Please Check Over My Wishlist?

[Jim Robinson]

Can a few of you hardware experts have a look at my wishlist before I do anything stupid like spending money on hardware items that're incompatible with one another ?

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=16463512

The plan is to put the two Velociraptors on RAID 0 for my FSX installation and install the OS on the SSD. The 1 Tb 7200 rpm drive will be for storing large project files and backups. At Ian's recommendation I've added the RAID controller for real 'hardware' RAID.

Here's a question: My board has two 'PCI Express 2.0 x16' slots, but IIUC they'll only run at x8 if both slots are filled. My GTX-580 is supposed to be x16, so if I put the RAID controller in the other slot will I be loosing the x16 speed(?) of the vid card?

I'm also particularly concerned about the RAM as it is not on the mobo qualified module list. Newegg doesn't have any of the modules on the list until you drop down into the DDR3 1866 variety which I think I should probably avoid? Currently I have two "RAM's" listed, the Corsair and the GSkill. It'll be one or the other, the Corsair is currently out of stock so will the GSkill modules I have on the list be OK with my mobo?

I'd appreciate any guidance I can get here and I'm not hung up on any particular component so if anyone has any suggestions for substitutions I'm wide open.

Thanks a million guys,

Jim

[Guest J van E]

How big is your current FSX folder...? Personally I would forget about the Raid and the Velo's altogether and simply install the OS and FSX on that SSD!!! Or get two 128 gb SSD's. That instantly saves you $ 639!!! Only when your FSX folder is HUGE (using photoreal scenery) you could consider Raid... But to me it looks like a waste of money...

Nice bonus would be you can forget about that PCI-e problem... ;-)

Secondly: get 1600 Mhz RAM. Anything higher is overkill, although you might benefit a bit from speedier ram like 1800. Timings are more important, so look for 1600 ram with CL 8 or 7. (Although I did read somewhere that you can let very fast ram run slower and then get faster timings... Maybe someone else can chime in on this?)

Last (for now): if FSX is your main program, get the i5 2500K. You don't need the 2600's hyperthreading for FSX. You probably even have to turn it off for FSX!

O, one more thing! Get a good CPU cooler (Scythe Mugen 2) and overclock that CPU! Do not expect to run FSC perfectly with the CPU at stock speeds!!! Not overclocking an 2500/2600K is a crime!

[Tim Crowell]

all that in a mid tower case is gonna be crammed, I'd move up to a full tower

[ClemCookie]

Yes. It will get slightly crammed so get a full tower to get the cooling in.

[Jim Robinson]

Thanks guys. Yes the plan was to overclock and I forgot all about the CPU cooler so thanks for reminding me. I'll get one on the list. Not sure what to do re the 2600k, I'll be doing a lot of Photoshop stuff so will I want the hyperthreading for that?

Ditching the raptors/RAID is tempting. Been running RAID 0 for 10 yrs and I really like the way it crunches through file and folder tasks in Windows Explorer, but I suppose an SSD would be like greased lightning anyway so probably wouldn't be an issue. I could spend the money saved on a much needed new digicam. What if I added a second 256 Gb SSD for the FSX installation just to make sure I've got enough space? I've always wussed out on storage capacity in the past and wound up regretting it later. I'll probably have FS9 with all the trimmings installed on this drive too.

I'll swap out the case for a full tower, thanks for the heads up.

Jim

[BionicCrab]

If it were me..I'd stick to 1600 or 1866 at the highest. I know you are trying to match the compatibility list but I think the reason so few items actually make it on there is because the technology just isn't that stable to begin with, where as just about any 1600mhz DIMM on the market will do the job. Although that wasn't even true when I bought my i7 two years ago, and the 1333's were the most stable. To me it's really marketing getting ahead of the technology curve.

[2110]

Hi Jim,

The CPU is good, I would keep it, it has 8 threads as apposed to the normal 4 threads, although FSX doesn’t really need them, other programs, like video editing, number crunching programs will fly.

I have looked at your case, it has a 120mm fan slot at the back, so you can fit water cooling for the CPU no problem.

Water Cooling,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209049

Antec Kuhler H20 620 liquid cooling system $74.19

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209054&cm_sp=Pers_ProductSimilar-_-35-209-054_4_AG-_-35-209-049

Antec Kuhler H20 920 liquid cooling system $119.99

Hard Drives,

Raid0 is fast but unless its used as the C:\ drive, I’m sure there is no point speed wise. You could go for two, ssd set up as raid0, but I would check out there read write times. Not so good. I would just drop the raptors and the SATA SSD, poor value for money, but keep the Western digital 1T, I have one, it has the 64Mb cache, and is plenty fast enough for storage.

As a C:\ drive I would go for the OCZ revodrive 3, read time is 1000Mb/s and write is 900Mb/s. 240Gb drive will cost $599.99 and remember you can get cheaper slower versions of this type of drive.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-revodrive-3-x2-pci-express-ssd.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227740

Now if the Revodrive is your thing, then your current Mobo is out, incompatible, but I have a couple of alternatives for you, later.

This revodrive is the fastest currently available, problem is a lot of people have issues installing windows onto it, by default windows will ignore the revodrive hardware due to the fact that it’s not SATA hardware. What should happen is, when windows doesn’t detect a hard drive, it should ask you if you wish to install a driver, at this point you insert the revodriver disk, you may have to point windows to the correct driver, but it should all be straight forwards. There are other ways around this problem, but if you don’t know what your doing then take it to a professional.

Motherboards,

These two mobo’s have both been tested by OCZ to work with the Revodrives, just disable the S3 sleep mode in the bios, you shouldn’t use this anyway. The revodrive uses a PCIe slot, which is the same as the graphics card, both these mobo’s have 3 PCIe slots, the top two slots are for graphics cards and the bottom black slot is for devices like the revodrive, they are on different control chips, can run at different speeds and will not conflict with each other.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730&Tpk=P8Z68-V%20Pro

Asus P8Z68-V PRO $209.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131701

Asus P8P67 DELUXE $224.99

Only real difference between them is the northbridge, first is the Intel, second is the Sandy bridge, which is a better design for your CPU. I would read the feedback on these two boards first tho.

Memory,

When you look at the mobo specs and it says it can run memory at 2133Mhz for example, what it is really saying is that it can run certain brands of memory at that speed. It is well worth your time, reading the tested and compatible memory modules list that the motherboard manufacturer provide. You will find this list on there websites, i.e.

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8P67_DELUXE/#MSL

All memory has a code built into it, this code is then read by the mobo bios and tell the mobo the correct setting for that memory, unless the memory is on the tested list, it will default back to its standard speed and not the (OC) clock speed. If you know what your doing and can manually (OC) the memory in the bios, but if not then I would purchase memory that’s listed.

I’ll leave this up to you, some homework for you.

At the end of the day you must make up your own mind, I would contact the retailers and talk to them see what they advice before spending so much money, they sell hundreds of these each week and will know what works best.

Lastly, your joystick, you have no throttle or rudder control. If you are to be flying every day, I would spend some cash on a more expensive one, they are much better and do make a big difference to your flying skills,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826102067

Very expensive I know, you can go for much cheaper ones if you like, but if your spending hundreds of hours sim flying, well you think about it.

These are just suggestions and food for thought, have fun with what ever you purchase, it’s like having an early Christmas.

Cheers Phil.

[Alex Goff]

Hey Jim since this is going to be your developing workstation I'd recommend 8gb of RAM minimum.

I was using 4gb for about a year and any PR work with an image over about 10,000x10,000 pixels took forever to do. I have 8gb now and it works well but the guys who run tri-channel rigs and use 12gb say it's incredible. So since the 2600K is dual channel I'd say 8gb or 16gb.

That'll let you make nice large photoreal areas without having to go take a nap, go for a walk, and make dinner while you wait on the file to open.

[Jim Robinson]

Wow guys thanks for the feedback. Currently I've found some Kingston DDR3 2000 modules that are on the qualified modules list so I've added 8GB of that to the wishlist. I haven't taken the GSkills DDR3 2133 stuff off yet though.

Phil thanks for the insight, really appreciate it. So if I were to ditch the RAID, raptors, and SATA SSD and go with the revodrive how would I use it? I mean I'd install Windows on it of course, what would I do with the FSX installation? Put it on the revodrive too (in a folder outside of program files presumably)? That'd be awesome speedwise, but it looks like a lot of folks are having issues with getting them set up according to the newegg user feedback, you reckon that's mostly because of the requirement of additional drivers and untested boards?

On the joystick it's really a "slew stick" in this case. What I need is a stick that slews smoothly without taking up too much room on the desk. I may invest in a yoke & pedals down the road a ways but for now I just need something smoother than this jerky Logitech POS I've been using. I was hoping the CH stick would be about the same size and style but with some higher quality pots.

Alex, thanks. I had 'qty 2' on the RAM so 8Gb was what I was shooting for. I know what you mean about those big PRs, I was playing with one about that size last night with my trusty old Athlon XP machine. Talk about a waiting game .

Thanks everybody, I'm still checking out some of the things you've posted. Appreciate it.

Jim

[davenicoll]

Agree with the suggestion to go Full tower...I have a Cooler Master Cosmos S and have loads of room for air cooling...

Possibly think of going liquid cooled on the CPU,one of the Corsair models will do if you are going to overclock that beauty and it is a self contained unit.

I have a 10,000rpm Velociraptor 600gb and she runs a dream...not in Raid mode I might add with ONLY my OS on a 64gb SSD

I am very happy with my system and will only upgrade the graphics card next (480 to 580)

[Guest J van E]

Forget my remark about the i5 2500K: when you Photoshop a lot you really should go for that i7 2600K!

About the Retrodrive: they are fast indeed but also very expensive and very new... Feel free to dive into the dark unkown, , but personally I'd go for SSD's (and the m4's are pretty good, so I am told). I am also in the market for a new system and I am going the SSD-road, probably one m4 128 Gb SSD for FSX (and everything else that fits on it) and my current Intel 80 GB SSD for Windows 7 only: all other programs go on the Samsung T1 F3 drive. Two 256 Gb drives, which you are thinking about, would definitely be enough! You still have that old fashioned hard disk to install programs on that don't really need the extra speed an SSD offers! (You can also install everything on those two SSD's until you run out of space and start using the hard disk for programs and stuff: you could even use the Windows 7 junction options to move programs to that hard disk in a few seconds.)

About watercooling: the SandyBrdige CPU's overclock VERY easily on air, so a good CPU-cooler is enough: no need to go for expensive water cooling systems imho.

[2110]

Hi Jim,

What ever programs you run which are load intensive should be put on your C:\ drive, basically which ever programs you use the most day to day.

It also depends on how much hard drive space you need, remember that windows will always use the C:\ drive for temp files, anything you are currently working on will be temporally stored on the C:\ drive, your 8Gb memory will help, but windows will always be windows.

I would only fill about 60% of your C:\ drive.

Personally, I currently have a 120Gb ssd as my C:\ drive with only fraps and video editing software on it, FSX and all my secondary stuff is on my WD 1T drive.

When I had FSX on the ssd drive, it loaded faster, but I wouldn’t say it run any better.

What I do notice is that recording with fraps straight to the ssd drive I only drop a couple of FPS if that, I used to drop a good 10 – 12 FPS, also the editing/converting time for my video’s is so much faster using the ssd drive.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?90197-Install-problems-to-Revo-drive-...read-this.

There are many different ways to do a revodrive install, for a clearer picture I would head over OCZ forums and ask the questions, before you purchase, you will get good advice.

The most important thing to remember is to disable S3 power option in your bios, this actually powers down your hard drive, which not only reduces the voltage but the current as well and is a bad thing for any SSD device.

Making these choices are never easy, you should really just follow your gut instincts, if you don’t feel comfortable with something it usually means it the wrong thing to do.

At the end of the day what you have to consider as well is reliability, do you really need ssd drives, they are fast, low powered and produce low heat but are low capacity unless you pay through the nose.

Personally I have every faith in Revodrives and SSD drives, just as soon as I can I’ll get a revo. But the Sata and Raid cards are proven technology, and the good thing about Raid cards is that they take the workload away from the CPU.

I would either go for the;

1- Revodrive plus the WD 1T

2- Revodrive plus a Raptor drive, you loose some capacity but faster option than 1.

3- Raid card plus two raptors in Raid0, unless you really want an SSD drive this is your most reliable option. Remember this is Sata 6Gb.

Some other things to remember as well, Heat inside your case, graphics cards and hard drives heat up quite a lot, the pc case you have picked has two fans in front of the HD caddy which pull in cool air over the HD’s and create higher ambient temperatures inside the case.

For this reason I would invest in a CPU water-cooling unit, these are sealed units you don’t have to top them up or maintain them. The good thing is not only do they remove the CPU heat from the case but they remove a lot of the ambient heat as well.

Your original SSD drive was only 2.5 inches, if you get the SSD drive try to get a 3.5 inch, they don’t need adapters and work better.

Power protection, no one ever thinks about this;

http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=314&name=Power-Protection

If you suffer power spicks or power looses, these devices can save your PC. They can also give to 5 or 10 minutes to power down your PC in case of a total power lose.

Hope this helps some, please let us know what you eventually go for and how you get on with it,

Cheers Phil.

[Jim Robinson]

Thanks guys, still looking, will report back.

One quick question: I'm looking at CPU coolers and finding lots of models for LGA 1156 but very few say they'll fit LGA 1155 specifically. I've found one that says it'll fit both so is it safe to say that a CPU cooler for LGA 1156 will also fit LGA 1155?

I know I can probably get away with air cooling and that's what I initially had planned, but didn't realize the LC systems were all self contained. I wasn't really into mixing up the Prestone and keeping a radiator full, but if it's all sealed and ready to go I think I'll go the liquid route after all. What do you all think of this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209054

Thanks,

Jim

[2110]

Hi Jim,

Most air and water coolers now come with brackets that fit all CPU socket types. LGA 1156 and 1155, are same size brackets.

I have the 620, the 920 your looking at comes with two steel brackets, one for Intel, the other for AMD. Two sets of plastic spacers, which clip onto the steel bracket, again green for AMD, blue for Intel. If I remember right,

The installation instruction are the worst I have ever seen, but it’s not rocket science, just pay attention to the diagrams, the spacer orientations and you can’t really go wrong.

You first need to remove the fan bracket from the mobo then fit the new water-cooling bracket in its place. Don’t tighten the new bracket screws, first install the mobo into the case, fit the CPU.

Make sure the radiator is fitted to the case ok and the fans for the radiator are in place.

Then simply fit the cooling head unit over the CPU, give it a slight twist so the bracket pins hold it in place ok and then tighten the four bracket screws until your happy its secure.

I had to place mine outside of my case, I only had a 80mm fan on the back of my case, so it was a hacksaw job but it looks good and never even feels warm to the touch. Once you go water cooling you’ll never look back.

Cheers Phil.

[Maurice_King]

IMHO you are wasting time and money with a RAID installation, If you want bots speed and reliability and far morimportantly redundancy then RADI 5 IS the only answer, but totally impractical for a Simming PC.

Use a single SMALL ie 30 GB Partition on one of the raptor's for your OS and OS ONLY on as C:\ and edit your registry to have ALL of the Windows Temp Dirs Program Files etc on separate drives and install ALL your FSX on one of the SSD's, REMEMBER you DO NOT NEED massive SSD for FSX because FSX doesn't give a tinkers toss where it is and where Scenery is installed AS long as it knows.

In this regard you buys additional SSD's as the need arises.

Your system will perform much better if your Pagefile.sys is on one of the SSD's too.

The EVGA Superclocked is unreliable from some of the reviews I have seen so be careful there.

In all honesty if your using a Gigabyte MoBo then I'd be using a Gigabyte nVidia Chipset GPU to maintain the best compatibility.

Definitely go a FULL Tower anyone using a mini or even midi tower give the hardware available and the heat it can produce is asking for potential issues latter due to heat build up and lack of good airflow, I have said it in these forums many times that there is absolutely no substitute for Airflow.

Perforated cases are a good option if they have good fans but I prefer to have the case sealed so the Air pressure is greater internally in the case and ALL the Air exits via the GPU and PSU vents and is ducted AWAY from the PC to greatly reduce recycled air.