VFR - Outside views or not?

[akaluke]

I'm curious.

When flying VFR and searching for the new freeware dirt/grass strips, do you use outside views (top-down, spot etc) to find the strips?

Or do you keep it as 'realistic' as possible and stay inside the plane?

I like to stick with the virtual cockpit view, only venturing outside for some eye-candy, but not using outside views to actually navigate. I'm trying to plan my flight before I take off, using Google Earth and the directions in the PDF and a stopwatch, then try to locate the strip from inside the plane. Mind you, it's not easy!

[Agrajag]

Yeah, the last time I opened the canopy to go outside for a better view the instructor freaked out! )

Checking landings is the only time I go outside. Partly because there is little reason for me to but also because it is easy to clobber all the textures in some views and I hate waiting for it all to regenerate again!

I too used google earth to help find one of the the strips. I couldn't believe I was flying right over the top of it in the sim )

I am using a real world navigation program called AirNav VFR to create my flight plan to these strips, it is pretty cool hand flying all the way adjusting for wind speed and direction manually using my calculator. I used to fly heavies all the time but this is more fun in my little two seat eurostar. ) Hopefully it will help when I get up to the real life navigation training!

Steven.

[Ken_NZ]

The problem I had when sticking to just the cockpit view is that if you are accurate, it becomes near impossible to actually see the airport.

Out the front of your plane you can only see at some point well in the distance, not right in front of you. Now this may be a limit of FSX, rather than in the real world, but at a distance you can't really see these airports as they are typically just a grass/dirt strip, in between some grassy/dirty fields. At a distance textures are not that crisp. Even anisotropic filtering is limited because FSX simply doesn't load the more detail textures until you are practically on top of something. This all combines to make it almost impossible to find these airports if you are heading directly towards them. If you end up to the side of these airports then you may spot them as you fly past (if you are far enough out).

This is one of the reason I am trying to get hold of some decent maps (if I could find somewhere where I could download such things of tasmania for example) so that I already know it's approximate location and I can fly around the general area to find it once there.

Btw, what altitude should one be at when flying VFR like this (to try to find some unmarked, unknown airport). It strikes me, especially given the limits of FSX (or computer graphics), that the higher you are the worse it'll get (because your view will be futher out, which is blurrier). Yet how low is too low? (don't want the FSX air police after me )

[markwlee]

I find rocking the wings and using TrackIR helps (with my head on a swivel) - don't know about this blur you refer to.  I set my vis at 10 or 20 miles and the strips become visible at a fairly long distance.  Doesn't mean I see them though.  Can be flying right over th top or just to the side and miss them.  Helps to have others in the formation - extra sets of eyes in multiplayer.

[Agrajag]

The problem I had when sticking to just the cockpit view is that if you are accurate, it becomes near impossible to actually see the airport.

I don't find it much easier in real life to find them than in the sim. Sure the ground is more detailed in real life ()) but there is more clutter to hide things in and more haze than I have in the sim.

I fly at 4,500ft. You need to be high enough so you can see into the distance but not so high you lose detail.

markwlee's suggestion of rocking the wings is what we should be doing to get a better view of the ground. Unless your in a high wing anyway! When I spot the field over the nose I will turn to the right a bit so that it will pass on my left. Thats what I do in the sportstar when checking the windsock in real life.

Your VFR flight plan will include the time you should be over the top of the airfield (you need to factor wind into it too of course), using this time value means that if you haven't seen the airport within a minute of two of when you were supposed to it is time to do a turn and have a look around. Often there are other features you can use to help confirm your position so you can at least be sure you are in the right area. If there is nothing recognisable on the map then it might be expanding-square search time )

A map adds a lot to the simming but at worst you can use google earth to locate features.

I remember the first time I was ever in a light aircraft heading towards bankstown airport. My friends father (the pilot) said can you see the airport, I said "nope", he asked me several more times over the next 10 mins. I still couldn't find it and didn't see it until we were almost right over the top of it. Finding them can be tough and bankstown airport is a lot bigger than these strips!

Steven.

[Tweaker]

Current circuit heights for VFR traffic are as follows

Helicopters and Ultralights - 500'

Standard GA aircraft - 1000'

Jets and fast GA aircraft - 1500'

All are heights above strip level.

I was trained to overfly the center of the airfield at 500' above the traffic pattern to observe the windsock and local conditions of the strip (animals etc) and then track to enter the required circuit pattern.  So basically now that means overfly at 2000' AGL and descend to 1000' AGL all the time looking out for other traffic in the pattern. 

You should also plan your Top Of Descent prior to the flight.  Plan to descend at a leisurely 500'/min from whatever altitude you choose to fly at.  Also remember that different directions of travel require different altitude bands to fly at, the same as with the big tin boys.  From memory VFR flights occupy the 500' spaces (1500, 2500.....).  Westbound flights (180-360 degrees) use the odd levels and eastbound flights (0-180 degrees) use the even levels (I think!!!!)

If I am ass up with this I am certain someone will correct me

So this is where it can get tricky without a map for constant position cross checking.  You need to update your arrival time depending on actual flight conditions and location so that you know how far out to descend to the pattern altitude at 500'/min.  So basically if you are cruising @4500' then to be over the airfield @2000' you need to commence descent 5 minutes before you expect to arrive. so @ 90knts that would be 7.5 miles and @120 knts it would be 10 miles.

I hope this helps a little.

As to the question in this thread I usually stay inside the cockpit all the time unless I am really struggling to find the correct location of an airfield.  This is because I don't have any maps for the southern section of Australia to cross reference my actual location with.  Basically I use spot view as a map assistance just like looking at your kneeboard in real life.  TrackIR is a must IMHO, and I am always looking around in between instrument checks.

Up where I am learning to fly we have a nasty little airfield that is actually on the southern side of a hill and we always approach from the north in our NavEx's.  It is impossible to see the strip until you are over the hill and you guessed it, there are a number of hills in the area   Makes you really work hard with your Nav skills to not be embarrassed by your errors!

[akaluke]

I've heard a few mentions of TrackIR now and I'm wondering how much benefit I'd see.

I'm currently using the X52 Pro and I use the hat on the joystick to change my view. I find it really easy to look down at the instruments, look out each window, look up, look down etc. I always fly in virtual cockpit mode and the panning action of the X52 is very smooth.

[Guest J van E]

Doooooooooon't get me started on the TrackIR Pro!!! I can talk about that all day! it's the best piece of hardware I've ever bought, apart from the mandatory pc-hardware of course. It's freaking AWESOME! Once you tried it, you can't fly without it anymore. You want immersion? You want realism? Get the TrackIR! Without the TrackIR I feel trapped in a box when I fly. As if I have a severe tunnelvision syndrom. You can NOT compare the TrackIR with 'smooth panning' using a hat. Believe me. With the TrackIR you can look around exactly as you would in real life! Quick and easy and intuitive. There is nothing like TrackIR. Not only can you look around, but you can also bend forward and backward or move sidewards: all those things you can't do with a hat. Want to set the HSI exactly or need you read some small numbers on a GPS (a VC-one that is)? Simple bend forward as you would in real life! Can't see the knobs of the lights because something is obsctructing the view? Simply look inderneath it or above it. it's all possible and it all feels REAL. And no, you don't have to turn your head all the way to look around and no, it doesn't feel strange to look around by only moving your head a little. It's all very intuitive. And it's a lot quicker too than panning, no matter what smooth panning you have. Quickly glancing sideways really IS quickly galncing sideways: you do it without thinking about it, which certainly isn't the case with panning with a hat. I'll stop now. Although I could go on and on...

Go get one now.

P.S. I know it's quite expensive (I also have the TrackClip Pro) but if mine would break today, I would buy a new one immediately without thinking about it. Without TrackIR no FSX for me.

[Ken_NZ]

Not having this Track IR (and currently not using my Yoke), I find that holding 'space' and looking around with the mouse is quite good - certainly much better than any hat switches or numpads etc. You can also roll the mouse wheel (while holding 'space') to zoom in or out, which can help with the odd thing. The Mission actually mentions what key you can use to turn this 'on' as opposed to holding space all the time you wish to use mouse look.

Track IR is outside my flightsim budget... 

[solareagle]

I do most of my flying from the outside.  I don't have a need to try and mimick real life by confining my self to the VC, so I just use the sim the way I feel like using it.  My flights are all action with no boring trips, and I've not even engaged autopilot once in my life. lol

The airstrips I've gone after are the ones near the most interesting scenery, and I found the easiest way to locate the strips is to set an early morning sun to highlight the terrain, locate the strip via google maps, then use the google terrain feature and the top down view to correllate the position.

[Agrajag]

hehe.  There are those of us who like to sight-see and those of us who enjoy the technical aspects of flight simulation. Most of us fall in the middle area, personally I like the technical aspects (even more so now) but then I am a technical kind of guy. I do like my scenery to look good though.

The great thing about FTX is that while it is great for both types it is probably even better for the technical fliers because we are able to fly more realistically by using available landmarks and all those little airfields for navigating (and landing on!). I haven't enjoyed flight sim this much for a long time.  I am buying the rest of the AirNav VFR maps today (I only have SA at the moment) so I can setup a flight flan from YPPH to YMML covering interesting features and all those new little airfields. My little Columbia 400 is going to get a work out. )

Steven.

[Quinn]

Because my "flying" is more accurately described as time in the air between crashes - I always use "spot view" and mainly just enjoy the scenery until I have to make the agonising decision to hit the ground hopefully as light as possible

[Agrajag]

ROFL!

[akaluke]

Doooooooooon't get me started on the TrackIR Pro!!! I can talk about that all day! it's the best piece of hardware I've ever bought, ...

...snip...

Go get one now.

P.S. I know it's quite expensive (I also have the TrackClip Pro) but if mine would break today, I would buy a new one immediately without thinking about it. Without TrackIR no FSX for me.

I didn't realise it did forward, backward and side to side. I thought it was just pitch, roll and yaw...

Hmmm, let me check my budget.