Please help with upgrading my Nvidia 8800GT video card

[mmglads]

Hi all,

FSX is such a "machine specific complicated beast" to run (I love the way it can run totally differently on similar spec machines) that I though I'd give you my machine specs and ask for advice on upgrading my video card. As a "self-funded retiree", I haven't really got the dough to upgrade the other parts of the PC at the moment, but I think the video card (which is the oldest part of my system) might be my weakest link. Overall, I'm pretty happy with my FSX, but I do notice a lot of video "spiking" & "slow to draw" texture renewal, so I think it's the card.

Here goes then:

Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P (18 months old)

Processor: Intel E8400 Dual Core - not overclocked at all

Memory: 4 Gb 800mhz Kingston RAM (new matched pair)

Power Supply: 850w Antec Quietpower (brand new this!)

Video card: Nvidia 8800 GT 512Mb RAM (over 2 years old)

Monitor: Samsung Syncmaster 2493HM - running at 1900 x 1200

Nvidia settings as advised by Maurice King (ta Mozz, working well) & frame rates set at 22FPS.

That's the basics, anyhow. I have 4 Sata HDD's, 2 Optical drives & run the usual 6-8 USB devices. I have a Belkin battery backup - living on the Northern Rivers, we get plenty of power spikes & outages!

On simple aircraft & scenery, FSX, FTX, REX 2.0 runs very well. But loading something like YMML - even with JV's tweaking advice - brings the whole thing to a halt. Takes 1-2 minutes to load up, & with frame rates of 5~6. As soon as you take off - well, stagger into the air really, all becomes well as the airport is left behind. I've tried with & without SP1, but to no avail. Other airports, Coffs, Hervey Bay etc., are slower to load than my Lismore default, but fly OK.

OK, that's my scenario, would really appreciate any advice out there - just please remember I haven't got the dollars to purchase an "Uber Uber" card!

Cheers,

Malcolm.

[}SkOrPn--7]

Have you thought about taking 2 of your HDD's and making them Raid0? Are you running your desktop resolution the same as the game resolution which is 1920x1200? When was the last time you did a format and start from scratch downloading all the latest drivers and bios drivers etc to have a crisp clean system? Upgrading your video card will change nothing except to empty your wallet so just remember that a bigger faster card will then became a bottle neck due to your motherboard giving no performance increase it's a balancing act. Not knowing your Nvidia settings this could be a problem that a tweak moss gave you doesn't work so well on your PC because those sort of tweaks can be hit and miss on different machines as well. Do you have your games installed on another HDD not your C: drive?

[mmglads]

Hi }SkOrPn--7, no, I can't really get into the RAID thing, so that's not an option for me, I'm afraid - all my HDD's are different sizes & makes gleaned over the years, can't afford to buy more at present. Just installed Windows 7 RC, new Bios etc. about one month ago when I came back from hols, & I formatted my FSX drive & did that too - took flamin' ages! But all clean & good. Yep, game resolution running at screen resolution - 1900 x1200. FSX is on completely dedicated SATA HDD. My Windows 7 & FSX drives are my newest & best. Tried with & without nHancer recently, but nVidia without nHancer seemed to give me a better result visually - little difference with frame rates using either system of video adjustment. I just read somewhere that more video RAM & a faster card would help, hence the enquiry. Also tried reducing the amount of processes running, this also made lttle difference to the video performance.

The screen seems to "flash" black triangular textures on a fast pan around & takes a while to re-draw the textures when switching from spot to cockpit mode & vice-versa. There sure is a problem somewhere, I could not believe how awful YMML is on my 3.0Ghz system - it's such a great airport too. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep trying!

[alainneedle1]

Here is the fastest card you can have right now to run FSX, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143201

I just got it myself, went from 2 BFG GTX 8800 OC2 to this card and trust me it did make a difference, now since your system is not oced don't expect miracle you'll be a lot better with your CPU oced and faster ram but since you want to change your card first go for the BFG.

Your ram and CPU will be the bottleneck on your system now since this card can handle the i7 975 oced at 4.3>GHz easy. Next step will be to change your CPU or overclock the one you have right now.

Good luck.......

[petejohno]

I don't think a video card upgrade will make a lot of difference. Get rid of that bufferpools mod if you have it or at least lower it and see if that helps with the card issues. As far as YMML goes, your not the only one who has trouble running it. When I go to YMML I use no autogen and in the YMML config panel only have one option activated (landside scenery I think it is). Goes OK with that and still looks sweet.    

[Maurice_King]

I can't really get into the RAID thing,

Thank God for that, unless your prepared to go RAID 5 and a minimum of 3 decent drives I personally believe you are shooting yourself in the foot. Speed of the drives has an effect on FSX but not as much as some believe

A Simming friend in Sydney has a similar specification PC to myself and recently put a GTX285 in it and apparently the thing just rocks now in heavy cloud at 30FPS +.

There is a certain amount of truth in FSX being CPU dependent but given the descention in the ranks regarding the i7 series and it's apparent lack of performance. I'd say that the GPU is egually responsible for some performance gains.

I have seen way too many quad core PC's using just one core for FSX, yes only one and thats after the supposed fancy upgrade.

I forced the PC to dedicate Core 0 to the OS (which it does by default) and made the remaining 3 cores run FSX bingo 15 FPS and shitty to 30+ with heavy Clouds 60 synced to the Vert refresh when in the clear and just about max settings for everything.

[BennyHill]

My setup is:

Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3

Processor: Intel E6750 Dual Core - overclocked from 2.66 to 3.2Gb/s

Memory: 4 1xGb 677mhz Kingston RAM matched pairs

Power Supply: 650w Antec Quietpower

Video card: Nvidia 8800 GT 512Mb RAMec

Monitor: 3 DELL 1704PT - running at 1280 x 1024 on a TH2Go

Windows XP 64bit

Yesterday, I went to the Gosford Computer Fair and purchased:

Processor: Intel E9550 Quad Core - $315

Memory: 2 2xGb 1066Mhz Corsair DDR2 RAM matched pairs - $125

Video card: Nvidia 9800 GT 1024Mb DDR3 - $275

Total cost $715

All well within my budget and expect a great improvement over my present system.

Was tempted by a WD 150Gb 10,000rpm SATA hard disk for $235- but I need the money for more ORBx products (Tamworth, Brisbane and Caloundra)

Will stick with my 250Gb and 150Gb 7,200 WD drives for now.

All the above will fit the present motherboard.

Purchased a Gigabyte EP31-DS3L for $95 so my old CPU, memory and RAM will fit to upgrade my grandson's AMD single core box

So, even if you don't have the funds to buy a whole new system, you can upgrade your present setup.

[mmglads]

Someone's kindly given me a link to "Tom's Hardware", which apparently has heaps of up to date tests on video cards, CPU's & memory etc., - and FSX is one of their test beds, apparently. So orf I go trawling tomorrow for more info. Thanks so much for the feedback all, I'll let you know how I go!

[triton]

Since not everyone has the spare cash to shell out on the latest hardware sometimes we need to ensure what we have is runnng optimally, If you have fast Memory.. you should definately look at overclocking your CPU, or getting someone who knows what they are doing to look at it for you. Loads of folks have those things running at 4Ghz!, even 3.6Ghz will show a difference.

As Far as i can see For FSX you Need:

A fast CPU clock speed: theres a lot of data flying about, you need a fast pump (3.6+Ghz), and a good RAM reservoir to hold it in(4GBytes)

You also need a High Memory bandwidth ,think of this as the diameter of the hose from the Ram to the CPU the pump and reservoir need to be balanced , Lower Cas numbers= faster flow rate if setup correctly.

This is the basics stuff that needs to be as optimal and configured as close as possible for your hardware. On top of this if windows isn't setup correctly you will effectivly have some leaks in the plumming that prevent the flow getting to your chosen location! the same is true for the wrong drivers(or less optimal)

Now comes the GPU.. If the water pipe above it too thin, or the pump too weak.. it wont matter how much ground (resolution) your sprinkler (GPU) system can cover!

IT wont achieve the results your after.. investment in faster and higher capacity sprinklers (GPU) will only help if the flow rate is optimal.

Now GPU's are like computer systems, they have there own processor(pump) and there own video memory(reservoir).

The video memory gets filed by the System CPU and Ram Pumps and the GPU processor renders this out to the display (flower bed)

So for the best looking flower bed, you need all of these pipelines to be optimal.

What I am trying to say is ensure everything else is optimal before you spend a lot of money upgrading that card.. cause it might not be the best use of cash!

Some others with the same hardware as you(configured differently) may have seen a benefit from an upgraded card, whilst others wont see much difference other than bragging rights!

one area that might help is having a card with more texture ram.i.e. a 1024MB GPU, in this case any extra ram can be put to use in FSX via the bufferpools config line in fsx.cfg to store geometric info for the autogen, this saves the system having to get it from disk or main ram, and can improve performance with higher autogen levels.

It's very difficult to give specific advise on specifics, but if I look at your details below:

Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P (18 months old) This looks to be a good overclocker

Processor: Intel E8400 Dual Core - not overclocked at all Overclock it make sure you have a good heatsink

Memory: 4 Gb 800mhz Kingston RAM (new matched pair) The important info is the ram timing and voltages and ensuring our motherboard settings match these.

Power Supply: 850w Antec Quietpower (brand new this!) Looks fine FYI I run an i7 920@4Ghz, GTX285,6GB ram and 4 SATA and CDROm from a 600W PSU.. albeit a good one.

Video card: Nvidia 8800 GT 512Mb RAM (over 2 years old) more ram might help

Monitor: Samsung Syncmaster 2493HM - running at 1900 x 1200

Nvidia settings as advised by Maurice King (ta Mozz, working well) & frame rates set at 22FPS.

That's the basics, anyhow. I have 4 Sata HDD's, 2 Optical drives & run the usual 6-8 USB devices. I have a Belkin battery backup - living on the Northern Rivers, we get plenty of power spikes & outages!

On simple aircraft & scenery, FSX, FTX, REX 2.0 runs very well. But loading something like YMML - even with JV's tweaking advice - brings the whole thing to a halt. Takes 1-2 minutes to load up, & with frame rates of 5~6. As soon as you take off - well, stagger into the air really, all becomes well as the airport is left behind. I've tried with & without SP1, but to no avail. Other airports, Coffs, Hervey Bay etc., are slower to load than my Lismore default, but fly OK.

OK, that's my scenario, would really appreciate any advice out there - just please remember I haven't got the dollars to purchase an "Uber Uber" card!

If it's just YMML thats the issue.. have you considered just loading another config on arrival or departure that supports a lower setting, then changing this when your further out? you can do this without leaving the flight, and it's a lot cheaper than throwing loads of cash at YMML! ..

[alainneedle1]

mmglads, you want a new card just go for it and please yourself, no matter what another card will be better if you choose the right one.....

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143201

[mmglads]

It's interesting, you know - after all of the excellent advice (I'm not brave enough to overclock anything, as you will see below I'm not the world's best computer tecchie) on OC'ing, I had a quick look at my CPU speed using a program called CPU-Z. Apparently this is a well known program used by folks braver than me who want to check esoteric things like Bus Speeds & important voltages etc. All I wanted to have a look at was my CPU speed. Running the program shows the Core Speed fluctuating between 1999.99 MHz & 3000.00 MHz. Is this normal? It never gets above the 3000MHz mark, just constantly changes speed.

My GigaByte Motherboard has a great overclocking tool - M.I.T. - which allows you to "fiddle" without destroying anything - you adjust one parameter, & the others are adjusted for you - a sort of "dumb bloke's overclocker"! I admit it - I had a go - only raising the speed from 3000 to 3200. It booted up, had a think & then reset itself to the defaults. I then (never one to give up on the first try!) tried the "C.I.A.2" part of the program - an intellingent overclocker which looks at which program you're running & adjusts the CPU speed automatically. It has 5 speeds - from "cruise" to full thrust", but again no joy, after an attempt to go onto  "cruise" - the first level - the system reset itself to default & here we are. At least I didn't break anything, but it's been a tense morning.

So OC'ing not for me I'm afraid, I'm back to square one - i.e. a new video card. Now I'm off to have a fly around. Cheers all!

[triton]

Fair Enough Malcolm,

The speed fluctuations are Normal and caused by the CPU reducing power when you dont need. this results in the clock slowing down. as long as it goes to 3.0Ghz when you ask for it by running FS then thats great.. enjoy the card.. FYI I have the card that Alainneedle1 suggested it's a top card

[GuywithaBeer]

I'm running a very similar system

E8400, 8800GT, 4gb Ram (well 3.5), even the same family of MoBo. except I run on XP

I have my CPU OC to 3.6 on the stock heatsink, with a completely stable system, no temp problems etc.

So don't be afraid to give a small tweak, you'll find it should handle it. (if you don't go overboard of course)

My YMML runs sluggish as well and I think it is a GPU thing (not enough ram) as I notice the simple act of looking away from the terminal buildings will gain me between 5 and 10 fps.

I'll be getting a new GPU in the next month or so, so if you haven't updated your own by then I'll let you know how it goes for me, and can potentially save you going down the wrong route. (for me not an issue as I intend the upgrade for more than just FSX.)

[BradHosking]

I currently am running a 3870 OC version (factory overclocked, not by me!) and I am looking currently at either a GTX260 216 chip or the GTX275 Video card. Honestly it comes down to "bang for buck"

The 8800GT and the 3870 are closely matched so I suppose if that's the case then if I were you for just over the $200 mark you can get a GTX260 card and it will rock. The GTX275 is only a few $$$ more and will improve it again but not by much.

Have a look at the high performance charts are tom's hardware and then compare prices on www.staticice.com.au. That should give you a good reference for both performance and price.

[Arismac]

Thanks to all for a very informative discussion. This newbie is already looking at hardware improvements. I currently have 9500 GT and 4 x 2 Quad CPU Q8200  @ 2.33gHz with 4.00 GB RAM.

I am not happy with the video performance and am now getting permanent black areas on buildings etc. Should my first move to change the video card to GTX275 or look at a card that will handle multiple monitors which I would like as my next serious upgrade.

I am currently dealing with a Leading Edge franchise in the West but am having a little trouble getting serious advise about flight sim hardware technology.

Many thanks in advance.

[mmglads]

I agree totally, thanks to all for the really useful info. I've been over to Tom's Hardware for some more detailed reviews - and it does seem that upping the amount of RAM in the GPU really does help, especially at the resolution I run, 1900 x 1200. The 8800GT really isn't up to producing at that resolution - there are plenty of views about that, too! The overclocking procedure as far as my own rig is concerned seems to be somehow "locked" - - I did try again, but even OC'ing from 3.0 to 3.2 met with a reboot & back to original speed. Very strange. So I shall probably look at the GTX 260, maybe the 270, but buget wise I'm a bit limited. This has been an excellent & useful thread - I'll update when I have the new card. It really isn't for me, about squeezing another frame, but stopping the "staggeres & jags" that occur on the ground - and in the air, as the the textures struggle to redraw. Cheers all, Malcolm.