ORBX Europe

[Magnus Almgren]

I'm writing here to add my absolute top Christmas wish!

...a ORBX scenery for Europe.

Therefore I would like to start a post to show ORBX the need for such a project.

I have bought them all fro Europe - I have Aerosoft Germany, GEX and UTX EU but none of them are even close to the brilliant scenery that ORBX builds.

The sense of a living surrounding - the variety of vegetation is just brilliant.

Although the only scenery that are still working for me is SwitzerlandX - but the more I fly in US or AU the more I feel that even SwitzerlandX is a dead place.

So if any one, from Europe, or having the same wish then me please add you lines here.

I guess the more that have comments the better it is.

Maybe ORBX could comment it - is there something cooking?

...please Santa make my wish become reality...

[briansommers]

I would love that, orbx for the whole freakin' fsx world!

[Magnus Almgren]

Now we are talking!!!

...but please a little of EU first...

[keeszondag]

I support this request wholeheartedly! I can only do two things: wait for the EU releases or move to Australia!

[Guitarman]

I fully agree with this topic, we really need your sceneries for Europe.  There is no other company like ORBX that can make such detailed addons.  See also requests on the REX forum, http://realenvironmentxtreme.com/forum/index.php?topic=12182.0.

[alex330]

Many of the ORBX US/Canada textures would look good in middle and northern Europe

[Argharg]

Orbx approach wont work for good old Europe. If the New Word can take an acceptable "generic" filling (because of the buildings in Australia, new zealand and the pacific north coast) as - at most - 150 years old, cities are very "standardized", (downtown, suburbs, mall, buildings etc), and field tend to square, and vast amount of landscape is still virgin. All that is good for a certain amount of self generated autogen. (before you start flaming I know Washington State, Queensland and NSW relatively well).

In opposite, Alp valley are all occupied with small village "attached" to the cliff, france is bloated with specific churches and castles, fields were drawn 2000 years ago and are anything but square, any single creek in the mediteranean has its own village etc.. Basically it wont work. (or it may for someone NOT LEAVING THERE, but wont for someone from the place) Swiss Pro FSX and Bretagne FSX based on photoreal as probably as good as it get for now. They could improve by twicking the textures to offer 5 seasons but that's all imho.

Etienne 

[Magnus Almgren]

Etienne your pessimist!

...Well in terms of technical issues I dont really care to much - you are probably absolutely right...

...but people have moved mountains before...

I cant see why you can not create a autogen that creates a non square pattern... It is all down to mathematics...

Well before Swiss Pro FSX there was Swiss PRO for FS9 - Ok it is a photoreal scenery - but to come to the point. A community was created and all of the houses and tree lines was drawn by hand. Every interested in the community got his share of the scenery to create. In the end it was a very nice scenery.

And I almost bet there is a recognition program for scenery build - to for us normal dying people - but created in-house at for example ORBX...

Ok I dont want this post to be a pie throwing post - I would like people who want a EU scenery to post their wishes and opinions.

But Etienne I think you have a point.

[Toby91]

I'm also placing a wish for Norway to be made by ORBX, i think some of the textures made for PNW and PFJ, NRM would suit Norway as we have much od the same landscapes Fjords, moutains, valleys and countrysides!

I am really hoping for norway, hope there are many more with me on this one!

Cheers! Toby91

[Magnus Almgren]

...and I'm Swedish so you know my wish - Scandinavia Rocks!

[Wildbird]

Sweden is already getting a very good looking scenery made in the same style as the orbx stuff. 

[Bruce Hamilton]

I would love that, orbx for the whole freakin' fsx world!

The problem is that other developers like Aerosoft make their airports to mesh with their scenery, either they would have to redo them to mesh with Orbx, or Orbx would have to do them from scratch.

[Wolter van der Spoel]

Hi all,

Living in Europe myself  I can relate to the sentiments expressed here about a European scenery with the ORBX/FTX treatment and read me correctly I am NOT a developer, but what I have understood from the Team is that the hardest part for making a good scenery is the availability of decent aerial imagery, if it is available then you have to buy it as a company, wich means many dollars= Euro's. then you get the next thing up your plate is that not all countries allow their aerial imagery to be redistributed by third parties and so on and so on, apart from that if you look at buildings and town layouts in Europe the diversity is almost infinite hence it will be a Herculenean task to get that sorted apart from the amount of time needed if you then add that all up what price would ORBX-FTX need to ask for such a scenery wich then also probably would end up in the 4-6 Gb size or even larger.

Another thing would be as to where the division line between Europe and the rest would be, must it include all former Su satelite states and part of Russia as well ?

just some food for tought gents no more no less

[Magnus Almgren]

Sweden is already getting a very good looking scenery made in the same style as the orbx stuff. 

I did not know that!!!

tell me all about it!!!!

[Guest J van E]

I'm also placing a wish for Norway to be made by ORBX, i think some of the textures made for PNW and PFJ, NRM would suit Norway as we have much od the same landscapes Fjords, moutains, valleys and countrysides!

I am really hoping for norway, hope there are many more with me on this one!

Cheers! Toby91

I don't live in Norway (I live in the Netherlands) but Norway is number 1 on my list of countries that should get the Orbx treatment. I've been to Norway about 13 times in my youth: I'd love to go back there virtually.

I am afraid it won't happen though...

[gheeD]

Sweden is already getting a very good looking scenery made in the same style as the orbx stuff. 

I did not know that!!!

tell me all about it!!!!

I don't know how much you are allowed to advertise in here, but its called SWED2011. Google it.

As much as i agree and hope for whole europe to be orbxed, the truth is what Etienne said; it will be a lot harder task than Aus and USA.

[keeszondag]

Hi all,

Living in Europe myself  I can relate to the sentiments expressed here about a European scenery with the ORBX/FTX treatment and read me correctly I am NOT a developer, but what I have understood from the Team is that the hardest part for making a good scenery is the availability of decent aerial imagery, if it is available then you have to buy it as a company, wich means many dollars= Euro's. then you get the next thing up your plate is that not all countries allow their aerial imagery to be redistributed by third parties and so on and so on, apart from that if you look at buildings and town layouts in Europe the diversity is almost infinite hence it will be a Herculenean task to get that sorted apart from the amount of time needed if you then add that all up what price would ORBX-FTX need to ask for such a scenery wich then also probably would end up in the 4-6 Gb size or even larger.

Another thing would be as to where the division line between Europe and the rest would be, must it include all former Su satelite states and part of Russia as well ?

just some food for tought gents no more no less

So actually you're telling us changes are that ORBX will not make European scenery? I can understand your explanation and see the enormous problems ahead. Problem for me is that I want to spend big money on great scenery for Europe. If ORBX is not delivering in the coming 2 years, I have to go elsewhere, but I didn't find a product for Eu that looks anything like the ORBX stuff. To me it feels a little strange to simulate flights in parts of the world where I don't have basic topographical knowledge; it just doesn't appeal to me even though it looks fantastic!

Bummer for us European simmers!

[Wolter van der Spoel]

wo ho ho ho,

I'm NOT saying that ORBX is discarding the idea, maybe I should write it in dutch to forecome any misunderstandings, I merely wrote what the implications and difficulties are for the Team creating such sceneries and in NO WAY I've said or suggested with one word that ORBX wouldn't make such sceneries so please don't create assumptions and stick to what is said.

eerst GOED lezen KEES ! en niet proberen om uitspraken in mijn mond te leggen die ik niet gemaakt heb, we hebben al genoeg stemming makers hier, moet jij toch beter weten, en John leest ook nederlands !

[ShawnG]

I would also like to fly in some ORBX european scenery,  or to be more precise I'd like UK, Ireland, Scandinavia, and the Alps at least.  I think JV has said many times that He'd like to do it as well.  But at the same time, there's a lot of other places on the Globe I'd like to fly as well, and ORBX can't do it all.  What really needs to happen is for European and other designers to realize that the bar for scenery design has been raised, and to raise their game to meet it.  I think this is starting to happen with things like the SWED2011 project, and Godzone's VLC, and others.  ORBX themselves just started as some guys who thought their area of the globe was under-represented in FS who decided to do something about it, they knew no one was going to do Oz right, so they did it themselves.

If a lot of other devs decide to do this grade of scenery, we all win.  and we don't have to wait for one small team to do the entire earth

[keeszondag]

Agree with Shawn and I'm leaving the discussion as it is.

[rockliffe]

Sure, Orbx could do all the real intersting places, with mountains, lakes and so forth. Spain Switzerland, Austria etc etc, there is one problem though.... I'd be bloody broke!!!!! 

[Matthew Kane]

Finish USA/Canada and New Zealand first please.....

The beauty of Australia is it is complete and it has no limitations. New Zealand will be a nice destination from Australia when it is released.

I would like to see Europe as well but wouldn't want to have to fly from Seattle to Europe because the rest of the continent is not done. I would rather fly from Toronto or New York to Europe with ORBX scenery.

I like that they started west and are working east. Currently I could fly from YMML to KSEA or CYVR in my PMDG 747 which is great. Hopefully everything is completed to the east coast then they can start Europe starting from the west as well. Then I could do Toronto or New York flights to England or Paris to start, and eventually further east.

Hopefully someday....Good things come to those who wait 

[rockliffe]

The bottom line........ let's have the whole globe! LOL  ;D

[Magnus Almgren]

Yes I'm on for the world- let's orbx it!!!

Well with regards to what aerosoft is doing to blend in to a possible EU-ORbx - I don't think that orbx team even would approve to the quality of aerosoft. Also to maximize the EU scenery they have to come up with some orbx quality airports. Although I don't know how much info they would need for that. I really would like to know how they research an airport... Is orbx a community of developers around the globe??? I mean if orbx ia located in Australia - who does then the research for example NA Concrete???

I would be glad to help for any project in EU!!!

[CoolP]

Maybe you guys can suggest some more focused places. Europe is quite big and diverted in case of the landscape to be build.

I'm very happy with the current pay and freeware around and it wouldn't be the best idea to try to outperform or whatever other devs approaches. I personally like the diversity, it's a bit of the soul of flight sim addons.

If you for example look at Austria or Switzerland, there are very good addons available. Germany gets covered too as the largest part of the UK does.

The Netherlands have got great freeware, Spain has, France gets covered by another dev, Denmark, Norway and Finnland have some bigger freeware projects running or available, Italy has some fine Ozx stuff, Balearic Islands are Aerosoft stuff again, and so on.

Eastern Europe is completely "dark" in case of area addons, Greece doesn't have a coverage, Ireland only has some airports done, Portugal is lacking of details, Turkish scenery is only partially done, Sweden might be a nice area, the Adriatic Sea has some places too, although Slovenia was done very good as far as I can see.

So we have to pinpoint some special areas that should be done the Orbx way.

[Magnus Almgren]

I totally agree to you Coolp - there are some really good areas allready covered. Although the mismatch of the sceneries disturbs me. What I miss is to have 1 looking Europe - from north to south. As mentioned in my previous comments I don't like to see for example Germany in different green shades. It simply doesn't look good and as well it drags enormous power at the moment. I will look into the freeware versions you have mentioned when back home again.

In the meantime I would whish Scandinavia. Not just becouse of that I'm Swedish but just becouse of the diversity of the landscape. Summer and aggrecultural scenery in the south, almost wasteland looking areas in the north, beutiful mountains and fjords in Norway. In my opinion that would be a perfect Orbx 1st step into EU. Also the area is not fully loaded with towns and villages as for example in Germany or France. And can you imagine Finland withe thousand of lakes to land on dropping of imaginative sport fishermens.

It is just a thought!

Anyone else up for whishes and why? Please write!

[tim_A]

The mismatch between sceneries bothers me much less than not having scenery at all. I would much rather Orbx concentrated on increasing total global coverage by developing virgin areas, rather than producing "yet another Germany" or "yet another England" etc. Done is done, and while there are places that haven't got any addon scenery at all, I feel they would be much more worthwhile targets.

I feel exactly the same way about the multitude of "yet another cub/PA28/737" aircraft that are out there -- while there are so many really interesting and worthwhile aircraft that have never been modelled.

[ArnyLitheman]

I agree with most of you...and I live in Germany. The European ground is already released in a very good way with GEX and UTE, only a good mesh (I mean good when I say...exactly AND suited to the FSX, not only geological exactly, but then with display errors in FSX like FS Global) is still missing. The density of good airports is still quite low, but Aerosoft learned (not least under the pressure of ORBX) and sells very good airports like EDDM, just for example, now. Martin from Fly Tampa made LOWW and SimWings started after a longer sleep with their coverage of the Canaries, Gibraltar and LEBL.

Strange to say why it took a very long time until the developement for good FSX products started and so I changed from FS9 late in 2010, years after its rollout, but now I see some strange developement. It`s worth to mention...ORBX kicked it on by delievering sceneries on a new level in Australia...much miles away from my origin "home" in Flightsim. Obviously the market is there to make the work cost effective.

I think the way should be maintained...good sceneries for Australia and the American westcoast. Europe (I miss specially the great FISD and Finland at winter in my sim, but the ISD sceneries, too, and of course a lot of German Airfields in my region) will be covered by other enthusiastic scenery-developers, motivated by the challenge of ORBX! 

Hopefully I produced a good English now...it`s not that easy for a 45 years old German after 10 beers...cheers!    

[gheeD]

Yes, i also miss the great FISD products also... But when i look at my FS9 now... Omg. It is so ugly.

Still better than FSX default airports tho...  Atleast FISD has released a Finland X "full scenery" pack, with landclass, mesh some custom textures also. Also first FSX made airport EFOU Oulu was released year or two ago. Then there is a quick fixes from main Helsinki-Vantaa producer, to make FS9 version work atleast acceptable in FSX.

So Finland has stuff quite good, but atleast the finnish community misses all the other finnish airports deeply. Which is the reason why most finnish simmers have stayed with FS9.

But i also agree, there is not much stuff made for eastern-europe, which would be nice to see. As the countryside over there is pretty beautiful, most of the time anyway. Aerosoft has modeled some of the major airports, but theres only airport sceneries, atleast that i know of.

[CoolP]

Do I see some Scandinavian fans around here looking for some sites being made the Orbx way? Well, count me in, guys. 

Although I named some European places currently being "dark" in case of scenery releases, I see this huge and demanding area as the one with the biggest potential to be done like PNW and things like it.

Although we're talking about Europe here, I'd like to add that e. g. South America has some great potential too and doesn't get covered until now, except for some airports I think. I own one or two of those dangerous or challenging ones, great fun by the way.

But, you are right, we should focus in this thread and therefor forget about the American continent for now.

The Ground Environment X or Ultimate Terrain X titles are fine and exceptionally good when you compare their area and the value they give, but they don't come close to a detailed view on European landscapes so far. So while one would have a mentioned consistent view across Europe using them, he would find details to be missing.

It should therefor be an area where no (very detailed) payware and no nice freeware would get harmed or has to be outperformed.

I agree on seeing Sweden being a good candidate there.  Except from a nice location and variety, you won't see bigger areas already being done in detail.

You are not too far away from other major scenery releases there, so a flight to e. g. the UK or Germany won't be a problem then.

I'm aware that the devs already will have made up their plans and that we are discussion very fictional things here. The business truth will also play a huge part as you have to sell e. g. the Swedish area to people from across the whole planet and it therefor has to be more than unique to have success. But, I'm honest when I say that those market variables are way off my competence, so let's stay nice and fictional for a while. 

mangotango, just a side note. I totally agree with you about the current German area addons. The airports are mostly fun to fly to, I bought Munich lately and I'm extremely pleased with it so far, but as far as the photographic illustration of Germany itself is concerned, I spent too much money on too bad looking green shades together with a big appetite for hardware resources.

That's no reason to wish for another dev taking up the country but definitely one to watch more closely before buying large areas in the future.

[Plexi1]

I definitely want to see Orbx make an addon for Europe. I do have some addons for  Europe already but they are not compareable with the quality of Orbx addons. Orbx is THE standard for me if it comes to outstanding visual quality.

So I hope to see Europe somewhere in the future

[rockliffe]

I agree with everything that has been said However, in the meantime, if you haven't already got them, I can thoroughly recommend UTX and GEX Europe, fantastic pair of add-ons. Sure, in my opinion, they will never replace Orbx scenery, but until we do have something form the guys, they make a very good alternative 

[Tauro]

There is no viable alternative to ORBX.

Europe needs ORBX, so best start in the middle.

e.g.: Bavaria Alps 

*translatetd by Google

[gheeD]

Do I see some Scandinavian fans around here looking for some sites being made the Orbx way? Well, count me in, guys. 

Although I named some European places currently being "dark" in case of scenery releases, I see this huge and demanding area as the one with the biggest potential to be done like PNW and things like it.

Although we're talking about Europe here, I'd like to add that e. g. South America has some great potential too and doesn't get covered until now, except for some airports I think. I own one or two of those dangerous or challenging ones, great fun by the way.

But, you are right, we should focus in this thread and therefor forget about the American continent for now.

The Ground Environment X or Ultimate Terrain X titles are fine and exceptionally good when you compare their area and the value they give, but they don't come close to a detailed view on European landscapes so far. So while one would have a mentioned consistent view across Europe using them, he would find details to be missing.

It should therefor be an area where no (very detailed) payware and no nice freeware would get harmed or has to be outperformed.

I agree on seeing Sweden being a good candidate there.  Except from a nice location and variety, you won't see bigger areas already being done in detail.

You are not too far away from other major scenery releases there, so a flight to e. g. the UK or Germany won't be a problem then.

I'm aware that the devs already will have made up their plans and that we are discussion very fictional things here. The business truth will also play a huge part as you have to sell e. g. the Swedish area to people from across the whole planet and it therefor has to be more than unique to have success. But, I'm honest when I say that those market variables are way off my competence, so let's stay nice and fictional for a while. 

mangotango, just a side note. I totally agree with you about the current German area addons. The airports are mostly fun to fly to, I bought Munich lately and I'm extremely pleased with it so far, but as far as the photographic illustration of Germany itself is concerned, I spent too much money on too bad looking green shades together with a big appetite for hardware resources.

That's no reason to wish for another dev taking up the country but definitely one to watch more closely before buying large areas in the future.

Good points, CoolP. About sweden, there is one freeware scenery in the making, using the same idea ORBX is using, generating generic ground textures from aerial images, and applying that and autogen precisely to where it belongs. I guess it is not allowed to post it in here, but a thread about it can be found from avsim forum. (Sweden X or something like that)

IMO, if you're looking for places with least amount of existing addons, it would be centered around Eastern Europe, down to whole Africa, and most parts of middle-east.

[AndreaD]

I second this one! I love Australia but I live in Italy: I am willing to pre pay now for an Orbx Italy. Can't even start to imagine what the guys downunder could do.

[Mithrin]

More precisely Scandinavia needs Orbx treatment, though it's a huge area.

[Magnus Almgren]

When UTX and GEX came I was the first one buying it and I love them. It gave me for the very first time a good flight in scandinavia. It looks good and the landclass is acceptable. Although it lacks te final extra touch that would bring it to a top class version. But it is not comparable to ORBX.

I'm following Swed2011 and the freeware(?) scenery looks good. But I would like to anyway get Norway Orbx'ed and I'm more then willing to pay for the whole Scandinavia and as well for the whole Europe.

I would even prepay for any EU developments from ORBX.

Coolp,

Yes I totall agree. You pay tons of money for Germany, download it, install it, exciting to fly it... And FSX gives you first a mediocre looking landscape. Hardly no autogen, villages and towns basically not showing up due to power issues. And after an hour flying the whole flight has to be ended due to framerates of 3-5.

This is absolutely not acceptable. So beware all who would like to buy it... Although there are some areas which I really love and that is the northern islands, these are lovely and very well done. Love flying there from island to island. But still it is not Orbx...

Anyhow - home in a week and will try installing Gex and UTX again to compare.

[CoolP]

Well, I haven't had that strong loss of fps in Germany but there surely is a bigger impact although the things that are shown aren't very dense. What really holds me back from any further investment there are the different shades of colors.

If Google Earth shows them like this, this isn't a problem because it's free and fits its purpose. If a high priced flight sim package looks like that, I'm starting to think about other places to spend my money. Can't really say that I'm disappointed but I'm far away from being enthusiastic too. But I'm getting off topic here. 

I doubt that posting freeware links will be forbidden here but I could be wrong and of course we should mainly discuss Orbx related items.

Therefor I really support you guys wishing for an European progress of future Orbx activities. My favorite spots were mentioned (Scandinavia, mainly Sweden for various reasons mentioned) and I double your sight about the other nice and currently "dark" places in Europe.

I had to laugh (with good intentions) about the pre pay will and yes, Italy would be a fine one too. I hope you already use the Ozx jewels there. Otherwise I would suggest a view here http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/1-ozx-scenery/ and really recommend donating thereafter.

We have some double or triple coverage on the big area addons (UTX, GEX, OpenVFR come to my mind, some of them can be combined of course) which even cover the mentioned "dark" eastern countries, but close-look details can't be found there so far.

Thanks for that tip for Swed2011. I've found something on Avsim and one is stating the freeware status there so my previously stated wish for Sweden might drop then as there will be coverage of some kind. I'm looking for light on the currently dark spots. Orbx stuff would be best but can not be achieved within a certain amount of time. We should be aware of this.