Some help with the specs of a PC I wish to buy?

[TheAviator]

Hi, I hope I've found the right section of the forum to post this in 

Anyways, it's about time for a PC update and I've been thinking that instead of going with Dell again I might be able to get a custom-built PC from another company for a lower price. We plan on keeping the keyboard, monitor and speakers however.

So I came across Mwave, an Aussie company as I understand that builds custom PC's. Has anyone bought from these guys before? They seem alright.

Well here are my specs. The machine comes in at just under A$2000, but we are willing to spend some more on extra parts or upgrades to certain parts. I would be grateful if I could read your opinions and suggestions. The main goal of this PC is to run FSX really well.

Case: Antec Three Hundred Gaming Case

Processor: Intel Core i7 950 Processor

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R ATX

RAM: Corsair Dominator GT 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 (apparently this is 2000mhz)

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 480, 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB (not too interested in SSD's, although I might upgrade to a 1.5 or 2TB)

Sound Card: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro Series

Power Supply: Corsair TX 650W Power Supply

A few extra q's.

1) Will a 650W power supply be enough, or should it be higher?

2) As I understand, FSX along with some other programs will only ever use 4GB of RAM. Is this a good reason for getting 6GB of fast RAM than say, 8 or 12GB of slower RAM?

3) Should I get liquid cooling or opt for a better CPU fan instead of the stock fan?

Thanks in advance

[Tim Harris]

The i7's use triple channel ram so the options are 3 - 6 - 12 GB, I use 12 for photoshop work, but you would only need 6GB for running FSX

Recommend you get a 850w PSU though in case you want to run 2 GTX480s for Nvidia 'surround' in the future

If you can... get an extra smaller HD to install FSX on separately, and preferably a Vraptor or a SSD

CPU cooler (if your going to OC) Noctua u12 or a thermo 120 (forget the correct names, google them up)

[Hotspot]

So I came across Mwave, an Aussie company as I understand that builds custom PC's. Has anyone bought from these guys before? They seem alright.

Having bought components only (not assembled PC) from Mwave, I have found them reliable and quick, and will continue to buy from them.

[porsche]

I have the I7-920 overclocked to 3.4. Works very well and is less expensive than the 950. Run it with the Nvidia 285, 6 gigs ram and a Raptor as the main drive. Had the system a year and no complaints. When the 6 &/or 8 core become less expensive I'll consider an upgrade but not til then.

Dave

[Iain Emms]

Yes looks like a good one the only thing is i would get a more powerful psu, As for the price differance between the 930 and the 950 here in blighty the 950 is only around thirty to fourty pounds more expensive i have a 930 myself but with the price now being so close i would stick with your 950.

cheers

Iain

[TheAviator]

Thanks for all the help

I've upgraded the Power Supply thing to 750W. I don't plan on making any upgrades to this machine, usually we just buy the machine, use as is for 3yrs and then replace.

On Tim's advice I think we'll get the "Noctua NH-U12P SE2 All-In-One Performance CPU Cooler". I don't think we'll OC but at least it will give us the ability to.

Also wondering with the hard drive, would it be better to keep two 1TB hard drives or one 2TB hard drive? Pretty much the same price either way.

I have a few random questions too. I'm not great with all this specs stuff.

1) Does a motherboard come with the back panel with the USB slots and all that?

2) Is it important what case you choose? I have chosen this one because it seems ok and is cheap.

[Tim Harris]

Separate HD for FSX means you will be free of the permissions issue some people have when FSX is installed to the default location, and easier to defrag just your FSX stuff then

1: yes, the back panel is included with the mother board

2: yes important to get good airflow, the Antec 300 is fine, another good one is the CM690, or HAF932 (all fairly cheap too)

[alainneedle1]

I assume these are your rams...  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145318

Timing is not that great....and you will need a high OC to make good use of these rams at 2000MHz assuming you can get there....the other bad side is the high QPI/VTT voltage you will need to run them at 2000MHz...about 1.45v(4.4GHz) to start with, and you will still stay with 8-9-8-24 (you may also try to lower the timing to 7-7-7-24 at 1920 > 1930MHz blck at 161))

You will be better off with these if you are not going to oc that high....  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226121  these are 1600MHz but the timing is a lot better = better perf. for FSX.

Now if you absolutly want to run 2000MHz I will get these...  Super talent    WX2000UX6G7  these are like mine and they are rock solid (with the proper settings) but I can't find them anymore......search on google.

[TheAviator]

I assume these are your rams...  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145318

Timing is not that great....and you will need a high OC to make good use of these rams at 2000MHz assuming you can get there....the other bad side is the high QPI/VTT voltage you will need to run them at 2000MHz...about 1.45v(4.4GHz) to start with, and you will still stay with 8-9-8-24 (you may also try to lower the timing to 7-7-7-24 at 1920 > 1930MHz blck at 161))

You will be better off with these if you are not going to oc that high....  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226121  these are 1600MHz but the timing is a lot better = better perf. for FSX.

Now if you absolutly want to run 2000MHz I will get these...  Super talent    WX2000UX6G7  these are like mine and they are rock solid (with the proper settings) but I can't find them anymore......search on google.

Thanks for this Alain.

So is it better that the timing values are lower or higher? They have these available...

1600 at 9-9-9-24

1600 at 8-8-8-24

1600 at 7-7-7-24

2000 at 8-9-8-24

[alainneedle1]

I Stephen,

If you want to run 2000MHz the best timing is 7-7-7-21, something I did not tell is to run them at 1T...some rams can do 2000MHz at 7-7-7-21 but they are rated at 2T (default) like mine so it's up to you to asjust the bios to be able to run them at 1T.

Not always possible a 1T cause your rams will propably be unstable so you'll have to adjust some voltage and QPI/VTT voltage also....remember this... overclocking is a hit and miss and some memory don't play well with some board....been able to run your rams at the rated speed is the most frustrating part as far as overclocking for me if you ask.

Here is something I pasted from another forum, this is from Nick....this will explain what I was telling you.

SAMPLES OF MEMORY SPEED/TIMING

Here is a list of MAX memory timing per speed a user should strive for.. lower than posted is better and there are memory product out there that run lower timing than posted.. they are typically expensive and that is what you pay for

DDR2 800 4-4-4

DDR2 1066 5-5-5

DDR3 1333 6-6-6 (1st or 2nd Generation)

DDR3 1600 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation)

DDR3 1800/1866 8-8-8 (1st or 2nd Generation)

DDR3 2000 (and up) 9-9-9 (1st or 2nd Generation)

That being said here are the values a user SHOULD look for in order to obtain highest FSX performance with respect to CPU/Memory communication

DDR2 800 3-3-3

DDR2 1066 4-4-4

DDR3 1333 5-5-5 (1st or 2nd Generation)

DDR3 1600 6-6-6 (1st or 2nd Generation)

DDR3 1800/1866 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation)

Note: 1800/1866 is really useless compared to 1600 with respect to the right memory timing. If a user wishes to run very high memory speed, opt for 2000 with tighter timing especially running i7. 1st generation DDR3 has issues with the northbridge running large amounts of memory (2x2GB or more). i7 D0 stepping processors and the x58 chipset do not have those issues but still typically requires a higher QPI/DRAM (over 1.37v) to accomplish which can be dangerous to the life of a processor.

DDR3 2000 7-7-7 (1st or 2nd Generation) 8-8-8 can be used however 7-7-7 is FAR better.

[TheAviator]

Thanks very much Alain. I will definitely be making use of this great info when I'm putting together my machine

[alainneedle1]

Thanks very much Alain. I will definitely be making use of this great info when I'm putting together my machine

No problem Stephen, now the only other thing you should buy if you can afford it is a dedicated SSD for FSX like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348 this is the one I have for my OS and trust me you'll see a difference......be sure to use the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver if you do....

Good luck with your new PC.

[TheAviator]

OK, now the GTX580 is out I think I am pretty close to making the purchase. I just wanted to post the specs here for comment

CASE - Antec Three Hundred Tower Gaming Case

CPU - Intel Core i7 950, 3.06GHz

MOTHERBOARD - Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R

RAM - OCZ 6GB (3x 2GB) Reaper HPC Triple Channel Kit, PC3 12800 (1600MHz) DDR3, 240-pin DIMM, Unbuffered, CL 7-7-7-24 (these timings sound good. The Mushkin Redlines that Alain suggested are unavailable)

GPU - Gigabyte GeForce GTX580 Video Card

HDD - Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB Desktop Hard Drive (I haven't taken an SSD or VelociRaptor, I thought I will just see how this goes and if I don't like it I could always add one later on)

OPTICAL DRIVE - Samsung SH-B083L/RSBP 8X BD-ROM / DVD-W Combo SATA Internal Optical Drive

SOUND CARD - Creative Labs X-Fi Xtreme Titanium

PSU - Antec 750W TruePower ATX Power Supply (Is this enough? I don't plan on overclocking anything)

OS - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium, 64-Bit

CPU FAN - Noctua NH-U12P SE2 All-In-One Performance CPU Cooler

Now I just need to confirm that all these parts are compatible. Are there any websites or anything that can help with this or should I just go to the manufacturer's page for all these various parts?

I also hope I've got enough RAM for FSX. I don't really do much stuff on the PC other than playing FSX, using office, internet, email etc so hopefully this should be enough.

[alainneedle1]

I'll go with a 800W + PSU just to be on the safe side, add the fans and your sound card and you'r to close to the max W look here...  http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html

I will also try to find rams with a better timing.....I'm sure they have 1600MHz at 6-8-6-24 somewhere?  Do they have one of these set...the first one is the best at 6-8-6-20  http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006127%20600006076%20600006155&IsNodeId=1&name=6

As for the rest of the hardware I think you'r well set, again a dedicated hard drive just for FSX will be the best down the road...

[TheAviator]

I'll go with a 800W + PSU just to be on the safe side, add the fans and your sound card and you'r to close to the max W look here...  http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html

I will also try to find rams with a better timing.....I'm sure they have 1600MHz at 6-8-6-24 somewhere?  Do they have one of these set...the first one is the best at 6-8-6-20  http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007611%20600006127%20600006076%20600006155&IsNodeId=1&name=6

As for the rest of the hardware I think you'r well set, again a dedicated hard drive just for FSX will be the best down the road...

I found them

So do you think those Mushkin Radioactive's are the best? It says 6-8-6-24. They are also stocking the black mushkins and the G.Skill

I will probably upgrade the PSU to an 850W on your suggestion. As for the hard drive, you are probably right but at this stage I might just try with these new Sata3 drives and I can always add a dedicated drive later on

[alainneedle1]

Any of the Mushkin will do at 6-8-6-24, better than 7-7-7-24, my DDR2 rams were G.Skill and they were rock solid so if you feel like it the G.Skill are a good choice also at 6-8-6-20, make sure you have enough clearance under your CPU cooler since they have tall heatsink.

Good move with the 850W PSU, make sure it's a good rated one.

Good luck with your new toy.

[TheAviator]

OK, if I was to get an SSD and make it my D drive, would I have any problems with installing FSX there and making it like a games only drive?

The 1TB drive would remain the C drive and have the OS and stuff on it.

This way I could use the SSD purely for the files and not have space taken up by the OS, program files etc.

[alainneedle1]

OK, if I was to get an SSD and make it my D drive, would I have any problems with installing FSX there and making it like a games only drive?

The 1TB drive would remain the C drive and have the OS and stuff on it.

This way I could use the SSD purely for the files and not have space taken up by the OS, program files etc.

No problems at all.....