VH-KDK Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Now this would make an interesting addition to those who like to fly airliners. We have ground service programmes, co pilots and passenger audio. So developers here is an idea for someone to produce an add on to make our flying experience even more realistic. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-11/united-airlines-passenger-dragged-off-overbooked-flight/8433104 This of course could lead on to a law suit simulator and how about a court room simulator! The possibilities are endless. I should not make light of this but what an dreadful way to treat a customer. I hope that the Gentleman here is going to make the airline pay big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda425 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Thanks for sharing Martyn. Terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradB Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I am glad I live on a civilized island in the South Pacific too far away from all that rubbish. It is amazing how little can set off the goon squad these days while our cops in New Zealand still don't even carry a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilaureano Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 The world is going crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 11 hours ago, Matthew Kane said: I am glad I live on a civilized island in the South Pacific too far away from all that rubbish. It is amazing how little can set off the goon squad these days while our cops in New Zealand still don't even carry a gun. I would leave and renounce this dump in a minute if I could live in NZ. I will never, ever, fly again because of these goons. I have not flown commercially since 9/11 and will never fly again with the security hassles. How to boil a frog.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillwater Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Onboard entertainment gets better and better. For free (at least for the United crew that needed the seats from the paying customers). Even better the ironic statements of Uniteds future Ex-CEO afterwards. 15 hours ago, VH-KDK said: I hope that the Gentleman here is going to make the airline pay big time. Plus one. One million, I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave302 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 14 hours ago, Matthew Kane said: I am glad I live on a civilized island in the South Pacific too far away from all that rubbish. It is amazing how little can set off the goon squad these days while our cops in New Zealand still don't even carry a gun. Even though our police carry guns, as can our citizens by the way, most places in the U.S. are actually very safe and, believe it or not, quite civilized. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I don't suppose the airline has a policy of dragging its paying customers back out down the aisle after allowing them to board. Overbooking does seem to be a situation that is all too common, even here in Great Britain and presumably they would rather leave passengers behind than run the risk of empty seats. The mistake seems to have been not to bribe four passengers to take a later flight before they boarded. Then it was massively compounded by the total mishandling of the situation of the airlines own making. Then it was massively compounded again by the man in charge saying it was the passenger's fault. I see he has now changed his mind. Perhaps there is also room for an airline manager and airline security staff simulator where these mistakes can be made without the unfortunate consequences. It could be called AMASS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, dave302 said: Even though our police carry guns, as can our citizens by the way, most places in the U.S. are actually very safe and, believe it or not, quite civilized. Dave Yes I know, I have lived in Rhododendron, Oregon for two summers in my past, I can't tell much difference between that place and New Zealand, absolutely amazing place But their is the old saying.....your only as good as your worst player Just because they have some great places to live you have to be aware of all your fellow country men and women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Hamilton Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Believe it or not, airlines are within their rights to tell you to leave, and once you refuse, you're trespassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alank Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Here is how the Aussies do it .... http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-11/flight-overbooked-what-rights-australia-united-airlines/8433170 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 No, they are not. They are required to compensate you for up to four times the one way fare up to a maximum of $1350 if your delay is over two hours of the original flight. As a passenger you have a bill of rights. This is if you are being bumped. It might be a different story if a passenger exhibits disturbing behavior but the incident being discussed here is a passenger being bumped because of overbooking issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Overbooking is common in many countries, it comes down to how it is managed. This is an example of Policy coming before Customer Service and people using a Zero Tolerance approach before using Discretion. It takes intelligence to use Discretion, Zero Tolerance Policies take that away and is the belittlement of a Just Society. This is why this United Airlines incident will likely be studied for a very long time. Also you need to recognize that offering $800 then forcibly removing a person because patience was lost rather then upping the offer to $1000 or $1350 cost the Airline $800 Million off their stock and they closed the day with a $250 Million Dollar Loss. Significant when you compare to upping the value by another $500 bucks or so. A little patience could have saved all that, this is extremely unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chumley Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 If you have a seat at the back of the aircraft and get forcibly removed it brings new meaning to the term 'Long Haul'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chumley Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 8 hours ago, ALF said: No, they are not. They are required to compensate you for up to four times the one way fare up to a maximum of $1350 if your delay is over two hours of the original flight. As a passenger you have a bill of rights. This is if you are being bumped. It might be a different story if a passenger exhibits disturbing behavior but the incident being discussed here is a passenger being bumped because of overbooking issues. Why did they not stop 4 people from boarding rather than 'evicting' four. They must have known before boarding they had four employees to get on the flight. Much easier proposition before passengers have sat down I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Amengol Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 4 hours ago, chumley said: Why did they not stop 4 people from boarding rather than 'evicting' four. They must have known before boarding they had four employees to get on the flight. Much easier proposition before passengers have sat down I would think. Good point. Here in Brazil this is exactly the way things are handled. If the passenger is already boarded, he cannot be forced to leave (due to overbooking). All the negotiation is made BEFORE boarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I am sure that the airline does not have policy of doing this and that due to someone near to the event, it was not done as it should have been. Allegedly, the four to be taken off were randomly selected once it was too late to stop the boarding when there were four places left. The real problem is what happened next and then what the airline CEO had to say about it. I understand that people are invited off overbooked aircraft every day but rarely in such a spectacularly wrong way. Add to that, the CEO's attempt to defend the indefensible and you have this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Hi Nick, for a full year I was on the other side of the maintenance fence. I used to work this, operations. Our procedure was like all airlines to overbook knowing there would be a lot of no-shows. Now, on the off chance something like this happened here's what we would do. First, NO employee (except pilots who would fly dead-head in the cockpit) would be allowed to board. Second, especially during Christmas, MAIL would bump paying passenger's the airlines have a contract with the government to haul X amount of mail per flight, you would not believe how much mail gets hauled every flight. Third, we ALWAYS knew ahead of time how many people were in the terminal and had assigned seats, if they missed boarding call we'd pull an employee or a buddy pass rider off for the passenger, happened to me many times. Fourth, they would NEVER, EVER ask someone to leave while they were seated (only buddy pass riders and employees), they'd ALWAYS ask in the terminal area for volunteers and they would put them up in a nice hotel or get them on the next flight or even a competitor's airline! I know there's some crazy reports as to this guy's history but that's no excuse, they should not have done what they did. To me this is why I do NOT fly and will NEVER ever fly again, those TSA people here are WAY too heavy handed and in my opinion it's just to make people submit to authority. This is what it all comes down to, submit to authority like a good little sheep or be beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc_Z Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 While not defending United's policies, it was airport police who dragged the man off the plane, not United employees. One of the cops has been suspended for being overly zealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillwater Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Doc_Z said: One of the cops has been suspended for being overly zealous. ... and too risky with his gun, did you see that on the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Hamilton Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I don't know if any of you noticed, but the doctor's criminal history was trending on social media yesterday. May be more to this than we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Jack Sawyer said: This is what it all comes down to, submit to authority like a good little sheep or be beaten Wow Jack...what does that make me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 21 minutes ago, Sniper31 said: Wow Jack...what does that make me? I'm sorry but I don't understand. I didn't mean ant offense to anyone. Do you work for the TSA? I'm sure there might be a few good people there, just a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 53 minutes ago, Bruce Hamilton said: I don't know if any of you noticed, but the doctor's criminal history was trending on social media yesterday. May be more to this than we know. His past has nothing to do with it. At the time of the incident a persons background could not be known therefore it could happen to anyone. A persons background after the fact is completely irrelevant. It also puts United in a worse position by trying to blame a passengers background for its own shortcomings when a background has nothing to do with what happened. United's job is to deliver the service to passengers in the general public, and that includes everyone from nuns to guys who slept with prostitutes, who they are is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullfox Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 This is a perfect storm of bad policy, bad training, unusual circumstances, and a passenger who was unwilling to comply, for what ever reason. On the professional pilots forum I visit this incident has created over 650 posts. Mostly they break down in to the passengers fault for not doing as ordered, vs he paid for his ticket and was in his seat so airlines fault, vs police fault for over reacting, vs PR disaster no matter who is at fault, plus the CEO's reaction just made it worse. There is a great life lesson in FSX. Its a very complicated, and wonderfully flexible program, but like life, sometimes things happen in the program that make no sense, and we can't always figure out the cause. So we make some adjustment to the settings, hoping we are making the right adjustments, then continue flying. United needs to apologize for their CTD, make right the harmed parties, adjust policy and training, and no doubt will continue flying as a better airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper31 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 41 minutes ago, Jack Sawyer said: I'm sorry but I don't understand. I didn't mean ant offense to anyone. Do you work for the TSA? I'm sure there might be a few good people there, just a few. No harm, no foul Jack, no offense taken. And no, I do not work for the TSA. I do however work for the Govmen't as it were, and therefore represent the 'authority' that you mentioned. Nevertheless, I was just having fun with you. 2 minutes ago, Bullfox said: There is a great life lesson in FSX. Its a very complicated, and wonderfully flexible program, but like life, sometimes things happen in the program that make no sense, and we can't always figure out the cause. So we make some adjustment to the settings, hoping we are making the right adjustments, then continue flying. United needs to apologize for their CTD, make right the harmed parties, adjust policy and training, and no doubt will continue flying as a better airline. Love this! Great way to look at how this happened. Sometimes we all just need to take a knee, drink water then stand up and move out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sawyer Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I see Sniper. I have a very low opinion of most government departments except for the FAA. Not you, not at all, I just don't like the fraud, waste, & abuse. NASA is agood dept too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Kane Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 An Irishman just arrived in a new country and asked the first person "So What Sort Of Politics Do You Have Here..." The person started to explain it to him and he cut him off saying "Well Whatever That Is I Don't Like It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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