Raymie Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 After updating KTVL to the latest version, I am now experiencing a CTD when choosing this airport to either begin a flight from, or as a destination airport. --From the Scenerio Setup, I selected KTVL to begin my flight. I click okay. --As the scenery loading begins, P3D ver. 3.14 crashes directly to desktop. If I choose KTVL as my destination airport, within approx. 10 miles or less from KTVL, the flight momentarily freezes, I seem to loose sound and then P3D CTD. -- I uninstalled this latest version of KTVL and used the "default" KTVL airport scenery--all is fine--there is no CTD's. Tonight I installed again the updated version of KTVL and P3D went directly into CTD as KTVL scenery began to load. I had no problems with the previous version of this airport. I hope this issue can be resolved as I really enjoy this addon airport rather than the default one. -- Finally, I have attached both the central log as well as the App Crash for this event. I hope both of these items will help in discovering what is causing this issue. If for some reason, this issue cannot be corrected, is there any way I can get the previous version? central.log App Crash.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Hello, I am rather surprised that the update was made available to those other than P3D v 4.5.13.32097 as it was designed to address a specific problem with that version only. I am not surprised to read that the P3D v 4.5 version causes a crash in other simulator versions. Unfortunately, I do not have the original file but attach a copy of the FSX version in case it might help. ORBX_KTVL_APX.BGL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymie Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Thanks Nick for your reply. In light of your explanation, not sure why the update showed up in my Orbx Central (yellow dot and update available). Will download and try the version for FSX and hope for the best. It may work as both sims are 32 bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymie Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Hi Nick, Sorry to have to ask this--not familiar at all with scenery, will need some help here to install your attached BGL file. -- First, I assume I must install KTVL again via Orbx Central?? If so, then do I, -- Go to the main Orbx Folder in P3D? If yes, then -- Do I go to the FTX_NA subfolder? If yes, then -- I should find the KTVL folder and place the attached BGL file within it? If that's the case, then if there is an overwrite request, I should do so? Thanks for your help on this, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Hello Ray, please rename the existing file so that it is not overwritten. The exact location is your P3D root folder\ORBX\FTX_NA\FTX_AA_KTVL\Scenery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymie Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Thanks Nick! I now am able to enjoy KTVL again.. Appreciate your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Cajic Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hi Ray, Thanks for reporting, not sure why it was made available to you in the first place. I'll let the IT team know! Cheers, Misha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hello Misha, already done, some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Gentlemen, this BGL file for KTVL is by far not what it should be. I sometimes ask myself what your designers base their Navigational data upon? In this specific case the LOC and DME positions are completely wrong. The exact location of the LOC antenna (including DME) array is even shown in the photorealistic part a few hundred meters NNE from the northern RWY end. Is that sooo difficult to model correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hello, which file are you referring to please, the attached FSX file, the P3D original or the P3D replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, which file are you referring to please, the attached FSX file, the P3D original or the P3D replacement? The one named "ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl" that comes with the original install of V1.1.1 in P3DV4. It shows incorrect positions of LOC and DME and furthermore incorrect bearing of the (offset by 5.5°) LOC. If the designers are lacking correct data, I would happily provide correct values. I was a former NavDatabase Engineer at a leading Navdata Provider Company and have still access to almost worldwide ARINC NavData. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hello, thanks. As @Misha Cajic has made clear, he defers to another developer for these files. Perhaps he can pass this information on and changes can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, thanks. As @Misha Cajic has made clear, he defers to another developer for these files. Perhaps he can pass this information on and changes can be made. Hi Nick, Yes I know, I have read the respective thread. Nevertheless I'm greatly disappointed by these designers. ORBX is regarded as one of the leading companies in AddOn Design. I therefore would expect that designers coping with Navigational Data are aware of the available sources for correct data. There is no need whatsoever to publish a single wrong BGL defining airport Navdata. The sources ARE available and it needs only a few minutes to find correct data. Sometimes it gives me the impression that the designers use a somewhat flippant approach to these data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hello, I really have no idea and will not be making a comment on another person's method of working. If I have an opinion, it is that the simulator navaid database is years out of date and full of inaccuracies. This is the fault of the simulator, not the developer and the ramifications of replacing out of date data with up to date data already cause unintended consequences. This is neither a comment on what you wrote, nor is it a comment on what Orbx developers may do, it is simply my personal opinion on these matters. There is a difference between the customer who strives for an absolutely accurate representation of the current real world and the customer who is prepared to accept that it is a simulator from 2006 at best and will not always reflect today. The programs to add the necessary files for the first customer are available, in both freeware and payware guises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 42 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello, I really have no idea and will not be making a comment on another person's method of working. If I have an opinion, it is that the simulator navaid database is years out of date and full of inaccuracies. This is the fault of the simulator, not the developer and the ramifications of replacing out of date data with up to date data already cause unintended consequences. This is neither a comment on what you wrote, nor is it a comment on what Orbx developers may do, it is simply my personal opinion that these matters. There is a difference between the customer who strives for an absolutely accurate representation of the current real world and the customer who is prepared to accept that it is a simulator from 2006 at best and will not always reflect today. The programs to add the necessary files for the first customer are available, in both freeware and payware guises. Yes Nick, We could go back and forth with arguments on this subject. However the last two sentences really disappoint me, even if - as you clearly stated - they are based upon your personal opinion. "...that it is a simulator from 2006 at best and will not always reflect today". I ask myself why ORBX and other devs are designing very accurate and up-to-date renditions of any scenery, but in particular of course airport scenery, if they think that accurate Navdata is not necessary just because the simulator is "outdated". You might be aware that there are two major Navdata Providers that offer worlwide accurate Navdata based on actual AIRAC cycles and many simmers are making use of these, especially for flights between superbly modelled airports reflecting today's state using flight planning utilities also based on actual data. In this respect your opinion is simply "outdated", so to speak. The last sentence however "The programs to add the necessary files for the first customer are available, in both freeware and payware guises" is not really what should be heard from someone representing a major Add-On Company. I'm not commenting this any further but it leaves me with a bitter taste... EDIT: BTW, the Stock Airport Rendition of KTVL in APX16180.bgl shows correct location and bearing of the Nav Installation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hello. I realise that you are not happy with the answer and I did not expect you to be. That is why I made it absolutely clear that the opinion that followed was mine and not that of the company. I am disappointed that you have decided to see it as company policy despite having been told that it is not. Quote it is simply my personal opinion on these matters. Although I do provide customer support on behalf of the company, I am also entitled to my own opinions. From what I had read on the forums and I now read in your own reply, large numbers of customers have taken it upon themselves to update all of the navigation data, using the available software. It was this that I was referring to in my comment: Quote "The programs to add the necessary files for the first customer are available, in both freeware and payware guises" which I assume you misunderstood, since you seem to have read it and then told me about the programs as if I was not aware of them. What did you think I meant? Orbx make only a tiny fraction of the airports available in the simulators, so it makes sense to me that if a customer wants the correct worldwide navigation data, they should resort to one of these programs that cover them all. I see no problem in referring to them, as it is not a service that Orbx offer, or indeed intend to offer. The fact that the navigation data for this airport is incorrect is another matter and for the developer to explain to you, as he has been asked to and I hope he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Cajic Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Hi, I'll look at correcting the APX over the next few days. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 11 hours ago, Misha Cajic said: Hi, I'll look at correcting the APX over the next few days. Cheers Thanks, Misha. If you need correct values for the navaids, I'll be glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Cajic Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Hi Oskar, Can you please give the attached file a try and let me know if its ok/if there's anything that needs changing? Cheers, Misha ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Misha Cajic said: Hi Oskar, Can you please give the attached file a try and let me know if its ok/if there's anything that needs changing? Cheers, Misha ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl 10.41 kB · 0 downloads Hi Misha, Thanks for forwarding the file. I checked the positions of the navaids in question and found the DME still out of place. The correct positions of the Navaids are: LDA ITVL 38.910183333 -119.989480556 TrueCourse 187.40° DME ITVL 38.910044444 -119.988802778 no BIAS Perhaps you could forward these values to your AFD designer. Thanks for taking your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Hello again, is this any better? ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Nick Cooper said: Hello again, is this any better? ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl 10.41 kB · 1 download Yep, almost perfect ! just disable the backcourse on the LOC and you're done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Here we are. ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewulf47 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Nick Cooper said: Here we are. ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl 10.41 kB · 0 downloads Purrrphect ! Thanks, Nick, for your efforts! Of course like for LYBE the same wish to incorporate this change is a future update from ORBX is present... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymie Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 Orbx Central has done it again to me--it automatically updated my KTVL (P3D 3.4) to the latest update that causes my P3D to CTD when I select this airport as my departure airport. I copied & pasted the ORBX_KTVL_APX.bgl that Nick sent to me and all is fine. I do not know why Orbx Central is doing this to me as I try to talk nicely to her!! Raymie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Hello Raymie , I asked on 13th November for this to be fixed and have been told that it has been added to a list of tasks. I would suggest that in the meantime, you disable automatic updates. You can do this either globally or for individual products, as you wish. EDIT: I understand that this is being fixed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymie Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 Thanks Nick for your reply. Raymie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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