ESSA Stockholm-Arlanda V2. A brief update on the progress.

[Marcus Nyberg]

G'day everyone,

 

For those of you not following our project progress page at Facebook I figured it was a good time to make a brief update post.

If you are not unfamiliar with the page and is interested in the progress of this project I recommend checking it out. I aim to share something weekly and it's a nice way for me to keep in touch with all of you!

 

Here is a link if you want to check it out:

Click here to go to the project page

 

As for the progress:

 

First of all I want to share that Jetstream Designs joined me earlier this fall on this project. I assume most of you are familiar with his work (he got a lot of his work on the Orbx store that I really recommend checking out). He has made incredible sceneries such as Paris-Orly, Toulouse, Nantes, Linate, the list goes on. An incredible talent that share my view on visuals and quality and is bringing a lot to the table.  

 

Regarding the construction progress we are moving forward quickly at the moment. The more time consuming tasks like the terminal areas are locking in on almost one pier per week now with T5A/B/F probably finishing up before end of this month, which leaves work with T2 & T4 before that whole complex is ready. A lot of the airside buildings are at a late stage in the process. I spent quite a bit of time on some new custom GSE items earlier this fall that will be introduced at ESSA and some were introduced in the ESMS update recently released. We got quite a bit left on landside things and the less noticeable building objects, which should be a quick turn around in comparsion to the other things we are working on. 

 

The ground is finishing up and we landed incredible ortho imagery that combined with the updated high-res mesh and our new ground texture set is really a huge difference (in our humble opinion at least!) to the current offerings. I hope to showcase that in the next few weeks.

 

I know a few of you are wondering about the P3D and X-Plane version, those will be looked at once this is complete and released and as long as there is a market for it at that point they will be converted.

 

Here are some screenshots from Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, please note it's all a work in progress with a lot of objects missing, and things might change.

 

Hope you enjoy!

Cheers,

Marcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DanielFall]

Looks absolutely stunning Marcus!

[Marcus Nyberg]

1 hour ago, DanielFall said:

Looks absolutely stunning Marcus!

 

Thank you Daniel

 

[Flyer2022]

The progress is just amazing, looking forward to see what you guys have come with!

A small question about the control tower - will it have a modeled interior? From the previews the windows appear to be opaque, but at the same time the tower was one of the earliest screenshots provided. Perhaps the things have changed now.

A side question about the other Nordic project, ENGM (I know that it is taken by Finn Hasen, and not you - but maybe you have some info about it). A few months ago I discovered that Aerosoft has shown some previews of ENGM, that looks really promising. Because of that I was wonering if ENGM is still planned. I think some competition is important, but when there are two airports of the very similar good quality it becomes really tough Perhaps you could consider to focus on some other Norwegian airports like ENZV or ENBR?
 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Flyer2022

[Marcus Nyberg]

6 minutes ago, Flyer2022 said:

The progress is just amazing, looking forward to see what you guys have come with!

A small question about the control tower - will it have a modeled interior? From the previews the windows appear to be opaque, but at the same time the tower was one of the earliest screenshots provided. Perhaps the things have changed now.

A side question about the other Nordic project, ENGM (I know that it is taken by Finn Hasen, and not you - but maybe you have some info about it). A few months ago I discovered that Aerosoft has shown some previews of ENGM, that looks really promising. Because of that I was wonering if ENGM is still planned. I think some competition is important, but when there are two airports of the very similar good quality it becomes really tough Perhaps you could consider to focus on some other Norwegian airports like ENZV or ENBR?
 

 

Thank you!

We have a basic interior for the tower that is not in the screenshots, I'm yet to see how we progress with that. It's likely that we add a little bit of details in there at least

 

As for ENGM I'll leave it up to Finn to make any comments on the current progress but the project is alive and well  

 

[stiletto2]

Beautiful!  Thanks for all your hard work!

 

 

[wain71]

superb, even though it's WIP it still looks stunning...

[Marcus Nyberg]

1 hour ago, stiletto2 said:

Beautiful!  Thanks for all your hard work!

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, wain71 said:

superb, even though it's WIP it still looks stunning...

 

Thanks mates!

 

[carlosqr]

Amazing shots, I'm sure it'll end perfect

Whenever you want an apprentice to pour all your knowledge on, count me in please

Cheers

Carlos

[John Tavendale]

Absolutely stunning. Very much looking forward to this one.

[Socata]

On 21/11/2022 at 8:05, Marcus Nyberg said:

G'day everyone,

 

For those of you not following our project progress page at Facebook I figured it was a good time to make a brief update post.

If you are not unfamiliar with the page and is interested in the progress of this project I recommend checking it out. I aim to share something weekly and it's a nice way for me to keep in touch with all of you!

 

Here is a link if you want to check it out:

Click here to go to the project page

 

As for the progress:

 

First of all I want to share that Jetstream Designs joined me earlier this fall on this project. I assume most of you are familiar with his work (he got a lot of his work on the Orbx store that I really recommend checking out). He has made incredible sceneries such as Paris-Orly, Toulouse, Nantes, Linate, the list goes on. An incredible talent that share my view on visuals and quality and is bringing a lot to the table.  

 

Regarding the construction progress we are moving forward quickly at the moment. The more time consuming tasks like the terminal areas are locking in on almost one pier per week now with T5A/B/F probably finishing up before end of this month, which leaves work with T2 & T4 before that whole complex is ready. A lot of the airside buildings are at a late stage in the process. I spent quite a bit of time on some new custom GSE items earlier this fall that will be introduced at ESSA and some were introduced in the ESMS update recently released. We got quite a bit left on landside things and the less noticeable building objects, which should be a quick turn around in comparsion to the other things we are working on. 

 

The ground is finishing up and we landed incredible ortho imagery that combined with the updated high-res mesh and our new ground texture set is really a huge difference (in our humble opinion at least!) to the current offerings. I hope to showcase that in the next few weeks.

 

I know a few of you are wondering about the P3D and X-Plane version, those will be looked at once this is complete and released and as long as there is a market for it at that point they will be converted.

 

Here are some screenshots from Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, please note it's all a work in progress with a lot of objects missing, and things might change.

 

Hope you enjoy!

Cheers,

Marcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your work is simply impressive!
My respect for you

[Nadeem]

Looking very good! I cannot wait for the P3D version! Much needed update please! 

 

All the best @Marcus Nyberg

[Metthos]

I have enjoyed all the Marcus Airports in P3D and the ones already in MSFS. I will make sure I enjoy this one too. Marcus scenery has been a worthwhile investment that has enhanced my enjoyment of FS.
Skilled developer.  

[Marcus Nyberg]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:41 PM, carlosqr said:

Amazing shots, I'm sure it'll end perfect

Whenever you want an apprentice to pour all your knowledge on, count me in please

Cheers

Carlos

 

On 11/22/2022 at 9:40 AM, John Tavendale said:

Absolutely stunning. Very much looking forward to this one.

 

On 11/22/2022 at 3:02 PM, Nadeem said:

Looking very good! I cannot wait for the P3D version! Much needed update please! 

 

All the best @Marcus Nyberg

 

On 11/22/2022 at 2:51 PM, Socata said:

Your work is simply impressive!
My respect for you

 

Thanks guys!

 

[avduarri]

Hello,

 

The jetways will work or they will be static?

The scenery looks fantastic. Congrats.

[Marcus Nyberg]

4 hours ago, avduarri said:

Hello,

 

The jetways will work or they will be static?

The scenery looks fantastic. Congrats.

Will work

[Flyer2022]

I saw the latest post about the changes regarding the interiors honestly I am a bit sad, since personally speaking I really enjoy exploring the interiors prior and after the flight.
However, I do understand that to have the interiors modeled at such a big airport like Arlanda would require a lot of time and some considerable management to make the performance acceptable. Still, I am not exactly understand how writing the interiors off the roadmap came when the airport already has taken its shape. Hopefully it was a a technical reason rather than the idea "that ratio and focus (of interiors vs air-side) should be the opposite". I think that the Sim has revolutionized the idea of what flightsimming and the add-on airports should look like and seeing the airports modeled from tarmac up to the tiny bar inside the duty-free area is something truly remarkable. The same goes to the fully modeled aircraft cabins.

But what I really do find questionable is seeing the issue with the people and developers who do enjoy having the modeled interiors. Sure, everyone is entitled to its own opinion - even the opinion about the product development outside of they own.  At the same time I feel like this comment encourages gatekeeping and elitism that's the Flightsim community (the same valid for pretty much every community) been known for so long. Unfortunately some people really have taken this as a some religious standard talking of what and who  shouldn't be in the Sim. I don't really think it's necessary to mention "the vermin" every time when a developer decides to not include the modeled cabin or interior. Simply saying what the add-on will be focused on will be enough. It gets even worse and uglier when someone is mentioned "Fly by AI" feature, which personally I find quite amazing in the times when I simply want a relaxing passenger experience. Let's just enjoy the Sim instead of fighting with people who use the Sim in a different ways.

Hopefully my comment didn't came as a complain. I know I might be a lone wolf there, but all I wanted is to give my five cents as someone from a different experience.

[wolfko]

As stunning and awsome all these interiors are looking which are currently added by many developers, I prefer it when developers put their emphasis and time on the really important areas of an airport which are

1) outside airside

2) outside landside

 

It seems funny to me personally seeing more and more ads and previews of aiports showcasing almost more interior than outside pics (not valid for Orbx).

This development is pointing in the wrong direction. It might fit a passenger sim, but not a flight sim.

 

 

[F737MAX]

6 hours ago, wolfko said:

As stunning and awsome all these interiors are looking which are currently added by many developers, I prefer it when developers put their emphasis and time on the really important areas of an airport which are

1) outside airside

2) outside landside

 

It seems funny to me personally seeing more and more ads and previews of aiports showcasing almost more interior than outside pics (not valid for Orbx).

This development is pointing in the wrong direction. It might fit a passenger sim, but not a flight sim.

 

I'd say it's the opposite.

From the cockpit of an airliner sat at the gate, I'm going to see *far more* of the interior of a glass-fronted terminal than I'm going to see of the landside part of the airport, usually hidden from view by said terminal building.

[wolfko]

3 hours ago, F737MAX said:

 

I'd say it's the opposite.

From the cockpit of an airliner sat at the gate, I'm going to see *far more* of the interior of a glass-fronted terminal than I'm going to see of the landside part of the airport, usually hidden from view by said terminal building.

 

For the small gances you get from the terminal interior while sitting on the flight deck not the whole interior has to be modelled in that detail which is currently en vogue. There are interior areas modeled which you will never see from the cockpit. The bit of the interior which you can see from the cockpit has already been included in legacy airport without loosing the focus on the essentials.

Of course outside landside areas can be seen from the stand at many airports, also during taxiing and out of the corner of the eye during finals.

I have nothing against this stunning interior being modelled. What I do not like is that developing the interior in such details extremely prolongs the waiting time for the release of a new airport.

[Marcus Nyberg]

On 12/11/2022 at 12:25 AM, Flyer2022 said:

I saw the latest post about the changes regarding the interiors honestly I am a bit sad, since personally speaking I really enjoy exploring the interiors prior and after the flight.
However, I do understand that to have the interiors modeled at such a big airport like Arlanda would require a lot of time and some considerable management to make the performance acceptable. Still, I am not exactly understand how writing the interiors off the roadmap came when the airport already has taken its shape. Hopefully it was a a technical reason rather than the idea "that ratio and focus (of interiors vs air-side) should be the opposite". I think that the Sim has revolutionized the idea of what flightsimming and the add-on airports should look like and seeing the airports modeled from tarmac up to the tiny bar inside the duty-free area is something truly remarkable. The same goes to the fully modeled aircraft cabins.

But what I really do find questionable is seeing the issue with the people and developers who do enjoy having the modeled interiors. Sure, everyone is entitled to its own opinion - even the opinion about the product development outside of they own.  At the same time I feel like this comment encourages gatekeeping and elitism that's the Flightsim community (the same valid for pretty much every community) been known for so long. Unfortunately some people really have taken this as a some religious standard talking of what and who  shouldn't be in the Sim. I don't really think it's necessary to mention "the vermin" every time when a developer decides to not include the modeled cabin or interior. Simply saying what the add-on will be focused on will be enough. It gets even worse and uglier when someone is mentioned "Fly by AI" feature, which personally I find quite amazing in the times when I simply want a relaxing passenger experience. Let's just enjoy the Sim instead of fighting with people who use the Sim in a different ways.

Hopefully my comment didn't came as a complain. I know I might be a lone wolf there, but all I wanted is to give my five cents as someone from a different experience.

 

On 12/11/2022 at 7:38 PM, F737MAX said:

 

I'd say it's the opposite.

From the cockpit of an airliner sat at the gate, I'm going to see *far more* of the interior of a glass-fronted terminal than I'm going to see of the landside part of the airport, usually hidden from view by said terminal building.

 

On 12/11/2022 at 11:33 PM, wolfko said:

 

For the small gances you get from the terminal interior while sitting on the flight deck not the whole interior has to be modelled in that detail which is currently en vogue. There are interior areas modeled which you will never see from the cockpit. The bit of the interior which you can see from the cockpit has already been included in legacy airport without loosing the focus on the essentials.

Of course outside landside areas can be seen from the stand at many airports, also during taxiing and out of the corner of the eye during finals.

I have nothing against this stunning interior being modelled. What I do not like is that developing the interior in such details extremely prolongs the waiting time for the release of a new airport.

 

Hey guys,

 

Interesting to read your comments. I'll just add my thoughts quickly.

So the reason I mentioned it will not be high-res interiors is the fact that I mentioned earlier that it was my intention to have those included in a state "where you could have a virtual beer doing planespotting"

 

I'm trying to be transparent with the project so people following the progress will not be dissapointed when it's released. Just balancing the expectations really.

For this project I've had the idea to be include you all on the project, both for my own sake of course, but also so if there are inputs they can be shared early in the process and everyone can be at least a little bit included in what we are building. Then there might be situations like now when I have to back-step on something I've said would be included earlier. Personally I think honesty and transparency could be a nice thing in this community so you all know what you are getting for the money and hopefully understand why some things are included and others not. And to me trying to step down a few steps on the ambition for the interiors meant more time for other objects, which I found to be a great thing. I'm sorry if that was received another way.

 

The reason why I'm back-stepping on the interiors a bit is not a technical reason.To me it's mainly about time management and where to put the focus. I have to take in what the community wants (otherwise it's hard making a living doing this obviously!), but somewhere along the road I need to think about what kind of scenery I would enjoy myself. What I really enjoy is clutter, dense messy airside with tons of things and photorealistic textures. I'm not a PBR guy (even if we are including it where we find neccesary), I rarely explore interiors and I still bake shadows into textures. My style and workflow is suddenly old school!  

And what I discovered was that it takes so much time making interiors if you want it to be correct. Kudos to all the devs that are able to put that time in! I spent way more time on the interior of the terminal piers than the exteriors. It didn't seem like a great way of use of my time. I came to the conclusion that custom objects specific to the airport, or better building textures, or better looking ground markings was something I found more important. All developers need to balance where they put their efforts of course

 

I am honestly a bit troubled about many products released these days, as I also mentioned in the post as well in a comment. Mostly for my own sake really, it's key to understand the community if I will be able to create things the community wants to buy. And I feel I barely understand the market anymore. There is a massive focus on interiors and PBR, texture work is sharp but generic and in preview screenshots there are rarely shots from showing close up airside. Basically every aspect of what I try to be good at in my sceneries doesn't seem that requested anymore, so I felt I can't drop a high-definition interior without announcing that or people would get upset. I often drop in texture resolution in favour for variation, I don't do full PBR, I texture with real world photos instead of materials, I even bake shadows even when MSFS2020 has an automatic shadow system in place. I'm simply old school and I realized it's better I focus on what I can do good & would enjoy myself as a customer instead of trying to create something I don't really get myself.

 

And just to be clear, there are interiors added! It's not like you will watch a flat window, and I've honestly spent a massive amount of hours on that as well, but I have cut corners on how it's made to save on performance and time making them. I found it more important the correct restaurant or store could be viewed from the cockpit than it would look great if you went with the drone camera. That's really it. Everything I have previewed so far is included and all terminals will have interiors, but as you will probably notice is that we don't really feature many screenshots from the inside, of the simple reason it doesn't look as good from that angle.

 

I understand and actually agree with what you said @Flyer2022 (also thanks for a very constructive post) that it's better to focus on what is included instead of proudly pointing out what is not, and I apologize about that. I will try to have a better attitude moving forward.

 

 

[F737MAX]

6 hours ago, Marcus Nyberg said:

I am honestly a bit troubled about many products released these days, as I also mentioned in the post as well in a comment. Mostly for my own sake really, it's key to understand the community if I will be able to create things the community wants to buy. And I feel I barely understand the market anymore. There is a massive focus on interiors and PBR, texture work is sharp but generic and in preview screenshots there are rarely shots from showing close up airside. Basically every aspect of what I try to be good at in my sceneries doesn't seem that requested anymore, so I felt I can't drop a high-definition interior without announcing that or people would get upset. I often drop in texture resolution in favour for variation, I don't do full PBR, I texture with real world photos instead of materials, I even bake shadows even when MSFS2020 has an automatic shadow system in place. I'm simply old school and I realized it's better I focus on what I can do good & would enjoy myself as a customer instead of trying to create something I don't really get myself.

Appreciate the candid update.
Personally, I think for large glass-fronted terminals like T5A at EGLL, T2 at EDDK, the main terminal at EICK and the B and C terminals at KDCA, then it's well worth the developer's time and effort to fully model an interior as it makes such a big impact. You park on stand looking directly into the terminal building, where much of the interior is visible.

For airports whose terminals provide only some of the interior to view  e.g. KMIA or KBOS, then parallax could make more sense.
A major problem is you can run into arguments from people who feel short-changed that their home airport isn't 'up-to-standard'.

 

You're right in that the market has shifted. It's more demanding of what a passenger would see and experience rather than a flight crew (e.g. devs returning to their soundpacks to match the tone and volume of engine sounds in the cockpit to how they would sound to pax in the cabin in payware airliners).

 

 

6 hours ago, Marcus Nyberg said:

it's better to focus on what is included instead of proudly pointing out what is not

 

Completely agree. There's so much to look forward to in your work here and you have to design something you also enjoy.

As long as you give people the option to turn on/off static airliners, service vehicles, ground equipment, extra clutter, parked cars, etc. to personalise for personal preference and for performance, I feel something as high a quality of scenery you appear to be delivering will have lots of demand.
 

[Neil]

I am a little late to this discussion. I am in agreement with Marcus, and share his concern about hi-res interiors. For me it comes down to what has the most value. Landing, it is the integration of the airport area with the surrounding terrain, the runway/taxiways textures, and then the gates at the terminal. I am looking forward to the service vehicles and the gates Marcus is working on, a new level. Where is the value in the terminal interior beyond what can be seen from the cockpit, or an outside view. This is much the same as aircraft interiors, look at them once, and never again. I do realize that much work has gone into them, and many developers highlight this, it just doesn't provide value for me. 

 

Look at Stockholm Bromma, a really great experience, and not an interior view in sight.

 

Neil

[sun_king_135]

Let Marcus do ARN as he wishes, its his project after all and it's awesome! I can't wait to get back to ARN. 

 

The difference between Arlanda and Bromma is how the aircraft park at the building. The latter has nose in positions in front of the building, so that the interior is visible. So, if I landed there, I'd be more than happy to see the interior as I know from real flights. If i wanted airports without any extras and textures instead of views into the building, I'll set up FS98 with Wilco Airport 2000. We have come a long way to the amazing details possible with FS2020 and I'm happy with it. 

 

Kind regards. 

[Marcus Nyberg]

Hey guys,

First of all, thanks for everyone's input!

Second of all, I just want to point out that there is actually a very extensive interior for ESSB that was released with the update earlier this fall (if you bought it on Orbx Direct, the Marketplace version isn't up yet).  Recommend checking out the old tower interior if you got it!

 

[Neil]

Sun_King_135, you are quite correct to point out the difference of Bromma. First time landing, I taxied by the terminal and missed the parking completely! My disingenuous point was that its the whole experience that is most important, to me. So it would seem we have flogged this topic enough, and should let Marcus get on with it!

 

Neil

[Maelmoor]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:19 PM, Marcus Nyberg said:

 

 

 

Hey guys,

 

Interesting to read your comments. I'll just add my thoughts quickly.

So the reason I mentioned it will not be high-res interiors is the fact that I mentioned earlier that it was my intention to have those included in a state "where you could have a virtual beer doing planespotting"

 

I'm trying to be transparent with the project so people following the progress will not be dissapointed when it's released. Just balancing the expectations really.

For this project I've had the idea to be include you all on the project, both for my own sake of course, but also so if there are inputs they can be shared early in the process and everyone can be at least a little bit included in what we are building. Then there might be situations like now when I have to back-step on something I've said would be included earlier. Personally I think honesty and transparency could be a nice thing in this community so you all know what you are getting for the money and hopefully understand why some things are included and others not. And to me trying to step down a few steps on the ambition for the interiors meant more time for other objects, which I found to be a great thing. I'm sorry if that was received another way.

 

The reason why I'm back-stepping on the interiors a bit is not a technical reason.To me it's mainly about time management and where to put the focus. I have to take in what the community wants (otherwise it's hard making a living doing this obviously!), but somewhere along the road I need to think about what kind of scenery I would enjoy myself. What I really enjoy is clutter, dense messy airside with tons of things and photorealistic textures. I'm not a PBR guy (even if we are including it where we find neccesary), I rarely explore interiors and I still bake shadows into textures. My style and workflow is suddenly old school!  

And what I discovered was that it takes so much time making interiors if you want it to be correct. Kudos to all the devs that are able to put that time in! I spent way more time on the interior of the terminal piers than the exteriors. It didn't seem like a great way of use of my time. I came to the conclusion that custom objects specific to the airport, or better building textures, or better looking ground markings was something I found more important. All developers need to balance where they put their efforts of course

 

I am honestly a bit troubled about many products released these days, as I also mentioned in the post as well in a comment. Mostly for my own sake really, it's key to understand the community if I will be able to create things the community wants to buy. And I feel I barely understand the market anymore. There is a massive focus on interiors and PBR, texture work is sharp but generic and in preview screenshots there are rarely shots from showing close up airside. Basically every aspect of what I try to be good at in my sceneries doesn't seem that requested anymore, so I felt I can't drop a high-definition interior without announcing that or people would get upset. I often drop in texture resolution in favour for variation, I don't do full PBR, I texture with real world photos instead of materials, I even bake shadows even when MSFS2020 has an automatic shadow system in place. I'm simply old school and I realized it's better I focus on what I can do good & would enjoy myself as a customer instead of trying to create something I don't really get myself.

 

And just to be clear, there are interiors added! It's not like you will watch a flat window, and I've honestly spent a massive amount of hours on that as well, but I have cut corners on how it's made to save on performance and time making them. I found it more important the correct restaurant or store could be viewed from the cockpit than it would look great if you went with the drone camera. That's really it. Everything I have previewed so far is included and all terminals will have interiors, but as you will probably notice is that we don't really feature many screenshots from the inside, of the simple reason it doesn't look as good from that angle.

 

I understand and actually agree with what you said @Flyer2022 (also thanks for a very constructive post) that it's better to focus on what is included instead of proudly pointing out what is not, and I apologize about that. I will try to have a better attitude moving forward.

 

 

I really appreciate your explanation of the thought process and inviting us along the journey!

 

There is no doubt MSFS have changed the landscape for airport add-ons, as the bar was raised for both visual and technical aspects. For me, who find a well-made airport really important, I finally feel that with MSFS this part of flight simning can finally offer the level of immersion I'm after.

 

If I'm looking at the best airport add-ons out there, they offer top quality both in terms of interior and exterior. That doesn't mean that every nook and cranny needs to be super detailed. As an example, using parallax in some areas that are not the focus point is in my view a fair solution to save both time and resources.

 

Take your Bromma as an example, I love it and use it a lot, but for me the addition of the interior took it to another level. It's not just about exploring the airport, but take the night lighting as an example. Opaque, flat window textures can never replicate the lighting from a terminal with an interior, especially when it's well-made, such as yours Bromma.

 

I definitely understand the time aspect though, and the larger the airport is the more challenging the time factor becomes. So comprising with the scope is a far better solution than compromising with quality.

 

I can imagine there is some pressure to "perform", with a lot of high quality products coming out, but you shouldn't worry about that. I think people enjoy your work because you do things with quality, attention to detail and with your stamp on it.

 

All this have earned you a great reputation in the community, so you should continue on that path and let your strengths speak. If you feel it's right and important, then trust that instinct!

[AnotherFeffe]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:25 AM, Maelmoor said:

also mentioned in the post as well in a comment. Mostly for my own sake really, it's key to understand the community if I will be able to create things the community wants to buy. And I feel I barely understand the market anymore. There is a massive focus on interiors and PBR, texture work is sharp but generic and in preview screenshots there are rarely shots from showing close up airside. Basically every aspect of what I try to be good at in my sceneries doesn't seem that requested anymore, so I felt I can't drop a high-definition interior without announcing that or people would get upset. I often drop in texture resolution in favour for variation, I don't do full PBR, I texture with real world photos instead of materials, I even bake shadows even when MSFS2020 has an automatic shadow system in place. I'm simply old school and I realized it's better I focus on what I can do good & would enjoy myself as a customer instead of trying to create something I don't really get myself.

 

And just to be clear, there are interiors added! It's not like you will watch a flat window, and I've honestly spent a massive amount of hours on that as well, but I have cut corners on how it's made to save on performance and time making them. I found it more important the correct restaurant or store could be viewed from the cockpit than it would look great if you went with the drone camera. That's really it. Everything I have previewed so far is included and all terminals will have interiors, but as you will probably notice is that we don't really feature many screenshots from the inside, of the simple reason it doesn't look as good from that angle.

 

I understand and actually agree with what you said @Flyer2022 (also thanks for a very constructive post) that it's better to focus on what is included instead of proudly pointing out what is not, and I apologize about that. I will try to have a better attitude moving forward.

 

On 12/13/2022 at 12:19 PM, Marcus Nyberg said:

 

 

 

Hey guys,

 

Interesting to read your comments. I'll just add my thoughts quickly.

So the reason I mentioned it will not be high-res interiors is the fact that I mentioned earlier that it was my intention to have those included in a state "where you could have a virtual beer doing planespotting"

 

I'm trying to be transparent with the project so people following the progress will not be dissapointed when it's released. Just balancing the expectations really.

For this project I've had the idea to be include you all on the project, both for my own sake of course, but also so if there are inputs they can be shared early in the process and everyone can be at least a little bit included in what we are building. Then there might be situations like now when I have to back-step on something I've said would be included earlier. Personally I think honesty and transparency could be a nice thing in this community so you all know what you are getting for the money and hopefully understand why some things are included and others not. And to me trying to step down a few steps on the ambition for the interiors meant more time for other objects, which I found to be a great thing. I'm sorry if that was received another way.

 

The reason why I'm back-stepping on the interiors a bit is not a technical reason.To me it's mainly about time management and where to put the focus. I have to take in what the community wants (otherwise it's hard making a living doing this obviously!), but somewhere along the road I need to think about what kind of scenery I would enjoy myself. What I really enjoy is clutter, dense messy airside with tons of things and photorealistic textures. I'm not a PBR guy (even if we are including it where we find neccesary), I rarely explore interiors and I still bake shadows into textures. My style and workflow is suddenly old school!  

And what I discovered was that it takes so much time making interiors if you want it to be correct. Kudos to all the devs that are able to put that time in! I spent way more time on the interior of the terminal piers than the exteriors. It didn't seem like a great way of use of my time. I came to the conclusion that custom objects specific to the airport, or better building textures, or better looking ground markings was something I found more important. All developers need to balance where they put their efforts of course

 

I am honestly a bit troubled about many products released these days, as I also mentioned in the post as well in a comment. Mostly for my own sake really, it's key to understand the community if I will be able to create things the community wants to buy. And I feel I barely understand the market anymore. There is a massive focus on interiors and PBR, texture work is sharp but generic and in preview screenshots there are rarely shots from showing close up airside. Basically every aspect of what I try to be good at in my sceneries doesn't seem that requested anymore, so I felt I can't drop a high-definition interior without announcing that or people would get upset. I often drop in texture resolution in favour for variation, I don't do full PBR, I texture with real world photos instead of materials, I even bake shadows even when MSFS2020 has an automatic shadow system in place. I'm simply old school and I realized it's better I focus on what I can do good & would enjoy myself as a customer instead of trying to create something I don't really get myself.

 

And just to be clear, there are interiors added! It's not like you will watch a flat window, and I've honestly spent a massive amount of hours on that as well, but I have cut corners on how it's made to save on performance and time making them. I found it more important the correct restaurant or store could be viewed from the cockpit than it would look great if you went with the drone camera. That's really it. Everything I have previewed so far is included and all terminals will have interiors, but as you will probably notice is that we don't really feature many screenshots from the inside, of the simple reason it doesn't look as good from that angle.

 

I understand and actually agree with what you said @Flyer2022 (also thanks for a very constructive post) that it's better to focus on what is included instead of proudly pointing out what is not, and I apologize about that. I will try to have a better attitude moving forward.

 

 

 

I respect this and I also like your style. There are good and bad texture artists both when it comes to PBR and texturing using photographs. It all comes down to how well you know your craft. I think you have mastered the art of texturing using photos. The only thing I don't like about this method and especially in a game engine as advanced as Microsoft flight simulator are glass textures with baked reflections. It just gives a very early 00's look and goes against graphical achievements made. I think high polish surfaces should be represented using proper PBR that allows the game engine to render reflections without interference of baked in reflections from when the photograph was taken. Other then that I see no issue.  

Edited December 20, 2022 by AnotherFeffe

[matssederholm]

I hope you continuelly check out the performance.
Both ASOBO's ESSA and your ESSB are pretty heavy when using VR.
Of course depending on ones hardware but compared to other Add ons it's a bit troublesome.

Mats S
 

[Marcus Nyberg]

Thank you for your comments! I think we've chosen a good path forward & I hope you will all agree when it's released.

 

Just quickly wanted to share a few new screens

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[avduarri]

I can't wait to fly from/to ESSA. Looks amazing.

Good job.

[keino333]

I'm ready for it...and so is my APL :)...ESSB was extraordinary before and after the interiors update.  This (ESSA)is going to be mind-blowing.  Thank you....Let it snow

 

[goodmanp]

I really hope you bring this over to XP12??

 

Thx

[Marcus Nyberg]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:46 PM, goodmanp said:

I really hope you bring this over to XP12??

 

Thx

 

Yes. My idea is we port it to XPL and P3D as long as there is a market to support it. Looking at today's market I would say that XPL will happen but P3D is increasingly unsure.

[Marcus Nyberg]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

T5F. (The yellow gate pier signs will be made grey and VDGS systems not added yet).

[WebMaximus]

Thanks for pointing me in this direction Marcus even when I'm late to the party.

 

So happy to learn we'll soon have a nice ESSA in MSFS and the screenshots look awesome! So realistic!

 

What made me a bit worried was those comments about baked in shadows, old school etc. I've been enjoying this hobby since the first version of MSFS and even before that on my Amiga 500. What we have today is nothing short of amazing. The visuals and lighting seen in today's MSFS is what most of us only dreamed of not that long ago. This combined with a game engine and new tools available to developers where they can develop things which would have been impossible yesterday, all this sums up to very exciting times!

 

So with this said, I hope both for you and us that you'll also move in that direction and make sure to both learn and enjoy all the new tools you have at your disposal. This arena needs artists like you Marcus and I can't wait to enjoy both ESSA and future products from you!

 

Lastly to comment on interiors. Where I read some people pretty much saying "Why bother". In my case, I would have agreed before MSFS. Where the developers had to be very conservative, always balancing visual fidelity with performance.

 

Today though and thanks to Asobo, that is no longer the case. At least not to the extent it used to be. From a user perspective, of course it's not at the top of the list for most of us. However...now when have a platform which allows us to enjoy also those parts, to me that adds quite a lot to the immersion. Where I in the past didn't even think about it (but dreamt about it occasionally), today I often end my flight by going into external view to check out the airport in more detail. Including the interior. Being able to do this in VR is so cool!

 

So with all this said, so much looking forward flying into and out of my home airport again but please don't get stuck in the past Marcus but instead embrace all the new and cool things we have in front of us 🙂

[Marcus Nyberg]

44 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

Thanks for pointing me in this direction Marcus even when I'm late to the party.

 

So happy to learn we'll soon have a nice ESSA in MSFS and the screenshots look awesome! So realistic!

 

What made me a bit worried was those comments about baked in shadows, old school etc. I've been enjoying this hobby since the first version of MSFS and even before that on my Amiga 500. What we have today is nothing short of amazing. The visuals and lighting seen in today's MSFS is what most of us only dreamed of not that long ago. This combined with a game engine and new tools available to developers where they can develop things which would have been impossible yesterday, all this sums up to very exciting times!

 

So with this said, I hope both for you and us that you'll also move in that direction and make sure to both learn and enjoy all the new tools you have at your disposal. This arena needs artists like you Marcus and I can't wait to enjoy both ESSA and future products from you!

 

Lastly to comment on interiors. Where I read some people pretty much saying "Why bother". In my case, I would have agreed before MSFS. Where the developers had to be very conservative, always balancing visual fidelity with performance.

 

Today though and thanks to Asobo, that is no longer the case. At least not to the extent it used to be. From a user perspective, of course it's not at the top of the list for most of us. However...now when have a platform which allows us to enjoy also those parts, to me that adds quite a lot to the immersion. Where I in the past didn't even think about it (but dreamt about it occasionally), today I often end my flight by going into external view to check out the airport in more detail. Including the interior. Being able to do this in VR is so cool!

 

So with all this said, so much looking forward flying into and out of my home airport again but please don't get stuck in the past Marcus but instead embrace all the new and cool things we have in front of us 🙂

 

Thanks for your comments Richard, and I can understand your worry.

From my perspective there is nothing in my current workflow that is part of the past to be honest, I rather think it's more coming to it's right in this new environment.

All screenshots are showing the workflow I am currently using and I'm very proud of the outcome. Maybe I shouldn't have spoken about my workflow because I doubt anyone would have even reacted on these things otherwise  

I'm always open to learn and progress and to take use of new technologies, and will of course not be an old-schooler refusing to change with the times, but more than anything I want to deliver a product I believe in and can do good. My comments about workflow was rather that I finally came to the conclusion that this is the best way to make a great product for me.

 

As for interiors, there are interiors, but it has not been my main focus. I can understand the perspective you bring up though!

Something to think about for future projects or updates of course.

 

Cheers,

Marcus

 

 

[WebMaximus]

Thanks Marcus, I'm sure ESSA as well as your future products will be great and what you've shown in here looks absolutely fantastic 

 

This is a great time for all of us enjoying this hobby and to witness how far we've come. I remember many, many years ago when I drove out to Arlanda with my camera and instructions from you what you wanted me to take pictures of for what I think was your first ESSA scenery IIRC.

 

Time flies 

[Maelmoor]

Another batch of great screenshots, looks awesome!

[keino333]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:32 AM, Marcus Nyberg said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

T5F. (The yellow gate pier signs will be made grey and VDGS systems not added yet).

You're seriously killing me with anticipation....