announcement openLC Africa status

[John Venema]

Hello everyone,

 

I feel that an explanation regarding the long delay with openLC Africa is due, out of courtesy to the many people who have been anticipating its release, and have done so for some years now.

 

openLC Africa has been in development on and off for 2.5 years since openLC South America was released. It was always intended for release by the end of 2017 or early 2018. However, its development was sidetracked by three other side projects worked on by the developer - TrueEarth Netherlands for AFS2/P3D, R&D work on a possible Orbx Global for X-Plane and the port of TrueEarth GB South from X-Plane to Prepar3D.

 

We have been given some WIP screenshots and I posted these up a week or so ago. However, as you can appreciate, we cannot beta test screenshots so it leaves us in a bit of an awkward position. For that reason I have hidden that preview topic for now as I do not want to give anyone the impression that a release is any closer than it is. We are working with the developer to ensure we do receive a beta for OLC Africa.

 

We announced the openLC series quite a few years ago. When we publish a roadmap we always preface it with a clear caveat that nothing we share is confirmed as a product we will actually ship, but only our intention to develop it in the future. Whilst we did intend to cover the whole world with openLC products it was always a stretch goal. Since that initial announcement our staff, resources and priorities have changed many times within our company. 

 

Orbx has a solid track record for delivering most of what we announce in our roadmaps but sometimes circumstances change and some projects never see the light of day, even if they have been worked on for years. Another example of that is our CityScape Cote Dazur which we no longer provide previews for because the painstakingly slow hand-built nature of how it is being developed has long been surpassed by new automated techniques we use for TrueEarth and mini regions around key airports.

 

In the software and games business, projects get cancelled all the time, even some big AAA game titles. Studios close down, business priorities change, market conditions change. We have not signed a contract with our customers for finishing openLC globally so whilst it may be disappointing for many of your that openLC Asia may never see the light of day, and openLC Africa is at risk, it is what it is. I have a duty however to be open and transparent about the project status.

 

If we can progress with the development of openLC Africa then we intend to beta test then ship it ASAP.  I'll keep everyone posted on that front.

[jordancollins]

When 2020 comes out will you guys just be focusing on Airports? 

[oldboy43]

Thank you John.

cheers

Karoly

[Peter Webber]

With this typical type of anouncement, I believe with the advent of MSFS 2020, it's not just OLC Africa at risk, but the whole company.....sorry to say.

[Nick Cooper]

Hello Peter Webber,

your beliefs are your own and your post is wildly off topic.

No one outside the industry knows what the future holds

for the next flight simulator, which is why there is so much

idle speculation about what will or will not be.

 

These forums are open to facts about the new simulator, when

published by Microsoft and indeed comments on those facts.

There are other forums, at Avsim and even reddit where you

can share your speculation with others who find it entertaining.

[Geezer]

This confirms what I've been saying for the last ear plus in spite of some Orbx people denying.

 

Orbx is pretty much done with FSX products.  

 

Nick, that's the way it is unless the new FSX changes things. 

[KVSandleben]

1 hour ago, Peter Webber said:

With this typical type of anouncement, I believe with the advent of MSFS 2020, it's not just OLC Africa at risk, but the whole company.....sorry to say.

You are going way overboard with your assumptions.

Orbx has always had a mixed portfolio. Yes, the times of LandClass based regional packages seem to be ending. But as long as people use P3D there is still a market for it.

And the rest of what ORBX does is Airport Sceneries. And those will not suddenly fall out of demand with MSFS. If at all the demand will probably rise.

[wolfko]

Thank you very much JV for explaining the situation, this is very much appreciated. However you should have bitten back the thing with the contract for finishing Open LC. But if you had, you wouldn't be the JV we all know for years now. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

 

[wolfko]

2 hours ago, jordancollins said:

When 2020 comes out will you guys just be focusing on Airports? 

 

2020 will be just one sim between others. Or do you really think P3D or XP will be abandoned? For running FS 2020 the way it is shown in the preview videos, one will need hardware likeng like the "Summit" supercomputer. Not everybody can afford this.

[The Merowinger]

10 minutes ago, wolfko said:

For running FS 2020 the way it is shown in the preview videos, one will need hardware likeng like the "Summit" supercomputer. Not everybody can afford this.

 

This is not for sure, you can't measure the demand of hardware comparing with the outdated and inefficient way FSX is coded (and P3D partially too).

 

Kai

[jordancollins]

45 minutes ago, wolfko said:

 

2020 will be just one sim between others. Or do you really think P3D or XP will be abandoned? For running FS 2020 the way it is shown in the preview videos, one will need hardware likeng like the "Summit" supercomputer. Not everybody can afford this.

I think P3D and Xplane will be a thing of the past for MOST people. 

[Sabretooth78]

1 hour ago, KVSandleben said:

You are going way overboard with your assumptions.

Orbx has always had a mixed portfolio. Yes, the times of LandClass based regional packages seem to be ending. But as long as people use P3D there is still a market for it.

And the rest of what ORBX does is Airport Sceneries. And those will not suddenly fall out of demand with MSFS. If at all the demand will probably rise.

 

I agree.  Surely some adaptation will be necessary, but if ORBX or any other entity isn't able to adapt then they don't really have any business being in business in the first place.

 

For one thing, even if MSFS2020 were to release tomorrow (and I would certainly jump on it myself), we're probably going to have to deal with a sort of multi-sim interregnum for at least a few years while the new sim plays catch up in the areas where it needs to play catch up.  Even MSFS2004 still has a loyal following to this day - who'd believe that!?  Those who think it is going to be everything to everybody, right off the bat, are clearly delusional.  For sure it'll be a much better foundation than FSX/P3D, but there will still be plenty of demand for lipstick - nor am I one to expect continual point updates from Microsoft going forward such as we see from LM and LR.  I then wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being an awesome offering that then gets abandoned and goes stagnant from a development perspective - come 2030 it could well be what FSX was before 64-bit P3D and XP finally shook up the paradigm somewhat.

 

The other elephant in the room is the scope of what will be the new default content.  We don't seem to be getting previews based in the less glamorous corners of the world, and understandably so.  Supposedly some 400 cities will be receiving the optimal treatment - leaving one to assume all the others will be akin to the "standard" treatments in FSX.  Only difference, this time we'll have better "vector" data and won't have to deal with airports with woefully inaccurate location and facility data.  Hopefully.  (Frankly I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to recycle a bunch of the 2006 FSX data where it suits them.  We shall see.)

 

So Vector and LC updates are perhaps dead in the water and if so, from a user perspective, thank [your deity of choice] for that.  However, I agree, the ORBX hallmark smallish GA-focused fields with the all-too ignored intermediate airports that few other developers dare to touch should have more of a place than ever.  Based on what I've seen so far, flying around the MSFS2020 world and landing at some disgraceful representation of a backcountry strip will be far more jarring than the same exercise in default FSX/P3D.  It would seem to follow that some spiritual successor to the CityScene line should find a prosperous home in the new sim as well.

 

But this isn't about MSFS2020.  It's about the B738 I've had sitting at Gran Canaria for some months now just waiting to make that hop across to Dakar and onward to explore the Dark Continent.  The sooner the better, but we've waited this long and there's a big rest of the world out there in the meantime.

[Sniper31]

Thank you for the transparency and update JV, it is very appreciated. 

[BrettT]

Thank you for the candor and transparency!

[Steve Ruiz]

3 hours ago, wolfko said:

 

 For running FS 2020 the way it is shown in the preview videos, one will need hardware likeng like the "Summit" supercomputer.

There you go making assumptions just like the ones you are defending against. Settle down and go flying

[Geezer]

A problem imo is there have been several expiations with so many confliction  and promises.  JV, it was some months ago that you promised to have Holger head Asia and get that going and also get would get Africa going with a finish before this year.  It's all been very confusing.  Anyway, it looks like neither will ever get done.  Too bad. 

[Johan Pienaar]

I would be very disappointed if Africa does not pull through as it is one of the regions I have been eagerly waited for and will buy on day 1. I stay in South Africa and like "bush flying" and I created many simple strips using SbuilderX and ADE for my personal use. Africa has been very much neglected by mainstream developers, which is understandable, and I can not see MSF2020 providing a magic solution for the continent.

 

Johan Pienaar

  

[Juanvito]

Not gonna lie, this is a bit disappointing.

[jordancollins]

I could care less about openlc asia to be honest. When is BUR coming, Ill bet ya sell a hell of a lot more copies of BUR then OpenLc 

[penta_a]

Honestly, it was very much expected, it was my #1 look out and waiting for product due to currently poor coverage of NAME area with every available sim, Orbx was my only hope to bring a decent product to improve things, but since MSFS was announced and when I watched/read about the potential of the new sim I dropped all future add-on purchase for P3D sim (I own them all, but I only enjoy P3D V4.5), and just waiting for the future.

thanks Orbx for the great work and I'm sure you will maintain the best scenery/airports provider for MSFS.

 

Ali A.

[Guus7]

I look forward to the FTX "OpenLC Africa", one of the biggest challenges in beauty and navigation!

 

Regards, Guus.

[tokuo_bbb]

I am waiting for Asia.

 

From Japan.

[anzac1977]

Very disappointing news on Africa and Asia.

 

Guess my future obrx purchases are at risk now.

[rockliffe]

Thanks for your openness JV, appreciated.

[Nick Cooper]

16 hours ago, Sabretooth78 said:

But this isn't about MSFS2020. 

 

Hello,

this is the one correct observation made in this topic about another simulator that is still in development.

The topic is open LC Africa, so if you have a comment to make, please make it about open LC Africa,

or even open LC Asia but no more idle speculation about what is to come from Microsoft or what Orbx

might be doing about it.

With a bit of luck, we will still have open LC Africa, I have my fingers crossed. 

[AnkH]

While I totally understand the decision now, it is still a pity as I was looking forward to OpenLC Asia way more than OpenLC Africa (due to the sceneries available and installed in my sim). And sadly, it is a wonderful example why certain products should not be anounced too early...

[F737MAX]

Deeply disappointed.
While I understand that Africa is not entirely within your control, the Asia announcement back in July of 'work starting in a week or so' feels like a huge misstep in light of yesterday's comment.

I'm also surprised by yesterday's reveal of Charleston, I had expected some Australian cities to complement Aus v2 or at least a US city, such as Denver or Boston, which are within easy reach of a cluster of Orbx airfields. The two previous US CityScene products and now Charleston are located some distance away from any Orbx or other developers' high-quality airport scenery. Surely that limits the potential for sales?

Consider this as customer feedback rather than a bash.
 

[sun_king_135]

To be honest, I was expecting this. And to be even more honest, I, too, reduced my purchases for P3D in anticipation of the new sim. Nevertheless, I don't think I'll switch immediately, as most others as well, since no one knows how stable it'll be, what the downside will be eg subscription model, what it'll take on HD space or system specs etc.. On the other hand I also think that the True Earth series was more or less a waste of time, especially when looking at GB South and the performance it has even on higher end computers. The resources may have been better used for the LC series. But, that's just me saying that

As I fly a lot in Asia, I wanted to purchase Asia and Africa LC as the final add on for this year and perhaps P3D. I think, I'm not speaking for myself but for many others, if I say that you should release Asia and Africa for P3D to not only complete the series a tad more, but also to not have wasted resources and men work for it.

 

Kind regards. 

 

 

[xuehua china]

我是一名来自中国的飞行爱好者，之前看到OpenLC Asia的时候我很激动一直在等但是结果真的很失望，我想知道到底OpenLC Asia还有希望吗。

[Nick Cooper]

Thanks.

Here is a translation for those of us who need it.

Google Translate

Quote

I am a flying lover from China. I was very excited when I saw OpenLC Asia. But the result was really disappointing. I want to know if OpenLC Asia still has hope.

 

[KIM Young]

Open LC Asia has been canceled?

[bradley27]

Where to start eh....

 

So maybe lets start at that gleaming illustrated map that was published some good few or so years ago that divided up the globe into pieces/priorities. I think it was Europe first, then the North Americas, Then Asia...and the rest followed suit. Having brought into this series up to the North Americas i was dying to see Asia get a rework as it is quite diabolical in many places and does need heller improved landclass and texturing. So with that set i set my hopes on Asia previews to follow; however instead South America suddenly popped up in its place and just like some twat pushing in front of you in a buffet line unexpectedly this didn't go down too well at the time. Anyway so South America jumps in, i decide to avoid it as personally no flying gets done in that region and tbh in the 15 or so plus years Ive simmed i have never flown over that part of the world but your choice to pick and choose products order in process is indeed your own and all we can do is sit back and wait. So with the news here today i find myself rather annoyed, feeling alittle bit cheated in some form as now what we all have is a series which is incomplete.

 

The reasons behind Africa sitting still are understood, data and the rest however if your previewing the product not too long ago then you cant really tease buyers and then turn round and say...."but it might not happen actually". I guess that same line goes for the Nice Cote 'D Azur project which even i gave up hope for seeing donkeys years ago following its massive set backs.

 

When you started to roll out the TrueEarth series i was like everyone else; absolutely shocked at how brilliant and stunning it looked and it is a fabulous idea and attention to detail is second to none however was it necessary?! Was it realistic in size for the user!? As i have mentioned before i refused to buy into TrueEarth due to its ridiculous file size and with most things when a series starts its only natural to want to continue buying into that series but hell how many hard drives would it take me to buy if i was to purchase what possibly could have been a far longer list of True Earth regions. Its not practical and tbh the FT Regions you started with...England, Ireland, Wales (still needs a config tool please), Scotland, Germany, Norway were all excellent and i have them all. A good realistic size in download and far better detail...you didn't really need to redo them all over again for a sim that barely manages frames with a payware Heathrow or Frankfurt, payware heavy and real weather engine.

 

I am annoyed because time has been wasted on these TE projects when OpenLC Asia, Africa and Antarctica were not finished and basically put on the bench to such a length that now its not even worth seeing them through. Take a bow and truly be proud of the TE work but i just dont see why it was needed for P3D.

 

The FT region project should technically be complete by now but such is life and oh well its too late now. lets move on eh....!?

 

 Im sticking with my 'incomplete' P3Dv4 setup which until now has been a saviour for us all and a joy to fly in.

 

 

[Nick Cooper]

Thanks,

rather than remove your perfectly valid post, I have edited it.

Some of your metaphors were a little too colourful for the forum.

I think your points are still well made without the parts I have removed.

[xuehua china]

I hope you can make Asia

[fahdriyami]

For once I actually don't mind the delay.

 

With MSFS 2020 on the horizon I've put a hold on purchases that are not discounted, and by the time OpenLC Africa is released and then discounted down the line, MSFS 2020 would probably already be out and it might no be worth investing in the P3D release. Or, if MSFS 2020 turns out to be not worth switching to, then I'd still be able to get OpenLC discounted.

In my opinion, there's just too much uncertainty at this point to make big investments in P3D.

[bradley27]

Bargain basement shopper clearly

[onlineflug]

I Hope to get Africa. Its the only Continent, there are nothing to geht in quality from any other Publisher.

[dave302]

On 11/20/2019 at 7:04 AM, John Venema said:

We have not signed a contract with our customers for finishing openLC globally so whilst it may be disappointing for many of your that openLC Asia may never see the light of day, and openLC Africa is at risk, it is what it is

Yes, it is very disappointing, and no, you didn't sign a contract with your customers guaranteeing delivery of your announced projects.  However, you have repeatedly teased projects over the years which have either never been completed or have taken several years longer than you said they would.  You stated more than once that openLC would cover the entire world within a few years.  It has been at least 5 years since the first openLC scenery was released and now you tell us that Asia is very likely dead and openLC Africa is at risk.  You could have completed both these scenery projects years ago but you made a conscious decision to put those on the back burner for more promising opportunities, e.g. X-plane projects which you said you would not do, and TrueEarth projects.  If you do not complete development of openLC Africa and openLC Asia then you will have broken your original agreement with your customers, plain and simple.

 

I really hope that you at least finish openLC Africa, especially considering all the work that has likely already been done on it and how long many of us have been waiting for it.  openLC Asia would have been nice but frankly I never believed you when you engaged in more hyperbole stating that it would be completed before the end of 2019, so it's no great surprise to me that this won't happen.

 

I really enjoy your products and have supported your company since its inception, so I do applaud you for all your great products which have enriched the flight simulation experience.  However, you have lost a lot of credibility not only from me but many others in the flightsim community.  Hopefully you can regain it by doing what you said you would do.

 

Dave

[hussar_lasalle]

I hope Asia gets some love other than OpenLC . On other side FS2020 wont change fact that people invested lots $ in current sims and will continue  using it,  just like FSX

[RTK1972]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:04 PM, John Venema said:

Hello everyone,

 

I feel that an explanation regarding the long delay with openLC Africa is due, out of courtesy to the many people who have been anticipating its release, and have done so for some years now.

 

openLC Africa has been in development on and off for 2.5 years since openLC South America was released. It was always intended for release by the end of 2017 or early 2018. However, its development was sidetracked by three other side projects worked on by the developer - TrueEarth Netherlands for AFS2/P3D, R&D work on a possible Orbx Global for X-Plane and the port of TrueEarth GB South from X-Plane to Prepar3D.

 

We have been given some WIP screenshots and I posted these up a week or so ago. However, as you can appreciate, we cannot beta test screenshots so it leaves us in a bit of an awkward position. For that reason I have hidden that preview topic for now as I do not want to give anyone the impression that a release is any closer than it is. We are working with the developer to ensure we do receive a beta for OLC Africa.

 

We announced the openLC series quite a few years ago. When we publish a roadmap we always preface it with a clear caveat that nothing we share is confirmed as a product we will actually ship, but only our intention to develop it in the future. Whilst we did intend to cover the whole world with openLC products it was always a stretch goal. Since that initial announcement our staff, resources and priorities have changed many times within our company. 

 

Orbx has a solid track record for delivering most of what we announce in our roadmaps but sometimes circumstances change and some projects never see the light of day, even if they have been worked on for years. Another example of that is our CityScape Cote Dazur which we no longer provide previews for because the painstakingly slow hand-built nature of how it is being developed has long been surpassed by new automated techniques we use for TrueEarth and mini regions around key airports.

 

In the software and games business, projects get cancelled all the time, even some big AAA game titles. Studios close down, business priorities change, market conditions change. We have not signed a contract with our customers for finishing openLC globally so whilst it may be disappointing for many of your that openLC Asia may never see the light of day, and openLC Africa is at risk, it is what it is. I have a duty however to be open and transparent about the project status.

 

If we can progress with the development of openLC Africa then we intend to beta test then ship it ASAP.  I'll keep everyone posted on that front.

honest post but much to late. I am out for any future Orbx Product. You have  decided, Orbx