Can some one help me with my PPL

[lenniegordo]

Hi All.

I'm a student pilot at Ballarat just about to go for my PPL(controlled airspace). 

I went on a practice test flight last week - YBLT - YPEN - YMEN -YMMB - YBLT  most of it went well.

But I completely mucked up YMMB (Moorabbin) totally!, relay dangerous stuff and feeling really bad about it.

Flying out of a country aerodrome in to YMMB makes you feel like a real bumpkin.

Including last week I have only flown into YMMB 3 times, there are so many tracking points that with a tail wind it just goes to fast for me.

I was hopeing some one that knows YMMB well could could help me out and go Tower at YMMB for me

I think that would be just what I need to get my head around the whole situation.

I'm happy to run a server on my pc and give who ever an ip to login to - I have not had much success login into the Orbx server

Any help would be great

[martinc]

Hi Lennie,

            MMM, i can sympathise, i live not far from YMMB and when i have spare time i like to go over there and watch the GA ops. Especially Saturday's and Sunday when its busy and the departures are nose to tail...cant help you with the ATC stuff, but i would say keep persisting with it, do your homework, read ALL the availble info and talk to everyone who flies in and out of there.

One thing i did when i was trying to figure it out was to get a printed copy of the Moorabbin VPG, extracted all the pages with diagrams of the inbound and outbound routes and pinned them up on my wall to make a BIG picture of what it looks like. It helped to be able to see it layed out, rather than a series of pages in the guide.

If i ever get back in the air, i hope to do a lot of work out of YMMB and really knock it on the head.

Another thing to think about, do you have access to an airband scanner or the website for Live ATC ?.

I spend a lot of my spare time listening to the Melbourne/Essendon/Moorabbin tower frequencies just getting my head around how it all works, how the operators deal etc...a good time to listen is on the weekends when there's a few Sp's and PPL's around..its good to get an idea of the common errors people make and how they are dealt with...

Hang in there.

MC

[beevo]

The Visual Pilot Guides are great.

http://www.casa.gov.au/pilots/pilotgde.htm  in case you haven't seen one already. You probably have?

Since you have an ARN you can get a free copy from  "amanda.white@casa.gov.au"  Just send your postal address and tell them which one you need.

Now that I look at it,  see MC's comment makes a lot of sense. I am more familiar with Archerfield which is not as complex. Laying it out across the page breaks may help.

The other odd thing is orientation of the charts  since the guides are set out from your perspective/ direction of travel. This can be a little off-putting when you are just looking through on the ground since north is not at the top!

I once got lost in Rotorua (on the ground at night) as the "tourist map"  I was using while driving had north at the bottom!!!

Be prepared to call melb radar for a vector to a point or assistance before you enter the GAAP or CTAF® They may get you to squark IDENT then will tell you how far you are from wherever etc. It is what they do! Remember "unfamiliar with area/ aerodrome, request vector to academy" even if you call in every week.

Don't be afraid to slow up to 80 knots if you need to and give yourself more time to think ! Better that you arrive slow and expected. Even 90 is better than 110! You can speed up as you get better at it but why paint yourself into a corner by minimising your time to assimilate everything?

Get your head together way before the points  and practice what you will say. And listen in early too so you will hear what directions they are giving others.

"Unfamiliar with Aerodrome" is a phrase to use often! You will get more help as needed. They will cut you more slack.

have your frequencies set ready to flip as required. My fav mistake is to forget to flip and make the "ground" call to "tower". They will soon let you know! They are nice folk.

Go to http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php and load up the link to YMMB atc into "itunes" or whatever you use. You will have to scroll way down the page but its there. This makes great background "music" for your online simming and you can learn a lot as well as adding to the realism. As you hear the calls and replies, visualise where everybody is. Point to it on your chart too.

I have this and  a few others set in my favourite playlists.

Try and relax when you are on the radio too. I know it seems very formal but it just needs to be accurate, concise (because they are busy) and clear. ATC is there to help you as much as anybody. If you are a novice, or nervous or unsure of procedures then you need them more than the others and they will give you the added assistance. AFter you spend a while listening to the atc online, you will realise that not everyone has the slick qantas captain daytime soap-star baritone radio delivery.

My issue with online atc for these aerodromes is the problem of not enough controllers and traffic for it to be accurate to the real world. Not many online guys get much exposure to VFR traffic procedures and or secondary airports as everyone chooses to fly IFR heavies!  Too easy! 

Best of luck

[lenniegordo]

thanks for the info, yes have been studying the VPG, and listening to live ATC.

is it my imagination or the liveATC not live? YMMB seems to have no continuity and is mixed up with 135.7

MY instrutor won't let me slow to 80k unless directed to by ACT - he say that it all need to be very snappy and ATC will expect a c172 to be moving at 100k, he's Normandy not a pushy instructor really very good, he has got me to the stage in just 40h, solo in 5, I just don't feel I had enough heavy traffic time, Ballarat really is a wast land.

I asked him if it would be okay to report 'Unfamiliar with Aerodrome' in the test. His response was that the testing officer would be unhappy about it as I have been in and out of there before - that I should show proficiency. I must admit I disagree with him on this, there is still way to big a chance that I will muck up under pressure, I think reporting 'Unfamiliar with Aerodrome' would show a recognition of my Limitations... I think I'm going to ignore his advice on that - I'm prepared to lose a marks on the test to remain safe!

...thanks for the support!

[Sawbe]

A lot of the inbound points are recognizable in FS, and if your flying in FS I'd recommend getting online VATSIM. Recently I've seen MB TWR on a bit so jump in and have a practice with a VATSIM controller, he may not be perfect, but its alot better then just pretending or using default FSX ATC.

If you do decide to jump online and theres no one there I might even be able to jump on for you No doubt you'd be better then a lot of VATSIM pilots without real world experience 

GAAPs are heaps of fun both in real world and in the sim. Controllers will sometimes seem to have a short fuse, but they are there to serve you so don't be afraid of speaking up. Anyway once you get used to the area and can find your way around better, you'll find the ATC part will come easily. Your instructor should also be approachable, tell him what you think you need help with and get him to 'hold your hand'.

Remember to Aviate then Navigate then Communicate.

[ptgar1]

One word of advice that has already been mentioned here is Speak Up!

The number of times I have flown in and out of MMB and heard a faint whisper, only to be asked to repeat is unbelieveable..

Just keep in your mind to actively listen to MMB TWR well before you enter to help paint a picture of where everyone is!

Im pressuming you will be always enterting from BTO (Brighton Point), so after getting your ATIS (120.9) AND REMEMBERING THE INFORMATION LETTER (ie ALPHA or ECHO), listen in on 123.0 well before BTO for two reasons:

1) Establish a picture in your head of the situation ahead

2) Ensure that there is no other aircraft entering at BTO!

once you call up, proceed to Moorabbin Oval as directed by ATC or they may send you on to a looong downwind if 35L/31L is active.

If 17R/13R is active, then your gonna be told to fly a long base, and although you are on base very quickly, you have a long time to set up for final, and also to spot other aircraft on a tighter circuit..

If 35L/31L is active, then you'll have to enter an diagonal-base - and once again, this extended distance will give you time to establish where everyone else is..

One final note is that, if unsure, get on the blower and just report where you are and what you are doing. If your right? Great, they'll say good on ya. If your not, they'll let you know.

ie So n So is at Moorabbin Oval on a wide base at 1000. Just let em know if you have any doubts..

Hope this helped. If ya have any other questions, or if you are coming from another approach point, let us know n i can help explain it if you want..

And just think how much easier it is than YMEN! For gods sake, you cant even move ON THE GROUND there without permission!

[lenniegordo]

thanks for the info ptgar1 & Sawbe I'll give VATSIM a go.

So far I have come in from Academe, GMH and Brighton Pear. the one I stuffed up was Brighton. Part of the problem might be that I have come in from 3 directions each time, but the real reason, if your interested was.....

I read through the VPG, so when I got the ATIS 35 was in use. So I pictured approaching 35L from long Base like the VPG shows. While I was mucking around with my DI to make sure I was pointing the right way the ATC told me to join downwind, I got him wrong - and joined long dace like it shows you in the VPG. and with a 30k tail wind got blow over the centerline in the confution of it all, my instructor cought me in time and put us in a 90* bank. It sure feels like a dumb ass mistake to make just before your flight test, (what would have happened if he was not there I wonder)

Also my CFI is really a grate guy and is much nicer on me than I am on my self. He a gentile sol.

It would not be to hard for people in the know to know who I'm talking about so I need to be clear - he's the best! And I'm sure people in the Know would agree - or at least that's what people at he pilot shop @ YMMB told me when he was not looking.

I think its just probably just that time when I start making choices of my own, what do I think is best, based on my limited? experience

[ptgar1]

Well on your flight test, if you do indeed get Brighton Pier as the entry (BTO), and it is a northerly as it has been most days, you will be landing on 35L or 31L (very similar circuit)

So as you get to Brighton Pier, perhaps the best option is to literally pick out the point where you will turn from downwind to base (make it wide if you have to) and go straight there. This way, you'll have more time to set up your approach, lose that 500ft of height, and pick out the plane ATC said you are following.

if he tells you to go to Moorabbin Oval, go there, then do the same thing... Gun straight for the corner of the downwind/base.

Have a look on google earth or your VTC.. If you are at Moorabbin Oval, then literally head DIRECT SOUTH until you get over the water, then you know to turn onto base...

Let us know if you have any other questions

[grumman]

I'm a bit surprised your instructor would send you for a test if he had to take control on your last flight. Your general flying must be pretty good.

You didn't say when the test is scheduled, but if you've got the time (and the money) why not drive down to MB and do a few local flights and some circuits with an instructor there? Cheaper than another flight from BLT.

VATPAC organises Virtual VFR Flights that include a GAAP airport usually every second week, on Friday night and repeated Sunday afternoon. There are usually around 10 aircraft and APP and TWR ATC, so it can be quite busy. Details are in the VATPAC forums, which are being moved to another ISP tonight, but try tomorrow on www.vatpac.org

Once you get the hang of it, GAAP airports are actually less daunting than country fields. At least you've got a controller to keep things orderly ;-)

Good luck,

Greg

[lenniegordo]

Your right greg - He told me Lastnight that I need to do YMMB again before I go for the test.

So YMMB on Tuesday Flight test on the week end

I'm trying now to install that VATPAC software but having issues

Cheers Leon