HD 5970

[rohan]

I'm planning to buy or build a new PC very soon.  It's likely to be the last time I do this, so I'm prepared to spend some of my hard-earned money on high performance components including the HD 5970.  However, I have a question that nobody seems to be able (or willing) to answer.  I looked at the AMD website with a view to asking them directly, but they want you to go through so many drop down lists where it's very difficult to find a simple thing like "HD 5970".

Anyway, this card has two GPUs.  Normally to get two GPUs with ATi cards, you have to have two cards and run in Crossfire mode / with Crossfire drivers.  So, does that mean that you are actually running in Crossfire mode if you have an HD 5970 ?  Why is this important ?  Because some applications have problems running under Crossfire, including, I believe, FSX ...

Thanks in advance for any insight,

Ro

[Spirit Flyer_old]

Hi Ro,

Dual gpu cards simply do not work well in FSX including the ATI 5970 or the Nvdia 295. In fact, according to most reports of those who have attempted to use them, performance is even lower that the corresponding single gpu available.

In addition, many knowledgable flight simmers who have tried both company's products do not think ATI cards work as well with as good a quality rendering for FSX as Nvdia cards do. Perhaps you may wish to research long and hard before you pull the trigger on the 5970 for FSX.

You might want to read what these gentlemen have to say on the subject:

Quote

Warning

The Nvidia GeForce GTX 295 and ATI Radeon 5970  has

tested to be a significant performance inhibitor to FSX.  This is

due to their integrated dual GPU design.  Jetline is not offering

these models due to low FSX test results.

Unquote

http://www.jetlinesystems.com/index.html

[rohan]

Stephen,

thanks very much for your input.  I'll infer from those comments that the HD5970 is effectively running in a Crossfire mode, regardless of whether it actually needs the Crossfire driver.

As I've just spent the afternoon pricing components for the new system, I now know that going for the HD5870 will save me around £200 over the 5970 ... perhaps I will go for that i7-980X after all, especially when the i7-990X is released and that price comes down a bit,

thanks again,

Ro

[timmo32]

the best gaming card has to be the evga gtx 480 gaming card mate,good luck in your new rig rebuild ;)and hardware selection.

[Sifor]

If your machine will only be running FSX and no other games then yes, go for an alternative over the 5940.

[Guest AS355F]

In addition, many knowledgable flight simmers who have tried both company's products do not think ATI cards work as well with as good a quality rendering for FSX as Nvdia cards do.

Why are you continuing your rant against ATi cards?

I showed you in another thread how I am getting the same framrates as your test and I'm using a higher resolution than you and a lower clocked cpu. 

Show some proof that ATi cards don't work as well instead of just whining about how bad they are.

[Rossdh]

Show some proof that ATi cards don't work as well instead of just whining about how bad they are.

I have had first hand experience of both the HD5870 and GTX480 in FSX and I have to agree 100% with Spirit. Don't get me wrong, those ATi cards are absolutely superb... just not for FSX. For example When I was using my 5870 in cloud or any other dense weather my FPS was slashed in half, with the 480 I have none of that at all. The 400 IS the card to have for FSX.

[alainneedle1]

This is not related to FSX but that's giving you a good idea about both card.....

[NaveenB]

In one of my builds I have had a 5970, a 5870 2gb, 2 5870s, and now two gtx 480s in SLI.

I can tell you for sure the ATI cards drop frames like crazy in clouds and with dense autogen.  With the ATI cards I had to use one cloud layer and limit the autogen, with the nvidia GTX  cards I can run the REX weather

engine or active sky without worrying about anything.

I don't know why AS355F is so upset, but it's not even a question as to which is better for FSX, I personally have compared the cards head to head to head.

I run SLI because I use a triple-head display at 5040 x 1050 using the surroud function. 

[rohan]

My main objection to the Fermi cards is the heat and noise they generate.  The HD-5870 is just on the borderline for acceptance for noise from my perspective - I'd prefer something quieter, but looking at performance versus noise, it's my choice.  If there is or was an NVidia card with similar performance and noise levels, then I might consider it.

Oh, and I'm not that much "into" hardware where I would even think about adding / changing GPU coolers myself - heck, I'm still not sure whether to build or buy this system,

Ro

[Arismac]

I built my own and am very happy with the results. The 5870 does an excellent job. You can save money, probably quite a lot of money building your own but make sure you know what you are doing before you start. Win7 64 bit is a must.

[Rossdh]

My main objection to the Fermi cards is the heat and noise they generate.  The HD-5870 is just on the borderline for acceptance for noise from my perspective - I'd prefer something quieter, but looking at performance versus noise, it's my choice.  If there is or was an NVidia card with similar performance and noise levels, then I might consider it.

Oh, and I'm not that much "into" hardware where I would even think about adding / changing GPU coolers myself - heck, I'm still not sure whether to build or buy this system,

Ro

I have to admit the heat and noise of the 400 series is the reason why I went for the 5870 in the beginning. Now that I've switched to the 480, I've noticed that all this heat and noise debate, in my eyes, has been blown way out of proportion. As long as your case has a good amount of airflow you will be fine. My 480 hasn't reached 75 degrees C and doesnt even get to that in FSX. The max I've seen when in the sim is 67 but usually 59 if the card is left a stock speeds. As for noise, to be honest it's nowhere as loud as I was expecting.  All in all DO NOT BE WORRIED ABOUT HEAT AND NOISE!

[timmo32]

i agree with a couple of guys about ati cards and drop in frames with cloud coverage,i mayself owned a ati 5870 card and wat a great card it is,but with all the positive feed back with nvida cards in this forum, i went out and brought the new gtx 480,and it is a fantastic card,frames rate hardly change when going though clouds,but i still have the ati card for safe keeping,in case of any future issues,both great gaming cards

[Guest AS355F]

For those of you who have trouble in heavy cloud use Bojotes sm3.0 mod. It's a simple fsx.cfg tweak. There is a flaw in FSX that doesn't enable SM3.0 for ATI.

Your card will no longer suffer those slowdowns.

I run REX2 as well and as I said before, my testing has shown it to be at least equal to Stephens 470/480 in similar scenarios.

I have no problem with 470/480, this has nothing to do with ATI/Nvidia but I do take exception to people repeatedly posting that something is no good without a shred of evidence.

To those here with both cards, run that mod, you will find a big difference. I know what you're talking about, I had the same problem but I did some research and came up with a workaround.

Just like with Nvidia cards if you take the time to do some reading and set them up properly they will reward you.

[GRAPHICS]ALLOW_SHADER_30=1SHADER_CACHE_VERSION=9872431SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED=1693500719TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=4096

There is also a file you need to download so don't make those changes without Googling for Bojotes SM3.0 mod.

EDIT: If I recall correctly Bojote updated it to SM3.1 because 3.0 had some missing textures in certain cases so make sure you have the 3.1 download.

[rohan]

Mac,

I'm still trying to refine my specification, but, at the moment, my preferred supplier doesn't seem to be charging much for putting the system together, compared to what they would charge for selling me the same components anyway.

Rossdh,

appreciate your input - I guess I'm a bit like Hilbert Hagedoorn who's always commenting in his graphics card reviews how anal he is about noise.

timmo32,

also appreciate your input, as you too had an HD-5870 before moving on to a 480.

One of the big problems in this area is trying to sort the prejudice and bias from the real experience when there doesn't seem to be anywhere on the web showing real hard evidence of what each type of card does, either in general or particularly with FSX.  I've seen reviews like the one posted above and read countless others quoting numbers (frame rates) for all sorts of games but none of them even use FSX.  While it's understandable that quoting frame rates from FSX is a whole other can of worms, I'm rather disappointed that there don't seem to be any videos around showing, for example, the difference in behaviour when flying around clouds when using an NVidia card and when using an ATi card.

For the moment, I'll take a look at some reviews of 480 cards and see how they compare with the HD-5780 reviews I've been reading, especially on the heat and noise side.

Thanks again for your input,

regards,

Ro

[rohan]

Pete,

I take it you're referring to something based on the research carried out by Jesus Altive.  That's an area that I hadn't yet reached in my own research leading to my new PC specification.  If his results do in fact resolve the issues raised here, then I'll perhaps still go with either an ASUS Matrix 5870 Platinum or an MSI R5870 Lightning Twin Frozr II.  In any event, for my own peace of mind, I'll go check some reviews of 480 cards as I said in my last post above.

Appreciate your input here,

regards,

Ro

[Guest AS355F]

Pete,

I take it you're referring to something based on the research carried out by Jesus Altive.  That's an area that I hadn't yet reached in my own research leading to my new PC specification.  If his results do in fact resolve the issues raised here, then I'll perhaps still go with either an ASUS Matrix 5870 Platinum or an MSI R5870 Lightning Twin Frozr II.  In any event, for my own peace of mind, I'll go check some reviews of 480 cards as I said in my last post above.

Appreciate your input here,

regards,

Ro

Yeah, he's the guy.

When he fixed the cloud issue for me I thought he was the most aptly named person on earth. 

By the way I agree with the others about the 5970. Dual gpu cards need profiles and I don't think there are any for FSX. Then again I don't think I have ever seen anyone use one.

Does anyone here know someone who has tried a 5970?

Cheers.

[rohan]

Pete,

thanks for confirming that.

I read some GTX 4nn reviews and there seems to be some promise in the upgrades done by MSI and Palit for these cards (especially the MSI Twin Frozr), assuming that their upgrades scale to give similar results when applied to the 480 from the lower models.  However, I found that there still aren't many suppliers who have the 480 and, more importantly, that they only have "standard" cards at the moment.  Unless a better option becomes known (either GTX 480 or HD-5870) by the time I place my order, I'll be going with one of the two cards I listed above, subject to availability and price.

Now I can update the specification I sent to the suppliers I was considering and get a requote,

regards,

Ro