Have you guys tried the EZ-Dock Camera

[NaveenB]

Just got it last night, it has alot of functionality esp. for those budding movie makers.

But even with just the default camera: Ez-Dock+A2A cub+PacNW+Activesky = Jaw on the floor!  It's amazing.

It doesn't work with Track IR, I have track IR and love track IR, but this is a little different and provides a new type of experience.

Give it a shot, it's flight one so you can return it of you don't like it.

Cheers

[Phil Manhart]

I bought it, and am currently asking for a refund from Flight1 for it...

Install was a pain (I had to install it in my exe.xml manually so it would load and set it to manual load so I could load it at just the right time for it to stay loaded and not quit itself).

Use was a pain

Uninstall was a huge pain (I'm still finding left-over files and folders...)

But, your mileage may vary. I'll admit I liked the effects (when they worked), but the lack of TrackIR functionality at the same time and the amount of time it takes to set it up in addon aircraft were the straws that broke the camel's back. I'll probably come back to it once the community develops (if it does), and if they find a way to make TrackIR and EZcamera work at the same time, I'm sold.

[HercFan]

I am monitoring the development. I ALWAYS adopt a wait and see attitude with add-ons (and sorry, and with all due respect) from Russian developers. Don't flame for this.

Seems updates are on the way, and I will keep monitoring. But I am interested.

[NaveenB]

Install was a pain (I had to install it in my exe.xml manually so it would load and set it to manual load so I could load it at just the right time for it to stay loaded and not quit itself).

Use was a pain

Uninstall was a huge pain (I'm still finding left-over files and folders...)

Isn't it funny how in flight simming two people can have two different expereinces with the same addon, mine went right in no problem.

I agree that having to add additional cameras for addon craft is a pain, as is reloading the config.exe whenever you add a craft.  But I can see the possibilities for this thing, and that brief moment of *full immersion* I had last night over PacNW is like a highly addictive drug I keep chasing.

[Phil Manhart]

I agree, it's great when it's setup.

It's also a VERY powerful tool for setting up cameras, I just wish the implementation was a bit different. I couldn't find a way to switch camera views (like using S and A in default views), with the EZcamera view. It's very 'un'immersive to have to click on them with a mouse. And without a spare keypad sitting around, trying to program the views on my yoke would take an enter hat switch away from my current setup. The way I had to set it up was have a yoke button use a "list" command and cycle through the number buttons on the keyboard (but you can't go back on the list, so getting back to the pilot view was a matter of consistently pushing the button through the entire list of views). I'm interested to see how you've set it up.

Like I said, if they fix some of the problems and make it a little more user friendly, I'd be back onboard.

[NaveenB]

Since it basically stole my keypad keys 1-3, I just assigned the other views to the remaining numbers so they are a button click away, then I homogenized the controls in various planes

7= always cockpit/pilot

8= panel

9= outside chase.

etc...

I like how the panning has a component of momentum, which helps me NOT miss my Track-IR too much, it looks much more natural than the fast and robotic default panning with the hat switch.

[teecee]

I know very little about this product, though I followed it's development on the forums, however, as a non track IR simmer, I think I might be interested for the inertia effect alone, not too sure about all the extra view, I would rarely use those I think. Any chance of someone posting a vid (not one of the promos, I have seen those) just of the inertia effect in the VC view, maybe a landing or some such? Teecee.

[John Dow]

Reckon I'd be interested in a 'lite' version that gives the shaking effects only, and is compatible with TrackIR.  Until then I've got too much of other FS projects to do, like flying PNW!

[Patrick Scharnowski]

I bought it today after they fixed the problems with W7 x64. The controls take a little getting used to, but after a while I got the hang of it and setting up new cameras is very easy. The whole inertia thing is fantastic and increased the sense of realism immensly! The constant slight movement of the head gives you a very real impression of flight that just wasn't there with the rather static cockpit view before. Very nice!

Now, if only the speed of the effects could be linked to the simrate, it would be perfect for videomaking. But it seems the creator is already working on that.

Any chance of someone posting a vid (not one of the promos, I have seen those) just of the inertia effect in the VC view, maybe a landing or some such? Teecee.

I will post a little video tomorrow.

[ojdee]

I was considering getting this, both for the inertial effects and hoping for the ability to more easily manipulate external cameras. If having inertial head-bob rules out TrackIR, I'll have to pass on it, I can't do without the latter.

However, for making movies I am still interested in a product that gives me greater control over the external camera. For example, being able to move the camera much further from the aircraft, or in fact position it exactly where I want, and not always be facing the aircraft.

Are these functions available in EZ-Dock? The mention of untidy uninstalls makes me wary of suck it and see approach.

[Phil Manhart]

Well, I decided to get back in with the "EZ Crowd" after NaveenB helped me come up with a great idea for using TrackIR and EZCamera at the same time, more on that later.

ojdee: Yes you can move the camera far away from the aircraft, and can move it along any axis and turn the view using the mouse (like a POV). You can also place cameras in the "world" and do with them what you will. Say you wanted to place a camera at Runway 10 at 1S2, you can do it. Place a camera on the front porch of Stark's Twin Oaks Ranch House, you can do it. It's just a matter of creating and then editing the cameras (which you can do in real time or paused).

OK, so this is exactly how I have come up with a way to use the TrackIR and EZCamera and have TrackIR functionality with the EZ effects, here goes;

Preliminary Steps:

A) Program a button that is easily reachable on your yoke/joystick to Mouse Button 3 (or Middle Mouse Button depending on what programming software you are using). I used the forefinger button the on the left handle of my CH Eclipse. (In the CH Software choose the button, select DX Mode, in the drop down box select Mouse and then in the second context menu select Button 3 for it's function).

B)Load TrackIR and in the Titles window set Mouse Emulation to the One:One file and increase the Yaw and Pitch axis's by one curve on each (save the One:One profile). This makes it harder for the mouse to go offscreen during use, causing you to have to center the cursor with your actual mouse and then use the center function of TrackIR to reset the view forward.

Now to use it!

1. Load TrackIR (if it isn't already running of course)

2. Enable Mouse Emulation (this will grab TrackIR's focus so FSX will not use it)

3. Load FSX

4. While in the cockpit, or anywhere in EZ mode you have the camera allowed 'POV' movement, you can use the middle mouse button and the mouse to look around, this is where TrackIR's Mouse Emulation comes in.

5. Making sure that you are in EZ mode, hold down the assigned button and move your head for TrackIR movement. To stop, just let go of the button!

6. TA DA!!! You can now use TrackIR and the EZ Camera's effects. The only restriction is that you are limited to Up/Down and Left/Right, so no zooming in on something or moving your head up and down. However I've found that using the EZ Camera's ability to move the camera up, down, forward, left, right, back is very intuitive with a little practice and easier to use than TrackIR. Resetting your view is as easy as pushing the button or key you assigned to that view in the EZ Software.

I'll probably be mapping one of my Hat Switches to change cameras, as reaching down for the keypad on my lap is annoying (especially in the dark).

Good luck and let me know if it didn't work for someone else (if you decide to try it), I may have forgotten a step.

And I can't wait to see that video Patrick.

Phil

[ojdee]

Well that's put the cat amongst the pigeons, maybe I will dive in a get it!

Thanks for the TrackIR tip, will give it a shot later and report back on my experience.

[Nyxx]

Phil

So to be 100% clear you have got it working with IR and the only thing is, its only working like IR 2 did. That i would live with if you get all the take off/land effects.

So you use IR as "normal" and get all the added shake etc even if your looking aound at the same time?

Like others I need IR working, EZ effects are all I am intrested in.

Are you saying you have to hold down a button for IR to work? =fingure not pushed down = no IR.

Last Q does this eat FPS? or hit them in anyway?

[NaveenB]

Can't wait to try this, thanks

Here a question.. in FSX as opposed to FS9, the VC and exterior have different .mdl files, I was flying around VFR London in the default Bell206 last night and I thought I would add a camera to the landing strut, when I got the camera placement tool up and switched to external view, I got an external view of the virtual cockpit model, not the actual helicopter model.

Could this be a glitch?, could it be due to the wierdness that always happens when you fly around a memory-hog scenery like Aerosofts/Horizon VFR London?

[Phil Manhart]

Nyxx-

So to be 100% clear you have got it working with IR and the only thing is, its only working like IR 2 did. That i would live with if you get all the take off/land effects.

Yes, it is working like IR2 did. Just up/down and left/right.

So you use IR as "normal" and get all the added shake etc even if your looking aound at the same time?

Yes, TrackIR utilizes the Mouse Emulation instead of using FSX, so it doesn't even recognize that FSX is running. Therefore, the EZCamera is able to use the camera movement as effects movements.

Like others I need IR working, EZ effects are all I am intrested in.

Me too! The camera controls are neat though too!

Are you saying you have to hold down a button for IR to work? =fingure not pushed down = no IR.

Yes, that is the way I have it set up. If you could find a way to toggle Mouse Button 3 (the middle button), then you wouldn't have to hold down a button.

Last Q does this eat FPS? or hit them in anyway?

For me, no I haven't noticed any hit on FPS. But in my opinion those with less than a quad core or an extremely capable dual core should avoid it.

NaveenB: I have the same problem with any aircraft using the BP=0 tweak. After it seems atleast 2 hours of flying, FSX has run out of video memory to use...and then you get the flying VC...

Phil

[Patrick Scharnowski]

The author of the program said that he would like to cooperate with Natural Point in order to realize full 6DoF TrackIR control while still being able to use the EZCA effects. Let's hope that will work out.

btw: I'm just about to finish up my video. I got carried away, the cockpit only video quickly turned into an over 6 minute long flight video over the Olympic National Park showing off different EZCA cameras. Don't worry, it still has plenty of cockpit shots!

Upload should take about 2-3 hours. I'll let you know when it's done.

[Phil Manhart]

The author of the program said that he would like to cooperate with Natural Point in order to realize full 6DoF TrackIR control while still being able to use the EZCA effects. Let's hope that will work out.

btw: I'm just about to finish up my video. I got carried away, the cockpit only video quickly turned into an over 6 minute long flight video over the Olympic National Park showing off different EZCA cameras. Don't worry, it still has plenty of cockpit shots!

Upload should take about 2-3 hours. I'll let you know when it's done.

I saw that the developers wanted to work full support in as well over at it's official forum. From what I understand it will take some cooperation from Natural Point, so maybe some emails from users like us will help? Here's the link: http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/06-support/contact/

BTW my forum name is Mavrocket over there (don't know where the name came from, but I obviously registered their in 2003 but my post count is 4...  )

Can't wait for the video!

Phil

[Ryan Mason]

Forgive my ignorance fellas, are we talking about EZDok walk and follow?  If so I would really appreciate some pointers as I bought this from Adrian almost 2 years ago and have had nothing but bad luck with it so I dont use it anymore, like someone else said, foreign developers and a hard to understand manual put it in the circular file for me.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

Forgive my ignorance fellas, are we talking about EZDok walk and follow?  If so I would really appreciate some pointers as I bought this from Adrian almost 2 years ago and have had nothing but bad luck with it so I dont use it anymore, like someone else said, foreign developers and a hard to understand manual put it in the circular file for me.

Walk & Follow is not from EZdok Software but from DBS. Completely different developers.

We are talking about EZdok Camera, the payware evolution of the freeware EZdok Walk, in a manner of speaking. EZdok Walk is what I used to create all my videos and EZdok Camera really is a very nice improvement on that. You can very easily add new cameras to the cockpit, to the aircraft or the world. The first two varieties come with a tweakable motion simulation that recreates the buffeting of the aircraft and reactions to different movements that has been missing so far in FSX. You can edit cameras to give you realistic head motion or to simulate a video camera bobbing around, or maybe mounted cameras on the hull that vibrate realistically. It's very powerful and just as useful during normal flight as it is for creating videos. Damn... do I sound like EZdok Software's PR guy, or what? lol

p.s.: Youtube is very slow today. Remaining upload time at this moment: 3 hours, 45 minutes. 

[Ryan Mason]

Ok cool, yeah I had a nightmare experience with the freeware version, I dont think its for me, and its not just you mate, I have been having slow downs across the board today, I am wondering if it is slow internet day.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

Ok cool, yeah I had a nightmare experience with the freeware version

Strange. It's very easy to use.

[Blitzer]

Ok cool, yeah I had a nightmare experience with the freeware version

Strange. It's very easy to use.

Carefully what you imply mate - don't forget Ryan does have a collection of guns and "toys" to bring you a whole world of hurt! 

[NaveenB]

@ Aussie Cop

When I used it with a helicopter I was not that impressed, the head motion is kind of repetative, although this may be how head-bobbing in a heli really is, but maybe with some tweaking...

[ojdee]

OK I got this today and I'm pretty pleased with it.

From the standpoint of allowing fantastically dramatic camera angles, both for movies and just for more effective sightseeing, it has turned out to be great. I run in fullscreen mode, so for the purposes of setting up the various angles I had to alt-enter to access the control panel, but once they're set the switching between cameras works fine in fullscreen.

There's some funkiness going on when you jump from EZD camera to the default ones, at least on my machine. There is mention on the forum of needing to toggle EZD off to get default cameras working again, but this didn't work for me. The solution was to just recreate the vc and your other views in EZD and just stay in the EZD camera all the time, switching via the shortcuts you set in the control panel.

As for TrackIR, I too thought I wouldn't be able to live without it, and I kind of don't have to. It's set up as normal, and overrides EZD in the EZD VC. When I want the inertial effect, I just hit the default TrackIR toggle button (F9), and EZD takes over, snapping back to forward looking VC. I don't really see any problem losing the inertial effects when scanning around in TrackIR, but of course if they can integrate with Naturalpoint and maintain both that would be great.

So overall pretty happy, it doesn't mess up TrackIR when I want that functionality as normal, and when I want the very effective inertial effects at takeoff and landing, (not really using TrackIR much at these moments anyway), it's just one F9 press away. The huge flexibility of all the camera angles is the icing on cake really.

Of course F9 is now mapped to a very convenient HOTAS button

[Ryan Mason]

@naveen, There is very little flight vibration in a helicopter due to having your prop (rotor) above your head, there is some on startup and rotor engagement so yeah it might be a little pointless for the vibration part for me, but like I said, I had a nightmare with the freeware version so I will just watch your experiences in this thread

[Patrick Scharnowski]

The video is finally up and running. So much for the 2-3 hours! 

http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=19936.0

[Tim Harris]

Reckon I'd be interested in a 'lite' version that gives the shaking effects only

Me too, would love that, not a video maker so don't need the other functions

[Phil Manhart]

The video is finally up and running. So much for the 2-3 hours! 

http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=19936.0

Great video Patrick! The EZCA easily adds that extra dimension of reality. My wife walked in and asked where the pilot was flying (she didn't know it was FSX!!!).

Keep up the good work brother!

Phil

BTW, are those custom effects configs or were you lazy like me and copied over the Maule's or 172's...? 

[ojdee]

Great video Patrick, I like the final shot as it pans up to the horizon - was this a new camera with slow PTP value?

[Guest J van E]

Pity it doesn't work with TrackIR... Otherwise I would get it.

EDIT:

I should have read the entire topic before I posted this... What ojdee says is interesting (that EZD takes over when you pause TrackIR?). And if the dev of EZD can get in contact with Natural Point... I would also like a simple version that just makes everything 'move': don't need the camera's and so on.

[Nyxx]

Its very interesting what Oli says because it saves all the set up etc what Phil has posted.

I got my IR working in mouse emulation last night but just pressing F9 to turn of IR for landings and take of is the only time i want EZ-Dock.

But is that worth the money=hhmm also that's IR and EZ working in the back ground hhhmmm.

In the videos ive seen does EZ-Dock raze your POV for landing or is that just people useing SHIFT-ENTER?

[Guest J van E]

I got my IR working in mouse emulation last night but just pressing F9 to turn of IR for landings and take of is the only time i want EZ-Dock.

But is that worth the money=hhmm also that's IR and EZ working in the back ground hhhmmm.

In the videos ive seen does EZ-Dock raze your POV for landing or is that just people useing SHIFT-ENTER?

Yes, I like the effect, but to pay so much money for a few seconds of shaking... I don't care for the movie making options...

@Jigsaw: When you look around in the video, did you use the mouse for that? It almost looked as if TIR was used. I suppose EZDOK Camera smoothens the mouse movements so it's not as jerky and immediate as the default mouse look?

[ojdee]

Without wanting to speak for Jigsaw, the movement when using EZD and the hat switch is smoothed to the point that it looks completely natural. I wouldn't be surprised if the smooth panning in the video is just hat panning.

That's another reason why I don't feel the loss of TrackIR when I am enjoying the bumpiness applied by turbulence or just glancing left/right while trundling down a bumpy strip.

I do agree on price though, if you don't care about all the extra angles it is a bit steep. I think it would be better to offer some stock bumpy behaviour that can be applied to vc only for half the price and offer a deluxe version with all the bells and whistles.

Guess that opens a whole can of worms for upgrading, developing two codebases. It appears that this is one person's project so maybe he doesn't want that additional management.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

BTW, are those custom effects configs or were you lazy like me and copied over the Maule's or 172's...? 

Like I said in the video thread: I was was lazy. 

I like the final shot as it pans up to the horizon - was this a new camera with slow PTP value?

For that shot I moved an external camera manually in Float mode.

[Patrick Scharnowski]

BTW, are those custom effects configs or were you lazy like me and copied over the Maule's or 172's...? 

Like I said in the video thread: I was was lazy. 

I like the final shot as it pans up to the horizon - was this a new camera with slow PTP value?

For that shot I moved an external camera manually in Float mode.

In the videos ive seen does EZ-Dock raze your POV for landing or is that just people useing SHIFT-ENTER?

You can move around in the cockpit with the Page Up, Page Down and Arrow keys. No need for awkward key combinations.

@Jigsaw: When you look around in the video, did you use the mouse for that? It almost looked as if TIR was used. I suppose EZDOK Camera smoothens the mouse movements so it's not as jerky and immediate as the default mouse look?

In the video I used the mouse for that, but you can customize the movements of the POV hat (speed, smoothness) to you liking as well, so that using that ministick on you Joystick can look just like that.

[Nyxx]

Q

If you are in the pilot view(normal view) and have made a camera for e.g. to look out and down to the ground out of the left window. When you press the key for the  left window view does it snap to that view or glide seamlessly to that view from the "normal" view?

[ojdee]

Q

If you are in the pilot view(normal view) and have made a camera for e.g. to look out and down to the ground out of the left window. When you press the key for the  left window view does it snap to that view or glide seamlessly to that view from the "normal" view?

You can only transition between any views within the same category. The categories are Cockpit, Aircraft and World (Fixed)

No matter how dramatic the change in position/orientation, this works well, with adjustable rates of transition for each camera.

I think the only difference between aircraft and cockpit categories is the vibration modes on offer in each. If I remember correctly in cockpit mode you get slightly difference head motion effects to those in aircraft.

So while you can't smoothly transition from your cockpit seat down to the ground or from your external wing view into the cockpit, I think you'll find there's enough flexibility to slide around all over the place!

[Nyxx]

I think you miss understood Oli, i meant looking down at the ground from within the VC

[Phil Manhart]

I think you miss understood Oli, i meant looking down at the grown from within the VC

Yes, it's a smooth transition. There is an option with every camera called PTP (Point-to-Point) that makes the camera view "glide" or "float" whatever you want to call it from camera view to camera view in the same area (VC view to VC view glides, but VC to external does not because the plane is rendered differently from VC to External).

Here's a link to a video showing it in effect from the makers:

All in all, it's great. If I could figure out how to take video I'd show you. Maybe if I get a chance I will do it and post the link up here.

[ojdee]

I think you miss understood Oli, i meant looking down at the ground from within the VC

I probably did

If you mean moving from vc looking straight ahead to looking to left and tilted down as if looking down out of window, with smooth transition, yes you can.

If you mean moving from vc looking straight ahead to a camera outside to left window looking straight down using an aircraft camera , no you can't, at least not with a smooth transition.