active P3D V4.2 CTD during approach to KSAN

[kimizonghong]

Hello captains:

Is there anybody have the problem with ORBX KSAN when approaching to the airport?

Every time when I descent to the airport, when the P3D load the airport, it always comes with a CTD. But if I load the airport directly from P3D, it doesn't crash. I have openLC NA and south CA installed.

 

[John Dow]

CTDs as you've mentioned have been shown to be the result of FS9 models in traffic programs, and some ship and ferry add-ons.

 

If you have any other scenery or traffic programs operating they might be the best place to look for a solution.  Initially try turning all traffic sliders to nil.

[cwilson241]

I am also having CTD when approaching KSAN.  Happened twice so far--once yesterday and once just now.  Same flight in the PMDG 737-800 from KPHX.  Yesterday, the sim froze for about 15 seconds and then CTD--I was 30 miles from the airport.  Today, same exact thing, but I was 23 miles from the airport.  I don't have SOCAL installed, just KSAN and NA FTX.  I am also using UTL.

[MikeCorder]

I just updated KSAN to v 1.1 whatever and now I cannot load and start up at KSAN - CTD during graphics initialization

[AbqVlieger]

I just posted this in another forum, but I am also still unable to make a flight into San Diego.  Crash to Desktop.  I have installed the update via the FTX central.  I have 16 gigs or RAM and my video card is a Radeon RX 580 with 8 gigs.  My P3D v4.2 has very few addons, mostly Orbx, Fly Tampa, FSDT and Taxi to Gate.  I am running Ultimate Traffic Live, Active Sky and Rex SkyForce 3D.

 

Mr. Dow states that have been shown to be caused by FS9 models in traffic programs:  how would I go about identifying these FS9 models.  If this were so, everyone who is using UT live should be having the same problems at KSAN.

 

The only other scenery that I have installed is, Orbx FTX Global,  open LC North America, FTX global HD Trees.

 

 

[kimizonghong]

6 hours ago, cwilson241 said:

I am also having CTD when approaching KSAN.  Happened twice so far--once yesterday and once just now.  Same flight in the PMDG 737-800 from KPHX.  Yesterday, the sim froze for about 15 seconds and then CTD--I was 30 miles from the airport.  Today, same exact thing, but I was 23 miles from the airport.  I don't have SOCAL installed, just KSAN and NA FTX.  I am also using UTL.

I have the same flight and same aircraft, PHX-SAN with PMDG 737-800. What I have is when I descent to about 5000ft AGL, almost 10nm from airport, the P3D started to load details of airport, froze and crash.....

[kimizonghong]

5 hours ago, MikeCorder said:

I just updated KSAN to v 1.1 whatever and now I cannot load and start up at KSAN - CTD during graphics initialization

I also made the update, but it doesn't work. I also tried to start the flight from KSAN, during loading the airport at very beginning, p3d still crash...

[kimizonghong]

1 hour ago, AbqVlieger said:

I just posted this in another forum, but I am also still unable to make a flight into San Diego.  Crash to Desktop.  I have installed the update via the FTX central.  I have 16 gigs or RAM and my video card is a Radeon RX 580 with 8 gigs.  My P3D v4.2 has very few addons, mostly Orbx, Fly Tampa, FSDT and Taxi to Gate.  I am running Ultimate Traffic Live, Active Sky and Rex SkyForce 3D.

 

Mr. Dow states that have been shown to be caused by FS9 models in traffic programs:  how would I go about identifying these FS9 models.  If this were so, everyone who is using UT live should be having the same problems at KSAN.

 

The only other scenery that I have installed is, Orbx FTX Global,  open LC North America, FTX global HD Trees.

 

 

I installed a lot airports. All flightbeams and FSDTs, and taxi2gates, and some ORBX airports. All other airports are running without problem, only KSAN looks like never be able to make a flight.

[John Dow]

Have you tried approaching in a daefault aircraft such as the C172 or similar.

 

In the past some GPS FMC units have been proven to be incompatible with some databases, that's another possibility.

 

[AbqVlieger]

Good morning,

 

I use the iFly 737-800 and I have just updated the Navigraph FMS data to 1803.

[MikeCorder]

8 hours ago, John Dow said:

Have you tried approaching in a daefault aircraft such as the C172 or similar.

 

In the past some GPS FMC units have been proven to be incompatible with some databases, that's another possibility.

 

Yes, I always load up with the default Piper Cub then switch to the desired aircraft. Loading seems to complete and the crash happens a few seconds later while the "waiting for graphics to initialize" warning is on the screen

[John Dow]

So you're saying there are no problems with the default aircraft?

 

[Nick Cooper]

Hello Mike,

what is generating the "waiting for graphics to initialize" warning that you mention?

I see no such thing. 

[Lawrence Hickerson]

Mike,  I am also wondering if you have Orbx SC scenery?  If you do, have you checked the block in the KSAN config?  I use both and have no issues.  I have traffic at 20% to include active jetways.

[Starseed]

I am having the same issue just purchased KSAN and LOWI can not complete a fight in PMDG to either airport CTD . I found  other people having the same problem. only San Diego and Inn's Bruck only PMDG  WHY? .I have not seen any solution mentioned. Not using Global or Vector just want to fly with out issues. I just did a clean install of P3Dv4.2 not having any problems with anything but ORBX. 

[Starseed]

I want to report the same issue others are having as KSAN CTD. tried other aircraft seems to be happening  as wells. Just did a clean install of P3Dv4.2  have no issues with any other scenery except KSAN and LOWI both by ORBX newer both CTD when loading or on Approach. One thing I find interesting is I can load into  KJAC, KMRY, KSTS, KRDD ect. with no issue. I have been able to load into KSAN only if I load into KJAC or another ORBX scenery that works. Then I have a successful load in ,not always. And with all aircraft CTD direct load in even default planes. It does not fix the fact that I can not fly into these airports as it will CTD on approach. This tells me it is specific to the newer scenery released as the others do not have a problem. I have yet to see this resolved or a solution mentioned  in all the posts. Does ORBX have a FIX?

[Almac1234]

Hi

 

I am also experiencing CTD problems when using KSAN both before and after updating to the latest version.  What I have now noticed is I can use Aerosoft's CRJ 700/900, FSLabs A320 without any CTD occurring.  If I use PMDG's 777 and 737NGX I get halfway down runway 27 and CTD occurs.  Prior to applying the KSAN update I struggled to even load a flight scenario from KSAN.  FSlabs A320 would load but CTD about 10 mins after takeoff.  I use Activesky, UTLive, FTX Global and many airport addons that have no problems with CTD.

[paulmidd]

I had a CTD on approach today. Then went to FTX Central and clicked the button to say that I had Orbx SC. Repeated the flight from a saved checkpoint and landed without problems.

[Starseed]

39 minutes ago, paulmidd said:

I had a CTD on approach today. Then went to FTX Central and clicked the button to say that I had Orbx SC. Repeated the flight from a saved checkpoint and landed without problems.

 Do you actually have  ORBX Southern California loaded or just selected it on the control panel ?

I cant even get the AS -CRJ700-900 to load it still CTD. It seem the developers are not talking to each other and there are coding conflicts.  .Why is this ?? It is only on the latest releases. The older scenery works fine.

[paulmidd]

Yes, I do have SCA loaded.

[AbqVlieger]

I only have FTX global base and open LC North America.

[Аверо Офф.]

I confirm the above, I too have CTD(P3D v4.2), but only when I loading in KSAN at night. At the day I can load KSAN, but simulator still crashes after 5 minutes of working... Only in KSAN, in other airports I haven't anything similar.

Also, I have both SC and NC installed and SC blend checked in KSAN control panel.

[Starseed]

Is there no help here at ORBX ??

[AbqVlieger]

Good evening,

 

I just tried a flight using the default F-22, headed straight east out of KSAN and another CTD.

[MikeCorder]

On 3/6/2018 at 6:39 AM, Lawrence Hickerson said:

Mike,  I am also wondering if you have Orbx SC scenery?  If you do, have you checked the block in the KSAN config?  I use both and have no issues.  I have traffic at 20% to include active jetways.

Yes I have SC, as well as Open LC NA  and Vector

I DO have the tick box set to Sothern California mode. (The tick is an either/or and makes no allowance for the fact that both are installed)

 

I just checked it again and it crashes about 30 secs after I first see the airport.  )The "Graphics Initializing" message I referred to in an earlier post is actually from Active Sky Cloud Art ASCA)

[MikeCorder]

On 3/6/2018 at 3:15 AM, Nick Cooper said:

Hello Mike,

what is generating the "waiting for graphics to initialize" warning that you mention?

I see no such thing. 

  Sorry, The "Graphics Initializing" message I referred to in an earlier post is actually from Active Sky Cloud Art ASCA and is not related to this error.

The crash happens about 20-30 secs after I first see the airport.

I just checked again tonight and the CTD is still happening.  I loading up to the default Piper Cub.

And yes, I have selected the tick option that I do have Orbx Southern California installed.

 

Thanks

Mke

[Nick Cooper]

Hello,

there is already a long topic on this subject.

 

and some advice from the developer

 

The San Diego area in the simulator is very hard work even with no scenery add ons.

It seems to me that the "CTD" is the P3D v4 equivalent of the 32 bit OOM error and is

possibly caused when the software is no longer capable of handling what it is being

asked to do.

 

In my experience, P3D v4 has stopped in three ways:

 

1. a crash to desktop leaving an error message in the Windows Event Viewer.

(In that case, posting what it is would be useful.)

2. a sudden and complete disappearance  of P3D without any warning and without an error message.

3. a sudden restart of the whole PC, without warning.

 

If your "CTD" fits into one of these categories, it may be that the only way forward is to reduce the P3D

settings to a point where the PC and P3D can once again handle the workload.

 

Most of you are also flying complex aircraft and possibly using external

weather software, replacement textures and so on which also add to the load.

Also, as has been mentioned, P3D v4 is completely intolerant of FS9 models and will often instantly

disappear if there is one within display range.

 

While frustration with not being able to successfully fly in this area is entirely understandable and justified,

repetitions of "me too" posts without any resulting error messages and/or "using XXXX addon airliner" will

not help in finding a compromise solution to this problem.

 

If you do have a Windows Event Viewer error log, please add it to your post.

 

[paulmidd]

For me, it's an ntdll.dll error every time.

 

And surely, the area can't be more demanding than New York City or London?

[alex6463]

Its also with ORBX KPSP. Looks like its the entire area.

[FalconAF]

1 hour ago, paulmidd said:

For me, it's an ntdll.dll error every time.

 

And surely, the area can't be more demanding than New York City or London?

 

Sure it can.  Have you tracked your memory usage when all of these things are happening?

 

I don't experience any of the problems with the ORBX KSAN reported here.  I USED to...and solved it long before any upgrade to KSAN was made.  I was using MyTraffic6 and it would generate FS9 military AI models for the North Island Naval Air Station right across the bay from KSAN as soon as I got close enough for KSAN to start loading KSAN's scenery.  It wasn't KSAN causing the problem, but a different addon combination.

 

In any case, try tracking your memory usage while flying towards KSAN.  What you might see is an approximately ONE GIGABYTE increase in memory allocation usage when the KSAN airport starts to load (the exact figure can depend on your settings in P3D also, but I will see a full one gigabyte increase in memory usage with the slider settings in my P3Dv4.2).  If you are using a 32-bit flight sim yet with just about any other "demanding" addon like a PMDG, that is going to kill your session.  Even with a 64-bit P3Dv4.2 it may cause an issue depending on how well the rest of your computer handles all the things you are throwing at it, including the default aircraft in P3D.  

 

The only ORBX product in the KSAN area I don't have installed or use is Vector.  I can't say if that is a factor or not.  But the reality of all of this is that not ALL people are experiencing the problems reported here by SOME people.  So it more than likely is NOT an issue with the KSAN product, but individual issues with the end-users computers and flight sim software combinations.  If it was "all KSAN's fault", everybody would be crashing around KSAN.

 

The first things I would do to "troubleshoot" your problems are:

 

1.  Turn off ALL aircraft AI addons  you are using.  Kill ALL AI in your sim, and see if that fixes it.  If yes, you have FS9-era AI models trying to load (most likely military aircraft for North Island).

 

2.  Do a search for "duplicate AFCAD" files for KSAN in your flight sim AND addons.  This is also one of the most common airport problems in our flight sims that will cause stutters, crashes of the sim, etc.  AI addon packages containing their own "airport BGL files" are the usual culprit.  If it has one for KSAN, it is conflicting with the ORBX KSAN airport BGL file.

 

If the above two things don't fix your problem, then any person trying to troubleshoot it for you WILL need a log from your computer that shows what is happening during the "crash".  Nick rightfully already said that, but I'm gonna reiterate it.  Complaining alone will NOT help you solve your problem.  As an IT professional, I would need to see a "report" created by your computer to identify and fix the problem for you.

 

EDIT:  BTW, here is an explanation of what can possibly cause an ntdll.dll error...

 

"The causes of ntdll.dll error messages can vary greatly. However, most ntdll.dll errors result from a corrupt or damaged version of the ntdll DLL file itself, corrupt hardware drivers, or issues between Windows and other programs. ... There are many different ways that ntdll.dll errors may be displayed on your computer."

 

So even if you are getting an ntdll.dll error when KSAN and your flight sim are crashing, it is meaningless as troubleshooting information without having a "dump log" from the computer showing what is REALLY happening at the time of the crash.

 

[Matteo Veneziani]

26 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

 

Sure it can.  Have you tracked your memory usage when all of these things are happening?

 

I don't experience any of the problems with the ORBX KSAN reported here.  I USED to...and solved it long before any upgrade to KSAN was made.  I was using MyTraffic6 and it would generate FS9 military AI models for the North Island Naval Air Station right across the bay from KSAN as soon as I got close enough for KSAN to start loading KSAN's scenery.  It wasn't KSAN causing the problem, but a different addon combination.

 

In any case, try tracking your memory usage while flying towards KSAN.  What you might see is an approximately ONE GIGABYTE increase in memory allocation usage when the KSAN airport starts to load (the exact figure can depend on your settings in P3D also, but I will see a full one gigabyte increase in memory usage with the slider settings in my P3Dv4.2).  If you are using a 32-bit flight sim yet with just about any other "demanding" addon like a PMDG, that is going to kill your session.  Even with a 64-bit P3Dv4.2 it may cause an issue depending on how well the rest of your computer handles all the things you are throwing at it, including the default aircraft in P3D.  

 

The only ORBX product in the KSAN area I don't have installed or use is Vector.  I can't say if that is a factor or not.  But the reality of all of this is that not ALL people are experiencing the problems reported here by SOME people.  So it more than likely is NOT an issue with the KSAN product, but individual issues with the end-users computers and flight sim software combinations.  If it was "all KSAN's fault", everybody would be crashing around KSAN.

 

The first things I would do to "troubleshoot" your problems are:

 

1.  Turn of ALL aircraft AI addons  you are using.  Kill ALL AI in your sim, and see if that fixes it.  If yes, you have FS9-era AI models trying to load (most likely military aircraft for North Island).

 

2.  Do a search for "duplicate AFCAD" files for KSAN in your flight sim AND addons.  This is also one of the most common airport problems in our flight sims that will cause stutters, crashes of the sim, etc.  AI addon packages containing their own "airport BGL files" are the usual culprit.  If it has one for KSAN, it is conflicting with the ORBX KSAN airport BGL file.

 

If the above two things don't fix your problem, then any person trying to troubleshoot it for you WILL need a log from your computer that shows what is happening during the "crash".  Nick rightfully already said that, but I'm gonna reiterate it.  Complaining alone will NOT help you solve your problem.  As an IT professional, I would need to see a "report" created by your computer to identify and fix the problem for you.

 

Thanks for this detailed explanation. One of the best explanation I have ever seen about KSAN.

 

Anyway guys, I will do another update ( I hope it's the last one ) where i will try to improve performance again and some improvement suggest by the users.

spread the word of this with those who have problems.
As you can see I'm trying to do everything possible to make you enjoy this scenario.

 

I will let you know in the next weeks. 

 

Regards,

 

 

[FalconAF]

For Matteo,

 

I just want to clarify something.  I'm not saying any "one gigabyte memory usage increase" is SOLELY caused by the KSAN scenery.  On the contrary, it is going to be a combination of OTHER things in the area starting to load also...like lots of other ORBX SCA stuff if you have P3D sliders pushed far to the right.  Or possibly Vector stuff if you have that installed (I don't).  So please don't take anything I said about "one gigabyte memory increase" as a criticism of the KSAN product.  It is usually (in fact...almost ALWAYS) a combination of things that end up causing the "problem".  

[Matteo Veneziani]

27 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

For Matteo,

 

I just want to clarify something.  I'm not saying any "one gigabyte memory usage increase" is SOLELY caused by the KSAN scenery.  On the contrary, it is going to be a combination of OTHER things in the area starting to load also...like lots of other ORBX SCA stuff if you have P3D sliders pushed far to the right.  Or possibly Vector stuff if you have that installed (I don't).  So please don't take anything I said about "one gigabyte memory increase" as a criticism of the KSAN product.  It is usually (in fact...almost ALWAYS) a combination of things that end up causing the "problem".  

Yes, is all true. Is a combination of many addon/ settings that could cause CTD or not. 

 

Regards,

[paulmidd]

I'm just wondering whether the problem is something related to the compatibility setting in the Control Panel. When I set it to SC mode (in my case, the correct one) I can then start up at KSAN without a problem. However, I have noticed that this setting does not 'persist'; in other words, when I go back one or two days later, neither SC nor Global mode is set. So I can reset it, yet the next time I log on, the setting is once more unset. I don't know of any other ORBX scenery (of which I have many) where the full range of settings does not persist. This may possibly be related to the problem.

 

I have to say that I an sceptical about a performance related cause. Being on P3DV4 I can no longer measure virtual storage, but KSAN does not trouble my main or graphic card physical storage, nor my FPS. Contrast that with an approach to EGLL over central London, where the FPS certainly does struggle (half that of KSAN), yet I do not get a CTD, ntdll.dll or otherwise.

[Starseed]

 

I'm not sure why developers are always  on the defense.If several people are stating the same issue it could just be the scenery., as it does not seem to happen anywhere else. Over doing it on the the detail and not coding properly is usually the reason for updates and fixes. Things they forgot or didn't think to add. I believe it has to do with the UV mapping and if ORBX doesn't take the time to utilize a 2 channel disbursement than it will most certainly cause a crash. Most develop teams have found this to be the case.And they some times are aware of an issue but do not report as such until it becomes an overwhelming problem.hence letting the public find work arounds ect. It is as simple as reworking scenery allocation in most cases. Which mean instead of using layer upon layer of scenery. Using a 2 channel UV mapping process is better and more efficient, and PeDv4 does support it. Maybe ORBX can put out a fix, that would be the right thing to do instead of putting it on the consumer every time.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote from Nick Cooper; ORBX Team

The San Diego area in the simulator is very hard work even with no scenery add ons.

It seems to me that the "CTD" is the P3D v4 equivalent of the 32 bit OOM error and is

possibly caused when the software is no longer capable of handling what it is being

asked to do.

 

 

 

 

[FalconAF]

1 hour ago, paulmidd said:

I'm just wondering whether the problem is something related to the compatibility setting in the Control Panel. When I set it to SC mode (in my case, the correct one) I can then start up at KSAN without a problem. However, I have noticed that this setting does not 'persist'; in other words, when I go back one or two days later, neither SC nor Global mode is set.

 

Well, the first thing I would say is that unless a whole bunch of other users are experiencing the same thing with their Control Panel doing the same thing (I'm not), then it is again most likely an issue related specifically to your own computer and installation.  Therefore, without a system log dump report, we would all STILL be guessing at what is happening.

 

In your case right now, you may want to consider uninstalling then reinstalling KSAN or even FTX Central, as so far you seem to be an isolated instance of the KSAN setting not being maintained (unless I missed posts by other people saying they are having the same issue in the Control Panel).   But I would WAIT for an "approved ORBX person" (like Nick or someone else at ORBX) to agree with that recommendation.  Don't blame me if you try it and it doesn't work.  

[FalconAF]

30 minutes ago, Starseed said:

If several people are stating the same issue it could just be the scenery., as it does not seem to happen anywhere else. Over doing it on the the detail and not coding properly is usually the reason for updates and fixes. 

 

Sorry, but I'm going to totally disagree with your opinion.  I've done IT professionally for over 40 years, and MOST problems are NOT the result of the software application IF it is ONLY affecting SOME users.  In those cases it is almost always the users causing the problems themselves.

 

That has always been the cause of most "problems" in over 3 decades of flight simulation.  It is NOT a problem if a developer writes software that WILL take advantage of state-of-the-art hardware that is maintained properly so the software CAN run correctly on it.  But when the end user tries to run that same software on a 3rd generation (or older) hardware platform that was never designed to be able to handle the capabilities of the software, and also isn't maintained properly either, and sets the software options to levels that also exceed their hardware's capability (slider settings in our flight sims), historically THAT is the reason flight sim users experience "problems".  Yes, there is the occasional "bad coding" piece of software that gets released, but when that happens it becomes obvious because EVERYBODY using the software is screaming bloody murder.  That is NOT what is happening in this case.

 

Don't take this wrong.  It's not a condemnation of anybody.  But look at the number of posts each of the users posting about their problems have.  Most of them have under 30 - 40 total posts, and many have single digit post numbers.  These are either newer, less experienced flight sim users (not those who have been doing it for a few decades), OR they are relatively new to ORBX itself (even if they have several years "simming" experience with other products). In either case the odds are they are inexperienced computer users as a whole (when it comes to maintaining their computers) or just inexperienced with ORBX.  They may not even know about such things a "duplicate AFCADs" or "FS9 AI will crash FSX and P3D" issues.  Heck, I'd bet a month's paycheck many don't even know how to find the system logs that get created when their computer does crash.  And that's OK.  Everybody starts somewhere. But it's not justification to call out a software developer carte blanche. 

 

Again, not a condemnation of anybody.  But it's the reality of our flight simming community ever since the Commodore 64 days of flight simming.

 

There's a very valid saying about human nature.  "If enough people are complaining, there is probably a problem.  But the REAL problem probably isn't what the complainers THINK it is."    

 

[John Dow]

I just flew the ORBX Lancair HD from KCRQ down to KSAN (24.1 NM) in both FS9 and FSX with all traffic and scenery sliders at maximum.

 

Had a few pauses at around 20 and 15nm out as the scenery loaded in the distance.

 

But no CTDs.  Performance was adequate in both sims, fps dropped to 10-15 close to KSAN but not unmanageable.  I would estimate performance is actuually up to 20% better than New York and parts of Seatlle area.

 

FSX was a lot more blurry in ground textures and autogen draw distance was nowhere near as far.

 

My system is mid range nowadays (see my sig) so if the scenery was to cause problems it would show up at maximum settings.

 

As a beta tester I always install ORBX products exactly as per the installers and I run a default config file with a couple of proven exceptions (cpu allocation, LOD radius etc)

 

The scenery works as intended.  If a user finds it doesn't work for them, the onus is on them to find what causes their issues.   Orbx team and forum members will help where possible but cannot do the impossible.

 

 

[Starseed]

My only point is if I pay for  a product it should work. And this is the only airport out of all the OBRX that has an issue for me and I own 15 airports . People that use an entire page of words and have no solution should save their words for help not criticism . If there is a complaint it just mean there is something is not working, and all the forums are full of them. What we need is a solution.

[John Dow]

2 hours ago, Starseed said:

What we need is a solution.

 

Yes and obviously there is a solution.  I have the solution on my computer.  My KSAN and surrounding areas works fine.

 

Something in your computer is causing the problem.  Find that and you will have your solution.