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No navdata for EDDT Berlin Tagel.


paul123
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Doing some research a post was put on Orbx on July 9th 2021 about the same issue which apparently is unresolved. If I had known this I obvioulsy would not of purchased this. It is completely unreasonable for Orbx to still market this product as it is not fit for purpose. £20 of my hard earned money wasted on this.

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Like I said I don't think it's Orbx's or Gaya's issue to fix, rather the issue of Navigraph or Asobo/NavBlue

 

But imo there's no 'issue' as the airport is closed so therefore is correct not to show in nav databases

Edited by EasternT3
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Because some people may like to recreate flights of the past, same reason why Kai Tak is still a popular airport in the simming community. Yes, no navdata makes it harder, but it still is possible.

Edited by EasternT3
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3 hours ago, paul123 said:

So why on earth would you buy an airport where it is impossible to use navdata to fly into ?. Just gawp at the airport ??

Not if you are flying GA. Not everyone flies solely in the big tin and to have an airport almost in the middle of a major city is a major plus for GA fliers. 

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11 hours ago, paul123 said:

Orbx and other sellers need to post in description that there is no navdata is available for this airport. Would like an answer from admin on this.

 

Hi

 

I think it would be more appropriate for you to take this up with the developer first.

 

This product has been produced by Gaya Simulations. For Gaya Simulations product support, please to go http://www.gaya-simulations.com

 

 

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Maybe Orbx should place a warning on the EDDT product page saying something like "Note: For this airport are no nav data available" or  the like. This just would be fair.

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11 hours ago, flyingfish55 said:

Not if you are flying GA. Not everyone flies solely in the big tin and to have an airport almost in the middle of a major city is a major plus for GA fliers. 

 

I think the production of airports like EDDT, KJFK, EGLL etc. is not really aiming at VFR flyers.

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Hello,

the purchase of the model of a closed airport is a delight to some and a disaster to others.

 

Meigs Airport in Chicago closed in a blaze of publicity in 2003 and yet there is still demand

for a model of it, even in MSFS.

I think it is highly unlikely that it would appear in any "FMS database" either.

 

It is not a secret that Tegel airport closed in 2020 and it should be no surprise to find that 

it is no longer in a database.

 

@paul123

Please submit a support ticket and a refund will be considered.

 

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3 hours ago, wolfko said:

 

I think the production of airports like EDDT, KJFK, EGLL etc. is not really aiming at VFR flyers.

 

Agreed Wolfko in respect of the latter two mentioned which are currently fully operational airports however I would assume, perhaps mistakenly, that most simmers would know that Tegel is no longer operational and therefore navdata will not be available.

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2 hours ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello,

the purchase of the model of a closed airport is a delight to some and a disaster to others.

 

Meigs Airport in Chicago closed in a blaze of publicity in 2003 and yet there is still demand

for a model of it, even in MSFS.

I think it is highly unlikely that it would appear in any "FMS database" either.

 

It is not a secret that Tegel airport closed in 2020 and it should be no surprise to find that 

it is no longer in a database.

 

@paul123

Please submit a support ticket and a refund will be considered.

 

 

Yes but flying VFR into Meigs was quite common, which was not for Tegel.

The Gaya Tegel is representing an airport like it was, when it still existed, incl. static aircraft, approach lights etc. So IMO also the navdata of this past time has to be included. 

If I had bought Tegel (which I haven't) I also would have expected to have applicable (retro) navdata included. Otherwise the purchase of such an airport really does not make much sense. It is actually not much work for a developer to include obsolete navdata in his product. Kai Tak has got it.

All the promo pics and the video on the Orbx product site arouse the impression that this is a fully operational airport of the past.

 

 

Edited by wolfko
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3 minutes ago, flyingfish55 said:

 

Agreed Wolfko in respect of the latter two mentioned which are currently fully operational airports however I would assume, perhaps mistakenly, that most simmers would know that Tegel is no longer operational and therefore navdata will not be available.

 

I see your point, but there is a Kai Tak product on the market (at least for another sim) which has the necessary navdata included.

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Again Wolfgang, I agree with your point however in my opinion this is an issue to be discussed either with the developer or with Navigraph or any other navaid supplier. Surely Orbx cannot be expected to be aware of all the pros and cons of the products it is partnered with. In the same way, If you bought an item from a store in your local Hight Street, you would not expect the store to refund you unless the item was faulty. There is a legal principle which still holds good - buyer beware. This means in law that there is a basic premise that the onus falls upon the buyer to investigate the product before completing the purchase. 

Edited by flyingfish55
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According to a Navigraph forum post and AIRAC release notes, EDDT Tegel was added with AIRAC 2205:

Quote

AIRAC 2205 Revision 1 (2022-05-19):

  • AIRAC 2205 for Microsoft Flight Simulator released
  • navdata (navaids, fixes and terminal procedures) for the historical airport EDDT Berlin-Tegel added (available in the MSFS navdata + all MSFS addons)

[Source]

 

and from the FMS Data Developer:

Quote

Be aware, we are speaking from the datasets and not from the charts … we offer only the navdata for the outdated airport EDDT but no charts. Also, you can´t create a route with it because it´s an none existing airport (like VHHX) and there are no routes. So you must enter historical routes directly into your FMC/S, or Garmin.

 

[Source]

 

I checked in both the PMDG 737-800 and the default Cessna 172 and was able to select the airport and available procedures. I was also able to fly an ILS approach with the Cessna 172 to a version of EDDT that was present in the sim - I do not have the Gaya version of EDDT. There are a few sites around that offer charts from old airports (like EDDT, VHHX, etc.).

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On 9/15/2022 at 9:24 PM, EasternT3 said:

Like I said I don't think it's Orbx's or Gaya's issue to fix, rather the issue of Navigraph or Asobo/NavBlue

snow rider 3d

But imo there's no 'issue' as the airport is closed so therefore is correct not to show in nav databases

Just gawp at the airport ??

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