Hotspot Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Having noticed on this and other forums that it is undesirable for CPU's to operate at temperatures over 70 C, I downloaded a CPU temperature program and found my unclocked E8500 on a stock standard system in FSX running at 83 degrees C. Is it necessary to put a more effective cooler on it, or is this pretty standard? The wisdom among IT buffs around here is that the Intel E series runs quite cool and does not need after market cooling - could there be something wrong with mine? (No - I don't overclock) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Archie Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 That does sound a bit warm mate, my new Asus Silent Knight II CPU Cooler gets my Quad Q9450 down to 37-40 degrees, so 83 sounds a little too high, but I am no expert, I'll defer to others on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahaka Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 That's wayyy too high. I would check if the heatsink/fan is really firmly placed on the CPU. You may also need to add a drop of fresh thermal paste, but be sure to clean the remains of the old one off first. I have a Q9450 overclocked to 3.4Ghz, and while running FSX the maximum core temperatures are around 50-55 degrees C. This is with a more powerful heatsink though. Yours is a dual core, so it should already run cooler than my quad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Meiklejohn Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Here are some considerations for CPU monitoring: What CPU temp monitor program are you using? They can vary a bit in their readings. (I use Core Temp 0.99.3 by Arthur Liberman) Also what motherboard are you using - some can have wildly varying readings as well. Does your CPU monitor report readings from both cores of the E8500 and are they both similar? You can also do a quick reboot and check what the BIOS reading is showing. The room temperature plays a significant role as well. My quad core runs about 5 degrees above room temperature when I run on a 333mhz (default) front side bus. When I push up to a 400mhz front side bus I have seen the temperatures rise a fair bit (esp. with default cooling). On a 4.2ghz overclock I was seeing temperatures around 90C under FSX loads with standard CPU cooler. The machine ran without problems and after FSX shutdown the CPU cores would drop back to about 60-65C. I recently installed a Xigmatek S1283 CPU cooler and it dropped temps by 40C under load - now hits 50C in FSX and on the desktop the temps run 30-40C depending on ambient temps (currently room temp is 25C and CPU sitting on 33-35C). So yes, aftermarket cooling can still be very effective with intel coolers but it depends on a lot of variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffman Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 What batch number have you got? If you check out other forums around the place you will find that others have experienced a similar problem & it turned out that intel did have a batch sneak through with defective monitoring diodes (yes Virginia they are diodes). Not sure if it affected the E8500 though. However I do agree with the others, it sounds to me like you have a defective thermal junction between your CPU and heatsink. I would recommend removing the HSF, cleaning off the paste, reapplying and remounting. I assume you have ensured the Heatsink is not blocked by dust and crap and the fan is good? @ Bazzam, I think your original HSF wasn't properly mounted if a new solution drop load temperature by 40C! (Unless the Xigmatek is a freezer unit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Meiklejohn Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I think your original HSF wasn't properly mounted if a new solution drop load temperature by 40C! G'day Geoffman, original heatsink was mounted correctly (I've been building computer systems for 20 years). The intel heatsink only has a circular copper contact pad that doesn't cover the full CPU top and uses thermal tape. The Xigmatek is a very effective unit with 8mm copper heat pipes connecting directly to the CPU. Very efficient system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice_King Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Depends on the Load the machine the Hardware Temps anywhere between 40C to 80C could be considered to be Normal. It really depends on the Ambient Temp, the Load and other factors. The Airflow through the Case is the single most important thing along with the thermal conductivity and efficiency of the Heat sink. I run 2 120mm Fans drawing Air into the case and 3 pumping it out - why three pumping it out ? you ask simple HOT air is less dense and takes more shifting. If you move the Air in and out of your case you will have a better system and the BIGGER the Case the better too, especially if you are careful to make your Airflow through and then out and NOT recycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ White Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 To add to what Mozz just said, it is important to allow (as much as possible) a clean passage of airflow through the case. So many times i have striped down a PC to find it has a great cooler and heatsink, BUT the passage of air has been completely impeeded by a mass of cables carelessly left cluttering up the internals. Things like molex, SATA and motherboard power, IDE ribons, SATA cables, case front USB link cables etc etc all form a twisted nest of inefficiency when it comes to air passage. I have an antec P182 with about an inch gap between the motherboard plate and the exterior case side, this gap is perfect for storing all cables and wires out of the way, in fact if you look into my case you would be hard pressed to see any cables/wires at all. This ensures the most efficient passage of air from front to back of the case, the fins of a heat sink will only work as intended if air can pass through them in a linear direction, the swirling of air around cables destroys the effective direction of airflow. My Q6600 (3.0Ghz) idles at around 20 degrees, full load @ 28 degrees! Using the Antec P182 case, the Scythe Mugen Infinity CPU heatsink and 5 x 120mm fans, and of course all cables stored out of the way! (computer is in a cool room, so ambient temps are low) Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffman Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Ok, thanks for that Bazz. I'm well aware of the limitations of the Intel stock HSF, like you I've been building systems for over 20 years too (started building with an old altair like system and with microbees). Still a difference of 40C under load from stock air to after market air is still dayum high! I typically see 10~15C max difference ( under load ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ja50n01 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I used to Water cool my CPU, But it sprung a leak, I have to agree with all of the above advice, I run Air cooled now and invested in a Zalman GT1000 Aluminium Case and a really decent CPU Fan, The Airflow is superb, but it's not cheap. I have also used the Antec Gaming cases and they are surperb, Stacks of fans and airflow. Go for a PSU with Rounded Cables if you are unable to tuck away as Russ stated. Also make sure your Fans are running in the correct direction, I once repaired a machine that was getting Hot and all the fans were sucking into the case. Try a decent CPU paste and a nice even layer of paste Thinly. As far as CPU temps or faults go I never look to be honest, I did try overclocking(I know you haven't overclocked) but like yourself got a high reading and went back to stock. I also clean out my case regulary freeing up the fans from dust. Just my $2, I'm no expert but hope it helps Cheers Jas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotspot Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Thanks for all the good gen guys, my temp monitor gives a reading for each core and they are typically within one degree of each other, and my board is a Gigabyte EP45 with no dirt or fluff build up- so I'll try another temp monitor program, get a better cooler, making sure of close contact with the cpu using appropriate paste, check the air for correct fan direction and clear flow due cables. Thanks to all for confirming the need to track this down and a direction to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHosking Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Boot to BIOS - do not use a Motherboard temp program If you are getting these temps consistantly then use the Bios monitor to check the temp after idling the PC for 5 or so minutes. My mate had a similar issue and his was no thermal paste and the heat sink not sitting down correctly. I have a Q6600 and it runs around room temp with the stock core heatsink. If you have the click down heatsink, ensure that the four pins snap into the motherboard successfully. Also ensure that the CPU FAN is correctly connected to the motherboard! Thermal Paste should only cost between 5-10 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ja50n01 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Thanks for all the good gen guys, my temp monitor gives a reading for each core and they are typically within one degree of each other, and my board is a Gigabyte EP45 with no dirt or fluff build up- so I'll try another temp monitor program, get a better cooler, making sure of close contact with the cpu using appropriate paste, check the air for correct fan direction and clear flow due cables. Thanks to all for confirming the need to track this down and a direction to proceed. I used to hate tieing up the cable's etc and keeping every neat, but it works and the fan's (Correct me if im wrong guys), in from the front blowing Across HD, MOBO, GFX CARD and processor fan and then Exhaust the hot air out through the Rear. I always make sure that all rear Exhaust areas have no wires hang down in front of them from Keyboard pSU, USB etc and that the back of the PC is not too close to a wall or Desk too, Hope you get your temps down then you can OC lol Cheers Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotspot Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Boot to BIOS - do not use a Motherboard temp program If you are getting these temps consistantly then use the Bios monitor to check the temp after idling the PC for 5 or so minutes. Booted to BIOS - after taking a few minutes to find the CPU temp it was reading 45 degrees and the system temp was 46 - what is the signifigance of the difference between these Bios generated temperature readings and the 80 odd given by the CPU monitor program? I will still put a better cooler in and check that everything is pasted and locked down OK when I do it, but I'm now puzzled by the big discrepancy in the two temperature sources - any hints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Meiklejohn Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 It is a bit strange hotspot. The software program may be interpreting the value incorrectly or not able to interpret your motherboards output coding correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
}SkOrPn--7 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Strip your case down and do a little cable management and if you can't get cable to go where you want cut holes in the case to make new routing paths like I did circled in green. This will go a long way to giving a nice flow of air unobstructed. Rip your CPU cooler off and re-apply thermal paste the size of a rice rain as that is all that is required. You may ever want to reface the bottom of the CPU cooler so it polished and 100% level for better dispersion of heat. Also cut down or make your own cables to get rid of excess etc so if you can post some images of your case so we can help you out with suggestion on better air flow or ideas to keep things cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainey Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I own a E8400 and have also installed a second one for a friend, both initially with the standard HSF and no overclock (3ghz) my temp readings with coretemp 0.99 were idle: 42 - load: 61. I have since upgraded to a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme heatsink with 2 additional 120mm fans and my system is overclocked to 4ghz with temps at idle: 35 - load: 56. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Meiklejohn Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Very nice Rainey. And a great heatsink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotspot Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Thanks Rainey for the benchmarks - that's where I hope to have mine shortly. }SkOrPn--7 - great pics - I just finished my first case mod by cutting a huge hole and fitting a 180mm fan to another computer, so will be only too happy to try my hand at re routing the cabling when I fit my new cooler to the CPU on this one - (not ordered yet due time constraints) thanks for the advice - will keep you posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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