question on that: if I de-clutter the EFIS screen does the AFS no longer calculate the de-cluttered data, or still calculate just not display?

 

Cheers

[Jared Charalambous]

Ok so this is very strange but we will get it working. The first question I'd have to ask is apart from the RV4 installation what have you done since, Have you changed any settings? installed anything else?

 

If no then let's start with Logger, Logger is a module we use to save parameters for our physics engine. This is the only piece of this software that could be causing this since it is the only piece that run's independently of loading up the aircraft. The first thing to check is that it was installed correctly. Can you please open your C:\Users\[Your Username]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX folder open the file dll.xml with a text editor and copy it's contents and post it here.

Also with your De-clutter question most of the EFIS is text based and written in XML. This means any text that is hidden is not evaluating it's code. The only script that is running is it's conditional visibility script. If the conditions to display are met then it will begin to evaluate the scripts that it is displaying.

[jpreou]

A few days before I had installed CRM and NRM and the freeware airports, but these had all worked just fine. No settings have been changed. I'm not a tweaker, I leave well alone, especially if it is working. Which it was.

 

I'm not sure it is the RV4, but as the last added piece I want to eliminate it from my enquiries, so to speak!

I opened and checked the DLL.XML content, I see logger at the bottom.

I'd love to post the content here, but it just won't let me! Paste seems to have stopped working for me on the forums some time ago (yes, I have orbxsystems in compatibility mode).

Instead you can find the file at www.preou.com/fsx/dll.xml and the fsx.CFG (case-sensitive) in the same location.

 

Thanks for answering the display question: when I get this sorted I'll read the book of words and de-clutter my EFIS screen. Otherwise though, great job of the -4 and I really hope it is not the cause of this issue and I can get back into it. Otherwise I guess I might be going to P3Dv2 sooner than I planned!

 

EDIT: and oh yes, while I have your attention, don't forget to do a Zenith CH650B next: I'm thinking of building one of those in a few years

[jpreou]

Further very quick testing tonight, limited in time.

Set Disabled = True for the LoggerX in the dll.xml file.

Loaded my default flight with the BayTower RV7 (which has been failing with the CTD issue). Flew fine for a few minutes; certainly long enough for the CTD to occur.

Reset Disabled = False, reloaded FSX and re-trusted the DLL when requested.

Loaded the RV7 default, flew fine.

Replaced the RV4 airplane folder and files from the temp folder where I had put them back into the simobjects\airplanes folder.

Checked fsx.CFG and uncommented the loggerx trsuted file entry (actually, that was already there; a new one had been added).

Also uncommented the orbxsnd trusted file entry as I think the RV4  uses it.

Loaded the RV7 default flight, flew fine.

Mid-flight, changed to the RV4 - more or less immediate CTD after clicking ok before the flight screen had re-appeared.

FSX re-started. Loaded RV7 default flight. Lasted 30s - 40s before CTD.

Left it there for this evening.

Time to sleep on it.

[Jared Charalambous]

This is a strange one Jeff. HP DV7-7008tx is a few generations ahead of my dev laptop which is running the RV4 superbly. What OS is it running? Clearly the problem is with Logger compatibility. This is an unlikely idea but can you please open your Fsx\Modules folder, right click the LoggerX.dll and select properties. In the security tab make sure all the permissions are set to allow. If not you can change them by pressing the edit button and checking the boxes for allow.

 

If this doesn't work there is always the possibility of a conflict with another module. The only module I see you have installed that I do not is the F15 weapons manager. Can you please try disabling it the same way you did logger temporarily?

[jpreou]

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit

I have FSX installed in the default location.

I am an Administrator on the machine, though I have UAC enabled at default setting 3 "Notify only when a program tries to make changes"

My startup process is as follows (although when I did my testing last night I didn't do that: I fired up FSX normally)

• Shut down Trend AV
  
• Stop and kill a whole heap of processes and services using a batch file
  
• Start REX as Administrator
  
• Start TrackIR as Administrator
  
• Click the 'Fly Now' button in REX to start FSX
  

If necessary I would fire up AirTraffic or Plan-G before clicking "Fly Now" but I only do that occasionally and haven't at all while I've been encountering this issue.

I've been running this way for as long as I have had this laptop with no issues.

Where necessary I always start programs as Administrator (some don't need it).

I have always installed FSX and any FSX-related add-ons as Administrator.

 

LoggerX.dll has Administrators - Full Control / Users - Read & Execute / SYSTEM - Full Control.

All are inherited from the parent folder. In that same folder I have the two accusim / accufeel DLLs and also a file called "Meggit2100.MCRO". No idea what that is.

 

With last night's testing the only thing I did which perhaps I should have is enabled the ORBXSND at the same time; I will re-test with LoggerX just to re-validate without that extra variable.

Then I will re-test with the F-15 weapons manager disabled, as you suggest.

Finally, I don't feel it is necessary since I run as Administrator with Full Control, but just in case I will edit the permissions on the LoggerX file and try again.

I'll post the results of these tests back here, but it won't be until tonight: busy little boy today!

 

Cheers Jared.

[jpreou]

Ok, so this took a couple of hours, and I have my own thoughts, but don't want to pre-empt your conclusions as the developer.

Haven't resolved the 'unable to paste' into a post window, so the results of my testing can be found here...

 

www.preou.com/fsx/FSXtest01.txt

 

Let me know your thoughts. Any other specific testing you'd like me to do for you I'm happy to oblige.

 

Cheers

[Jared Charalambous]

Ok seems unlikely because the CTDs are happening at other times but please dissable the saitek hardware for now. I've always been taught if CTD's are occouring input periferals are the first place to look. A deffinate possibility is the way the the starter switch is programed is conflicting with the hardware switch. eg. animation code is telling the simulator that the switch should remain off at the same time as the input periferal is telling it to go to start.

 

If with everything re-enabled except the saitek works fine then reenable the saitek and re- map each switch one at a time. checking each time so we can find the culprit. Then i can review the software code for what might be causing it.

[jpreou]

Hmmm, that will be tricky. I can unplug the switch panel (the one causing the issue), but the Saitek software itself controls the switches; there is nothing in FSX that gets configured; it just works. Will try to tackle this tomorrow, but I'm on kids duty while the Wife is out and about, so it may not be until the evening. Will report back here. Cheers.

[Jared Charalambous]

Ok well start by unplugging. There are a few reasons it could be conflicting. Specifically that the electrical system in the RV has to bypass switch positions. Doesn't explain the other aircraft being effected but I'd like to eliminate the hardware.

[jpreou]

Interestingly I did get a chance on the sim last night, and while I didn't test (I'd had enough of that; just wanted to have fun) I did manage a half hour tooling around in the RV4 in NZ without a CTD. I swapped immediately to the -4 as soon as FSX loaded, not fist starting with the -7. It's odd, but it is almost like their is an incompatibility with LoggerX and the Saitek that is triggered by the RV-7. Once triggered, the issue then persists to affect other aircraft. If I avoid the RV7, or the Saitek switch panel, I don't think the issue occurs; very strange. I'll test a little later on without the Saitak plugged in and let you know. I'll try to get it done today as I am away for three days from tomorrow morning.

Cheers

[jpreou]

Ok, quick and dirty test:

Un-plug the Saitek switch panel. Start FSX. Load the default RV7 flight. All ok with my normal startup procedure using the virtual cockpit instead of the Saitek for Battery, Alternator, Avionics, fuel pump and engine start (ignition switch).

Close FSX.

Plug-in the Saitek switch panel.

Same again, this time using the Saitek; immediate CTD on ignition START, as before.

[Jared Charalambous]

Make sure your driver is deffinately up to date then the next step is to un map the keys on the saitek. You should be able to do that in the fsx controller menu. If it works ok with the saitek plugged in but not mapped then it's Likley a software conflict with the way the saitek works. If this is the case I'll look at picking one up and testing for the first patch. Anyone else with the same hardware would be helpfull here though.

[jpreou]

Hi Jared; not possible I'm afraid. The Saitek switch panel runs via an add-in piece of software and 'just works'. There are no keys mapped in FSX; everything is pre-configured. The switch panel doesn't even appear in the controller list. There is, literally, nothing I can do further short of going to non-Saitek drivers like SPAD, which would mask or hide the problem. Don't really want to go down that road just yet; read too many differing reports on the results of SPAD / FSUIPC and up until this issue I've had everything working just fine.

 

My workaround for now will be to avoid the RV-7, but it isn't a workaround I like. Otherwise, I'll need to decide between the -4 and -7 and I'm not ready to make that decision yet! It is odd that the addition of the LoggerX module with the RV4 has affected the RV7 and anything else I try to fly after that in the same session. Weird. If there is anything else I can do to help then happy to do that; even you want to run any RV4 updates or LoggerX updates through my system while you don't have access to a Saitek switch panel, I'm happy to do so for you; you'd just need to let me know specifically what you would need tested, log files collected, or whatever.

 

On another note: if you don't have one already then I can recommend the Saitek as a good addition to your cockpit; despite this little niggle, I find the various Saitek pieces I have to significantly enhance the overall experience; certainly way better than clicking around a VC. Now, if we can only convince Rob Hickman to bring out a standalone AFS for FSX / P3D?

[Jared Charalambous]

Yeah I wouldn't be happy with that work around. I'll still grab the Saitek switch panel and see if it's fixable. Have you tried a default flight in the RV4 then switch to the RV7? And you did check your Saitek driver is the latest version right?

[gb_ftx]

 

Haven't resolved the 'unable to paste' into a post window, so the results of my testing can be found here...

 

I have the same problem.

Looks like you cannot paste into an empty reply window.

Solution is to type anything in the reply window, then select it and you should then be able to paste what you want.

 

gb.

[jpreou]

Yeah, all Saitek stuff is the latest; well, it was as of a couple of weeks ago and I don't believe Saitek have updated anything recently. Update: yep, just re-downloaded and the file version is the same as I have (4.0.100.1190).

Will do some testing...

[jpreou]

Started FSX. Swapped to the RV4. Flew a circuit and landed. Exited the flight. Selected the RV7. CTD on loading the flight.

Started FSX. Swapped to the RV4. Flew a circuit and landed. CTD ending the flight.

Started FSX. Swapped to the RV4. Took off and got established in the climb. Approx 30 seconds after t/o, used menus to swap in-flight to the RV7. Flew a circuit and landed. Ended the flight.

CTD closing FSX.

 

(PS I'll try that 'paste fix' next time gb, thanks)

 

EDIT: forgot to say; in that last test while flying the RV7 I flicked the Saitek ignition switch to start a couple of times without the immediate CTD that usually causes; perhaps because the engine was already started?

[Jared Charalambous]

Just out of curiosity can you please attach the following file from your root fsx folder? 0.VansRVRecords.txt

[jpreou]

ok, but its just a bunch of numbers!

 

On my website, since I can't attach a file here (I renamed the file to just rv4.txt)

 

http://www.preou.com/fsx/rv4.txt

 

 

 

[Jared Charalambous]

Don't worry those numbers confirm for me that logger is indeed updating that file when it's running so the CTD is not a write access error. That was all I was wondering about.

[KelB]

ok, but its just a bunch of numbers!

 

On my website, since I can't attach a file here (I renamed the file to just rv4.txt)

 

http://www.preou.com/fsx/rv4.txt

 

I just noticed this thread and it interested me since I just bought the RV4. I have had the Satitek Switch Panel for some time and have a large number of aircraft in my collection. Before I installed the SPAD driver I had a lot of instances of CTD using the panel more with some aircraft than others. The most common incidince was  a CTD when setting the rotary switch to the start position. Some aircraft always failed in this way, others were OK and some were intermittent. Since using SPAD most of the problems have gone but the 'Start' problem still occurs. What I have done is used the SPAD driver to reallocate the Start function to Ctrl+E for those aircraft which show the problem. This still allows you to use all the other controls before performing what is actually an autostart.

 

By the way I dont need to make this change for the RV4 it seems to work fine with the standard SPAD settings.

 

Hope this is helpfull.

 

Regards

 

Kelvin

[Jared Charalambous]

Oh that's very helpful, Do you have the bay tower RV7 by any chance?

[KelB]

Oh that's very helpful, Do you have the bay tower RV7 by any chance?

Hi

 

Yes I do - Great plane

 

That is one aircraft that definately needs the Saitek Start switch reprogramming to be Ctrl+E. this plane causes a CTD every time if not.

 

By the way, I notice that more often than not if I exit FSX with your RV4 selected I get a fatal error report and restart. I was closing down anyway at this point so not a great problem but thought I would mention it.

 

Regards

 

Kelvin

[KelB]

Hi again

Just one further point -

I used to have the RV7 as my default aircraft but I found I had all kinds of issues with other aircraft when I did this.

I would definately use a differnt aircraft as the default.

Regards

Kelvin

[jpreou]

That's all great info, thanks Kelvin. It seems to jive with my own observations that the RV-7 being started first is linked to this issue. I never did have the Startup issue before the RV4 though, and it is definitely some interaction with LoggerX. I wonder if you had LoggerX from some other aircraft you have installed, or is this a custom RV4-only file?

[Jared Charalambous]

Nope loggerx is a freeware addon. It's supplied as is. All our testing found it to be extremely stable.

There is an easy way to check though. Logger is a module however if it was previously installed by someone else it's possible there would be duplicate entries in dll.xml

[jpreou]

ahhh, well I have only the one entry. was curious if Kelvin had it before since he saw the issues before the RV4.

Its good we have a workaround ; don't go to START but use CTTRL-E.

Seems like this is not specifically an RV4 issue, though the RV4 has highlighted it for me.

I can live with this, and given LoggerX is not under your control I suspect I will have to. No drama.

I can still enjoy all my a/c, including the fantastic new RV-4, now that I understand the rules of engagement

Any further ideas Jared?

[Jared Charalambous]

Well as I'm not completely convinced it is necessarily a logger issue I will still do some investigation when I get the hardware before I put it in the unfixable basket.

[jpreou]

No worries, if you work anything out, then great, and if not, I have a workaround. All good and I think at this point we can consider this thread closed off. Thanks for working through this Jared, and thanks also to Kelvin for his input.

I love the RV4 and will continue to fly it; I do need to learn that AFS though the 70-something pages of manual scare me; I barely have time to fly, let alone learn how to operate the systems in depth

Thanks for your work on the RV-4 Jared; hope it is a success for you and inspires you do to other aircraft.

Cheers

[Jared Charalambous]

Thanks mate, we appreciate your efforts also

[KelB]

Hi

 

I am glad you have a work around. I think we must be in completely different time zones. I have just got up and found your new posts.

 

I did not have the logger previously i dont believe but there is a lot of content on the internet concerining the start function on the  Saitek Switch Panel causing problems. The SPAD driver seems to be the general solution.

 

By the way if you ever but the fantastice A2A 172 you will definately need the SPAD software to be able to use the Battery and Generator switches.

 

As I said I just reprogramme the start position to give the code Crl+E (only on the ON function not the OFF when you go back to both mags) and you then use the switch as normal with no obvious difference.

 

SPAD and FSUIPC are both free so why not give it a try?

 

Have a great Xmas

 

Regards

 

Kelvin