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Concerned About Direction Orbx is Heading


KORDATC
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I am considering a new PC and moving to MSFS , just like others who have posted here I have only ever purchased Orbx and planned to continue doing the same .  After reading the comments here it seems to me Orbx should concentrate on being what it always was the leader in quality products. And perhaps find a niche and not spread its self to wide , it seems that we the customer would be willing to pay for it.

 

Regards Ray 

 

 

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What i tend to find with allot of communities is when someone purchases an airport or aircraft etc etc and there is something they dont like they will jump on a forum or discord rant about it but not actually provide the developer with feedback on what it is that makes them dislike something,

 

People seem to have the mind of "i wont report it someone else will" which has to stop.  If you make a purchase and something is not right or its bugged etc REPORT it to the developers directly.  Dont wait for someone else to do it. 

If developers are not getting feedback be it good or bad then how do you expect them to fix things if they are not getting reported.

This happens ALLOT over on the msfs forums people make forum threads complaining about X Y Z but when you suggest they do a bug report via the zendesk "they cant be bothered or whats the point".

Developers dont mind negative feedback if anything they like it it helps them with future products.  Constructive critism is always welcomed by all developers not just in flight sim but other genres as well.  If no one says anything then how are they to know somethings wrong :)

 

 

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This thread definitely has some interesting perspectives. Orbx is evolving but,in my opinion, has still maintained their roots.  The airports, regions and land class products that everyone loves are still here. They have just not yet become available for the new platform MFS2020. This is a new environment both in the sim's capability and the flight sim market place. I think they are trying to find the "right formula" for success. 

 

As a real world aviator, I want an accurate representation of the area when I am on approach. What type of product it takes to deliver that varies depending upon the type of aircraft and flight I am simulating at the time. When I land I want more a more detailed accurate representation of the actual airport or helipad. This true bringing a B777 into YSSY or a DHC-6 into a PNG bush strip. Orbx and partners still deliver this for me.

 

My thoughts,

 

Greg

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Could those of you, who are moaning, that the quality of Orbx products has got worse lately, please explain what kinda shortcomings the new Orbx products have?

There is mostly just general nagging but no concrete description of what you are missing in these late releases. Thank you.

 

Edit: I am not talking about the Throwback Thursday line if products. 

 

 

Edited by wolfko
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6 hours ago, wolfko said:

Could those of you, who are moaning, that the quality of Orbx products has got worse lately, please explain what kinda shortcomings the new Orbx products have?

There is mostly just general nagging but no concrete description of what you are missing in these late releases. Thank you.

 

Edit: I am not talking about the Throwback Thursday line if products. 

 

 

Primarily, it is just a seeming inconsistency in quality between releases.  As I made clear in my first post, my *personal* biggest gripe is custom jetways.  Some of the in-house Orbx airports (throwback series aside) for MSFS have them, and then some don’t.  YBBN, KSJC, EGNT, ESMS, etc. all have them whereas other airports such as KHVN, KSBA just have the standard default jetways.  In addition to that, some releases seem to have completely custom airport vehicles scattered about the apron, but others have default MSFS vehicles scattered about.  Some seemingly have incredibly convincing ground textures (KHVN), yet some others seem to lack any special something in apron textures (CYBD).  These 3 things *to me at least* are what set payware apart from the freeware.  They all contribute heavily to the feeling of ‘being there’.  Without them, it just doesn’t feel special.  There’s just seemingly an overall lack of consistency between products, whereas in the past (back in the days of the Orbx library), it seemed like every single release checked all of the same boxes.  As others have said, I didn’t have to think twice about purchasing in the past, whereas now, I do.

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13 hours ago, Ross Gunn said:

Developers dont mind negative feedback if anything they like it it helps them with future products.  Constructive critism is always welcomed by all developers not just in flight sim but other genres as well.  If no one says anything then how are they to know somethings wrong

 

I'm sure you're right that many don't bother to provide specific feedback, but Orbx don't play their part either. In another thread regarding the Edgely Optica I (politely) asked a couple of questions about the Ctrl-E problem but no one at Orbx has bothered to respond to my latest questions. Nor have they added it to the bug list. This is far from the first time I've had valid questions ignored either. Andy1252 commented on "a very defensive attitude in the forums", but sometimes it seems there's an 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude to.

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8 hours ago, wolfko said:

Could those of you, who are moaning

This is a very passive aggressive remark Wolfgang. For my part, I responded to this thread with how I feel about the direction of Orbx as of late. I don't feel that my comments were 'moaning' as you put it. Maybe you were not talking to me, I don't know, but comments like that are what put people in defensive postures. Why not simply ask for some of us to elaborate on why we feel the way we do instead of resorting to such types of instigating comments? I've known you virtually on here for years, and I respect your comments and opinions and I do not wish to get into a sparring match with you in this thread. Just something to think about. 

 

Anyhow, let me elaborate some on why I feel the way I do, for those that want to know. In some of the previous airport releases prior to MSFS, the developers put little special touches on many of them....the race cars at S43 Harvey, the moving trains at LOWI and EGHI, BBQ parties at places like Bowerman, and some of the other PNW airports (I cannot remember them all specifically). Also, the Orca whales off the ends of the runway at KORS....those kind of little touches are what make me feel like those are special Orbx magic touches. I know MSFS has it's own people flowish type of thing going on with the ground service people, but it is the exact same people at every airport. Orbx' People Flow had a little more variety (remember the woman in red for example?). Anyhow, that is generally why I feel the way I do. That, and as I stated earlier in my previous post, that lack of digital User Guides....that is a BIG one for me. Lot's of cool details were in those User Guides, and helped me to soak in more of the feel of that virtual location. Sure, I can use Wikipedia, and I do, but having some historical data combined with some flying info, maps and diagrams as well as POI's included with the scenery (and their locations) was something I really appreciated. We don't get those anymore.

 

Hopefully that helps shed some light on why I feel the way I do regarding this main topic of this thread.

 

Cheers, and have a nice day :) 

Landon

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1 hour ago, SGunard said:

 

I'm sure you're right that many don't bother to provide specific feedback, but Orbx don't play their part either. In another thread regarding the Edgely Optica I (politely) asked a couple of questions about the Ctrl-E problem but no one at Orbx has bothered to respond to my latest questions. Nor have they added it to the bug list. This is far from the first time I've had valid questions ignored either. Andy1252 commented on "a very defensive attitude in the forums", but sometimes it seems there's an 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude to.

Yes I saw your post on that titled “generally the worst aircraft I own” or similar. 
 

I also noticed you have made a new comment “this has been over a week!” 
 

you may find your not getting support due to it being posted I “General Discussion NO SUPPORT” forum section. Just a thought 

 

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9 hours ago, wolfko said:

Could those of you, who are moaning, that the quality of Orbx products has got worse lately, please explain what kinda shortcomings the new Orbx products have?

There is mostly just general nagging but no concrete description of what you are missing in these late releases. Thank you.

 

Edit: I am not talking about the Throwback Thursday line if products. 

 

 

 

Problem is, I bought some of the first releases for MSFS, paid full price and they had "throwback thursday" quality but no mention of them just being simple ports. Then I guess after Orbx picked up the moaning they started calling them "throwback thursday" and sell them cheaper. I felt ripped off. 

 

Also I expected Orbx to get the finger out of their yansh and actually give us people flow, since other devs seems to be able to have animated people(they told us it wasnt possible). People flow was actually what made me stick with Orbx in the past because it gave life to the sim. 

 

To me it seems the bean counter's have taken complete control of this Company, I actually miss the time when John Venema was CFO. There was more innovation, and will to make impossible things possible and always strive to increase quality of their addons. Now it seems to be quantity over quality... 

 And nowadays, there seems to be almost no new small cozy airports being developet and the focus had shifted more to bigger stuff, wich was also a reason I sticked with Orbx. Now im more intrested in Orbx partners than inhouse Orbx stuff(I Wonder WHY?) 

Edited by kaboki
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On 8/31/2021 at 6:23 PM, Sniper31 said:

This is a very passive aggressive remark Wolfgang. For my part, I responded to this thread with how I feel about the direction of Orbx as of late. I don't feel that my comments were 'moaning' as you put it. Maybe you were not talking to me, I don't know, but comments like that are what put people in defensive postures. Why not simply ask for some of us to elaborate on why we feel the way we do instead of resorting to such types of instigating comments? I've known you virtually on here for years, and I respect your comments and opinions and I do not wish to get into a sparring match with you in this thread. Just something to think about. 

 

Anyhow, let me elaborate some on why I feel the way I do, for those that want to know. In some of the previous airport releases prior to MSFS, the developers put little special touches on many of them....the race cars at S43 Harvey, the moving trains at LOWI and EGHI, BBQ parties at places like Bowerman, and some of the other PNW airports (I cannot remember them all specifically). Also, the Orca whales off the ends of the runway at KORS....those kind of little touches are what make me feel like those are special Orbx magic touches. I know MSFS has it's own people flowish type of thing going on with the ground service people, but it is the exact same people at every airport. Orbx' People Flow had a little more variety (remember the woman in red for example?). Anyhow, that is generally why I feel the way I do. That, and as I stated earlier in my previous post, that lack of digital User Guides....that is a BIG one for me. Lot's of cool details were in those User Guides, and helped me to soak in more of the feel of that virtual location. Sure, I can use Wikipedia, and I do, but having some historical data combined with some flying info, maps and diagrams as well as POI's included with the scenery (and their locations) was something I really appreciated. We don't get those anymore.

 

Hopefully that helps shed some light on why I feel the way I do regarding this main topic of this thread.

 

Cheers, and have a nice day :) 

Landon

 

Landon, my post was not aiming at you or all the others who clearly stated their sentiments and/or said what they do not like about the newer Orbx products. I was only asking the few posters who are saying Orbx does not provide the same high quality any more like it did a few years ago but do not state why they do not like the new Orbx products.

Since I absolutely dislike the fact that complaining about everything and anything becomes more and more popular nowadays, my wording was probably a bit too harsh. I do appologize for this.

And BTW, Happy Birthday Landon! :D

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9 minutes ago, wolfko said:

 

Landon, my post was not aiming at you or all the others who clearly stated their sentiments and/or said what they do not like about the newer Orbx products. I was only asking the few posters who are saying Orbx does not provide the same high quality any more like it did a few years ago but do not state why they do not like the new Orbx products.

Since I absolutely dislike the fact that complaining about everything and anything becomes more and more popular nowadays, my wording was probably a bit too harsh. I do appologize for this.

And BTW, Happy Birthday Landon! :D

Thanks for clearing the air Wolfgang, I appreciate that. Like I said, I have always appreciated our virtual sim friendship for years since we both found Orbx scenery. I also can understand your frustration, as I have seen that type of complaining across the board across all platforms be it the P3D vs. FSX crowd, or the P3D vs. XP crowd, or low and slow crowd vs. the tubeliner crowd or the Star Trek vs Star Wars crowd etc, etc. etc...anyhow, all is good and thanks for the birthday wishes too :) 

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On 8/30/2021 at 10:50 AM, Julio Garcia said:

I repeat my statement again: Orbx please back to the roots: small to medium size high quality airports (for P3D & MSFS). Im very disappointed about my last 2 purchases here (1x Orbx & 1x Gaya Simulations).

Disappointment - Which & why Julio?

 

With P3D I mainly fly GA & still consider Harvey Field with its smoking BBQ & the train going past, (set up in W16), & the moving hot air balloons, as one of the airfields that has the Orbx 'magic'.

Mainly through the aforementioned items. & the moving truck & taxiing GA aircraft.

& up one end of the airfield, on the roadside, there is a plane spotter by his vehicle, plus the timber yard is always a good VFR lead in.

So I suspect the 'magic' comes from the inclusion of many items of detail, some moving. some not, but the sum of them makes Harvey a go to for me when a PNW GA departure is being considered.

 

In MSFS I am developing more interest in Tube flying & having recently come to some semblance of understanding of the FBW A32NX, I look more closely now at the 7,500' plus length runway offerings, such as Split.

I suspect it's harder to make a large airport as interesting as a small GA that has a lot of detail because the 'detail' you put into the larger item can get lost in its vastness.

So I tend to look for buildings with some character - rust, grime, weathering: authenticity. Or locations with interesting approaches.

Such as the Balkans cluster.

 

It can be difficult to  define 'magic' in a simulator product. It probably means different things to different people.:)

Here endeth the ramble. 

TTM

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Since MSFS launched I've only bought one payware product; a helicopter. 

Why? Because landclass is old tech for most of the globe now, and freeware developers seem able to produce amazing airports and regional poi's mesh and aircraft mods.

It has shot Orbx's fox, as we say in the UK, unless there is some unique specialism left to offer, which seems unlikely. I agree with others above; the incomplete SDK has leveled down the possibilities so that anyone can bring new content, and Orbx has nothing more to add at this stage.

 

There appears to be a mismatch between ASOBO's promise to open up the SDK to developers; and the lived reality of, for example update 5, given the way even their close affiliates get caught by surprise.

 

I'm not saying Orbx is not as good; it can't move forward as it wants because of these restraints in the SDK. It has become, by default as good as the best freeware, and therein lies the dilemma.

 

 

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3 hours ago, flying_fish said:

Since MSFS launched I've only bought one payware product; a helicopter. 

Why? Because landclass is old tech for most of the globe now, and freeware developers seem able to produce amazing airports and regional poi's mesh and aircraft mods.

It has shot Orbx's fox, as we say in the UK, unless there is some unique specialism left to offer, which seems unlikely. I agree with others above; the incomplete SDK has leveled down the possibilities so that anyone can bring new content, and Orbx has nothing more to add at this stage.

 

There appears to be a mismatch between ASOBO's promise to open up the SDK to developers; and the lived reality of, for example update 5, given the way even their close affiliates get caught by surprise.

 

I'm not saying Orbx is not as good; it can't move forward as it wants because of these restraints in the SDK. It has become, by default as good as the best freeware, and therein lies the dilemma.

 

 

Succinct & accurate, & I just noticed on another Forum, Asobo/MSFS recommending a freeware airport from.to.

TTM

 

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1 hour ago, adambar said:

I would love to see some of top small airports from the PNW and California in MSFS once again like Harvey and Jefferson Conty, Monterey, Redding among others. :)

And Agua Dulce L70....love that one!

 

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Hi TTM
I have been with Orbx for a long time and have bought many many airports. I am 100% happy about. Many of them are masterpieces. I wrotte here about the last 2 purchases:
Gaya ENCM there would be  much posted about many autogen and mensh errors in p3d 4.5. Errors to this day still exists. No correction. Also in the p3d 4  I posted about some errors with the Ento scenery. Until today also no correction. Not happy about. Sorry for my bad english.

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10 minutes ago, Bullfox said:

i have not seen updates to any of the scenery products for some time.  I wonder if Orbx has anyone working on updates?

Well, that one is from today

 

https://forum.orbxdirect.com/topic/209862-landmarks-dubai-city-pack-110-update/

 

And I keep getting continual updates for Orbx sceneries, perhaps once per week or more often.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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8 hours ago, Bullfox said:

Michael,

I have mostly western US scenery and I find problems and report them but I don't think the western US is near the top of the list right now for updates.

 

 

The updates are done by the indivudual developers of the scenery in question. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well. I think this post allows me to express my thoughts instead of arguing in my mind with Orbx :D

As it happened to KORDATC, the release of PAKT shocked me. I jumped of happiness when I saw it released, inmediate thought was, Gosh I already have NSS version..third thought was, well Orbx must be better....but I didn't replace current vesion even being Orbx one at a very low price.

 

There is something you should never lose, your crown. That crown was earned by creating unique charming destinations with little details, by the great support you offer and by this forum that ties all.

It doesn't matter if you create big or small airports, that is not the point but the quality of them. Sceneries seemed to have been created with passion, with love. You can feel that. Take a look at Narvik for example, in any season. There are a bunch of them to mention.

It is not that you don't put love or details in current MSFS versions but some things don't seem to match. For example Meribel. Such a nice spot, very nicely done but suddenly you see the square avatars of P3D that don't fit no more. Developers are improving even in such secondary details.

Your seceneries had the wow factor everywhere, and you must keep that impact and even do better and beyond others to keep your crown.

 

What meant Orbx for me?

Well.. quality, the best developer in the world, a very exclusive developer, a sort of club I wanted to be a memeber of. Your sceneries were unique, exclusive, like jewelry. Saying I have Orbx products gave a sort of feeling of pride, I got the best of the best. It drove me crazy and two years or so I had bought the whole catalog for P3D with the exception of last TE products as MSFS was on the way. I spent entire days exploring and I was simply in love with some products, products that I asked for to be made for MSFS and in many cases was never replied.

Products that are currently out there made by others !! Sadly but also fortunately because you won't miss flying them.

PAKT, KEKA, SEKIU, LDRI, LDDU to mention some are all out there! made by others, even freeware like Samedan and Milford Sound and really good but hey!.., these were your jewels.. this should not have happened. It feels like they entered the house and stole your jewelry, we all saw that robbery and Orbx seems not to care at all.

Is like if others tell you hey your kingdom just ended, you no longer rule, you lost your exclusivity. And that cannot happen becuase it leaves us without our pride for the very worldwide known Orbx unique products. Eveything that had Orbx brand should be kept so in any platform.

 

Let me go back to Narvik. I became fan of Orbx because of this scenery. Then I did my best to buy all of your products as a gesture or gratitude and to be part of this wonderful exclusive world. This said, what do you think I will feel when I see Narvik made by any son of neighbour?

Sadness, becuase you lost another chance to claim a destination known as unique to Orbx.

I totally understand that anybody can make the airports they desire, but in your case, being on top of any other, you should be two steps ahead others and reposition all your products, the products that gave you in return this huge amount of fans and never in a lower quality or detail that a competitor or an amateur. Otherwise you will become any other developer, and we would had lost our very exclusive club.

 

I hope you don't take in a wrong way my comment, I do love Orbx, I love your products and everything related to you and this is actually why I am saying this. Keep ruling!

 

 

Cheers

Carlos

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