Captain Lars Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I believe that MSFS 2020 is a subject that needs a (new) thread. Some might not believe it, but yes, I am quite excited by the new sim, too. Here is a video I found. Quite a cold shower: at 12:38 you can hear that there'll be no VR and no seasons - at least not on release. In other words: Ooops... sorry guys, we figured most customers would be happy to fly during summertime only Jim Joystick is back I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc44kin Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Thank you for posting this,very interesting to say the least,Doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musterpilot Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I won't be paying every month or once a year for a flight sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Q Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Besides the subscription issue, after spending hundreds on ORBX scenery, and a thousand + on my cockpit, I want full and easy backward compatibility, which I can't even get with FSX Steam. I don't care much about VR, but I care very much about seasons. So as presented this is a no starter for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuisong Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I feel that the reason for not including seasons at the outset has been well explained by the development team. And quite frankly I agree with their reasoning. As for paying a subscription, I would happy do so, especially if it means that any updates are done automatically and I don't have to continually play around with keeping a multitude of different programmes up to date. One programme will may do all I want. (I think) We will see I guess. And as I have fiber right to the beginning of my LAN, unlimited data and unrestricted speed I don't anticipate any problems in that regard, And I have no interest in VR, how do I find my controls and switches? I only hope that they can find some permanent way of stopping W10 from disconnecting my controllers I will be an early adopter, see how it goes and trust their word that they will not abandon us like they have in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dow Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, musterpilot said: I won't be paying every month or once a year for a flight sim Don't close your mind to it. I'm a committed one time one payment simmer but if I can get photoreal TE quality VFR around the world for $10-20 a month I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Q Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, tuisong said: I only hope that they can find some permanent way of stopping W10 from disconnecting my controllers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Q Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Amen to that!!! I use FSUIPC and Spad.NEXT for all but a few of my controls, and my setup does not use mouse or keyboard for anything once a flight is set up. So I have several controllers, with dozens of individual buttons, switches, etc. Just the other day Windows 10 did an "update" and it set all of the native FSX control settings to the "default" . That created double settings, consequently nothing worked right until I went into the FSX control menu and deleted all of the "joystick assignments.". It took over an hour. Wasted an afternoon of flying time! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medx421 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I'm just asking because as a p3d user, I don't know, but do the True Earth products have seasonal changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I'm reinstalling FSX Steam. It was an all day download-install. At the end there was an update that took about an hour and a half. I'm thinking this might be the new FSX. Being an old fart I retire early but tomorrow I will setup and start installing scenery etc. And hopefully do some flying. At my earliest opportunity I will post my findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heaton Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, tuisong said: I feel that the reason for not including seasons at the outset has been well explained by the development team. And quite frankly I agree with their reasoning. As for paying a subscription, I would happy do so, especially if it means that any updates are done automatically and I don't have to continually play around with keeping a multitude of different programmes up to date. One programme will may do all I want. (I think) We will see I guess. And as I have fiber right to the beginning of my LAN, unlimited data and unrestricted speed I don't anticipate any problems in that regard, And I have no interest in VR, how do I find my controls and switches? I only hope that they can find some permanent way of stopping W10 from disconnecting my controllers I will be an early adopter, see how it goes and trust their word that they will not abandon us like they have in the past. Just get a little bolder my Kiwi friend - old age brings lots of time for Simming and playing games @ 83YO - 2 years ago - I bought an X BOX ONE X - 4K HDR10 - and a corresponding 43"TV for my bedroom PC set up - (She who must be obeyed refused to let me use the X Box on the lounge TV.) I bought a $10 /m subscription and I get all the games I want on my PC and Xbox - most in 4K - nothing paid since - except a steering wheel for all the driving games In the same 2 years returning to Flght Simming after an absence - I have spent a ridiculous amount of dollars on PD3 and X Plane - on a raft of Orbx Oceana - and UK scenery - plus copies of all the GA aircraft I have flown in real life - (Just Flight Loves me) - and a couple Of really modern GA that I haven't flown I manage to get by with my mid range PC in the flight sims - but to bring it up to scratch will cost me around $2500 - so MS 2020 - on the new X BOX Two in Aug/Sept at around $600 - is a no brainer - particularly since my current games sub might only need a small increase to enjoy all that MS 2020 can give at full on speeds - in 4KHDR Now --- on the subject you and others have a problem with W10 turning off your settings - have you made sure that you have turned OFF permission for MS to control your power supply to your USB drivers ---- See Device Management - Human Interface Devices - and properties of controllers - to turn off MS management of power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Q Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, John Heaton said: Now --- on the subject you and others have a problem with W10 turning off your settings - have you made sure that you have turned OFF permission for MS to control your power supply to your USB drivers ---- See Device Management - Human Interface Devices - and properties of controllers - to turn off MS management of power Thanks much for the tip. Will look at this tomorrow! I f this works, GREAT. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sawatzky Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Ken Q said: Amen to that!!! I use FSUIPC and Spad.NEXT for all but a few of my controls, and my setup does not use mouse or keyboard for anything once a flight is set up. So I have several controllers, with dozens of individual buttons, switches, etc. Just the other day Windows 10 did an "update" and it set all of the native FSX control settings to the "default" . That created double settings, consequently nothing worked right until I went into the FSX control menu and deleted all of the "joystick assignments.". It took over an hour. Wasted an afternoon of flying time! Ken One of the beauties of using P3D is I don't have to worry about this anymore, it allows me to export all my settings to an .xml file and I can import them back with a click of the mouse at any time even after a new install of everything, love it and saves so much time and work as I age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 One of the major drawbacks of FS2020 is, that there will be no seasons. For many simmers seasons are an absolute must. Also, MS advertises real world weather in realtime as one of the selectable main features of the new sim. I'm afraid this then will only be usable during a few months of the year in many regions, because flying in a snowstorm over summer textures is not as eal as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk mike Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Nobody has categorically stated that "there will be no seasons", have they? What they HAVE said is that its something they are looking to implement if the demand is high enough, and if they do it at all, they want to do it PROPERLY. As one of the devs stated, "Orange trees are NOT seasons". Quite how serious they were about the flocks of birds migrating North, or South is unknown, but judging by their passion, I wouldn't be at all surprised! And...as has been pointed out, the data for animal migratory habits is out there! Maybe they were smiling, but not really joking. Personally, I couldn't give a damn about seasons in their current flight sim form. However, if they are done with the enthusiasm and attention to detail that Asobo are evidently bringing to the table, I might be converted yet. Did they mention Polar bears and AI Snow-ploughs? I think they did. As for VR...well, it is a high priority. They've said as much. The development team LOVES VR, we have heard as much (from the horses mouth), and whilst it might not make the release, they do seem fairly committed to bringing VR to MSFS 2020, once they've got it right! I've not yet used VR. I'm looking forwards to it, other than harbouring some vague trepidation about not being able to go back to monitor flying once I've experienced it! Subscription? Where is the definitive evidence that MSFS 2020 will be subscription based? I'm not saying there isn't any, but everything I've seen so far (from the development team) seems to suggest that 'game pass' is confirmed, to allow people to try it, but......beyond that, they are unsure/non committal? The devs have stated that they themselves aren't really in favour of it, one dev saying "that the community will want what they are used to", and yet another suggesting it will be available for outright purchase. Simply saying "it LOOKS LIKELY that MSFS 2020 will be subscription based" is just an opinion, which MAY become fact, or may not. If someone could post a link to a statement (written interview or video) from the development team, then that would of course clarify. Again, personally, if its subscription based, its all fine and dandy by me. What is clear, (rather unsurprisingly) is that the resistance/negativity towards MSFS 2020 by 'some' simmers is proportionate to the investiture they have in P3D, rather than forged from the announcements and visual content in the weekly videos. 'Sometimes'..... the same individuals that were ridiculing us FSX users for living in the dark ages with out outdated dinosaur sims! Well, they aren't laughing now ! Suck it up boys, its coming! It IS coming! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 How should they implement seasons, when the whole thing is based on Bing in real time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hello, I doubt very much if any of the simulator's developers will come along here and answer your question. I expect that it is a challenge but the answer lies with the development team who if they have mentioned that they might consider it, presumably have some idea of how it might be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauer Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Woulden't surprise me if you get a basic MSFS2020 package and require an additional monthly subscription for the scenery quality as seen in videos displayed. Just my thoughts! Herman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuisong Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 14 hours ago, John Heaton said: Now --- on the subject you and others have a problem with W10 turning off your settings - have you made sure that you have turned OFF permission for MS to control your power supply to your USB drivers ---- See Device Management - Human Interface Devices - and properties of controllers - to turn off MS management of power Hi John, thank you very much for the tip. After all the years I have put up with this problem and the request for help, this is the first time I have heard of it. I am looking forward to putting it into action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusterman Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Go to FSElite and view the November 17 interview with the developers. The video provides information applicable to the discussion above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolf Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Thanks but the question now is - What cool things are you working on? wanna give us some hints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Thanks Lars. Well, the first impediment for me is a subscription, there's no way. And no seasons, no way. I have Orbx's TE stuff with no seasons and tolerate it but in another sim, forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJay Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Well, it depends on how many additional addons are required. If you really get what you see here for 120 $ a year and it replaces any landscape addon, it`s of course interesting. I just don't dare to imagine what that means for companies like ORBX. I hope they will find their niche to develop for in that simulator if that is the case. It also depends on the airports and the aircraft. As good as it might look, I guess any generic scenery rendering will never give you airport buildings in the details they are seen now in very good sceneries of very good developers. For aerial images, yes. But how does MSFS want to know how the front of Terminal 2 in Frankfurt looks like or how it is illuminated??... Same with the aircraft: As soon as there is some kind of "generic" look to anything, addon developers come in to the show. And the fact that PMDG is developing their 737 for it, it seems even more logical, that especially aircraft are not that level by default, at least not in terms of systems. Furthermore, I'm curious about the PC specs needed for that. But the most important question to me is for now: Has Microsoft bought the rights back from LM?? Or can LM carry on with their P3D independant from MSFS 2020??? I with the latter, because there is no reason to hurry for a switch to MSFS as good as P3D is running right now. I don't like monopolys there.. Regards, Dominik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lars Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, DeeJay said: Has Microsoft bought the rights back from LM?? Or can LM carry on with their P3D independant from MSFS 2020??? That's an excellent question. Actually, I liked LM's study / training attitude towards the product, which did it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Sandmann Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hi there, Quote Has Microsoft bought the rights back from LM?? Or can LM carry on with their P3D independant from MSFS 2020??? no need to worry, there's nothing to "buy back": Microsoft licensed its ESP code base to Lockheed Martin 'in perpetuity' for further development as they see fit for military and academic purposes. Source, for example: https://www.defensedaily.com/lockheed-martin-incorporates-microsoft-flight-simulator-t-x-offering/business-financial/ Cheers, Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusterman Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Holger is correct. LM uses Microsoft ESP as the basis for its simulator. It is not Microsoft Flight Simulator. The primary customer for P3D is the Government and they will determine the fate of P3D. LM is a Government contractor in business to make profits for its stakeholders and will do whatever is required to maintain profits. As we have seen with previous Microsoft behavior, having more viable flight simulator choices is good for the community, as they all have features that appeal to different segments of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetite Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I don't mind paying a small subscription fee. From 2015-2018 I paid for a WoW subscription, which was $15 USD per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Dodger Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 This is all very exciting. A long way now from those early days of MSFS in the 1980’s. Thanks for posting, Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaab Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 9:09 PM, Holger Sandmann said: the most likely approach would be dynamic shaders (which can be overlays for ground textures too), where textures change based on environmental conditions; not necessarily based on current weather but also latitude, elevation, climate models, etc. Certainly not trivial but it can be done. See this example from the Unity game engine, which is based on calendar date: Any chance to see such feature implemented one day in TE sceneries ? Except NL, I am reluctant to get them because of missing seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patful Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 The cockpit video is the first one that didn't blow me away. Looks great of course, but the A2A Bonanza gauges have spoiled me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfko Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 9:09 PM, Holger Sandmann said: Hi Wolfgang, the most likely approach would be dynamic shaders (which can be overlays for ground textures too), where textures change based on environmental conditions; not necessarily based on current weather but also latitude, elevation, climate models, etc. Certainly not trivial but it can be done. See this example from the Unity game engine, which is based on calendar date: Cheers, Holger Now that's interesting. Thanks for the explanation Holger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Interesting opinion about what we have now and what we have invested so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnost Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 All very interesting, but a subscription fee does not worry me. What I am more concerned about is the required internet speed for smooth HD terrain presentation downloaded from the cloud. I can get up to nearly 1 Gb/sec for maybe 8 times the cost a game subscription, and that would be real money! Intel Core i7-7700K @ 4.6 GHz; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti 11GB GDDR5X; ASRock Z270 K6 Gaming MB, 16GB DDR4-3000 RAM; 500GB SSD + 2TB HDD; Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; 34" 21:9 curved 4K Monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 5 hours ago, johnost said: What I am more concerned about is the required internet speed for smooth HD terrain At home I have about 6-7 max MBS, so anyway it's a no no for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lars Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 I have lately upgraded to a 100 MBit/s connection, that's 12,5 MB/s. I have no idea how far I come with that. Anyways, there's no point for reasoning further about this point for me because that's as fast as it gets in my corner of the world - 100 MBit/s is quite fast for Germany, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2DR Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 IMNSOH, MSF2020 has nothing to do with flight simulation and everything to do with eye-candy. There is no way I'm using my bandwidth for a friggin' eye-candy experience................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridvan Celik Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, W2DR said: IMNSOH, MSF2020 has nothing to do with flight simulation and everything to do with eye-candy. There is no way I'm using my bandwidth for a friggin' eye-candy experience................. Their discovery series on aerodynamics pretty much makes your statement invalid but I guess we will have to see on release... also when high fidelity aircraft developers change their plans to make a certain aircraft specifically for the new sim it really does reassure the community on the new sims potential. They wouldn’t make that decision without seeing what the sim is capable of. My two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Captain Lars said: I have lately upgraded to a 100 MBit/s connection, that's 12,5 MB/s. I have no idea how far I come with that. Anyways, there's no point for reasoning further about this point for me because that's as fast as it gets in my corner of the world - 100 MBit/s is quite fast for Germany, actually. Dang, that's wicked fast Lars. I have AT&T fiber right to the PC and I get 65 Mbps up and 62 Mbps down. Quite nice where you are! But even with that, and even if it's sufficient, I wouldn't buy a subscription unless it's REALLY good. I mean it would have to have all the PMDG planes, hopefully A2A, and most of all, Orbx brand airports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeaglefire Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 yet another flight sim... take it or leave it... not even Alpha 1! (we can call that a significant delay)... probably will purchase Day 1 - whenever that may be - & then have to wait, wait, wait for VR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lars Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack Sawyer said: Dang, that's wicked fast Lars. I have AT&T fiber right to the PC and I get 65 Mbps up and 62 Mbps down. Quite nice where you are! But even with that, and even if it's sufficient, I wouldn't buy a subscription unless it's REALLY good. I mean it would have to have all the PMDG planes, hopefully A2A, and most of all, Orbx brand airports. 65 MBit/s isn't bad at all, actually it's quite good. I had 50 till approx. september and was quite content with it. I upgraded mainly because 100 cost the same as 50 do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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