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Unified lclookup and what to expect.


Ed Correia

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1 hour ago, Ben McClintock said:

@Geezer we haven't forgotten about FTX Trees HD, we've made the appropriate adjustments to ensure they work well with the unified lclookup (including the regional tree textures).

 

Thank you for this info.  That's all I was asking.  I thought it was possible the benefit might be discontinued with the new system and I'm glad it's not.

 

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Hi, I have some complicate questions regarding the new unified lclookup. 
 

As I understand the lclookup is the table of all available lc with corresponding textures. This file had been swaped out for every region. The max number of possible lc/texture-sets was fixed until now. That was the reason, why we had some anomalies around the world with different files.

 

When you now release the unified version, will then the first entries in the table (old fixed range) be compatible with the old FSX world. I mean, will 3rd party LC addons (made for FSX) call the correct textures for example regions that are not covered by your openLC?

 

What is with 3rd party addons, that incorporated/called in the past your FSGlobal textures in their small regional LC modifications around airports. Will they be still compatible, or do they have to release a patch?

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After having watched "Shipdriver's" amazing video of Israel's Farm, I decided to reinstall FTX PNW and WA56.  These were originally uninstalled as I put FS onto an SSD and fly mainly in Britain and Europe. Wonderful scenery; made me realise what I had been missing.  After a while I had to go out and then returned to resume my European adventures,  Having patiently waited for FS to load up I realized that FTX Central was still set to NA !!     THIS is why unified lclookup is going to be such a blessing !  Can't wait.     By the way, great video Shipdriver.

 

Thanks to all at ORBX in advance

 

Pete

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On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 0:05 PM, masterhawk said:

 

When you now release the unified version, will then the first entries in the table (old fixed range) be compatible with the old FSX world. I mean, will 3rd party LC addons (made for FSX) call the correct textures for example regions that are not covered by your openLC?

 

What is with 3rd party addons, that incorporated/called in the past your FSGlobal textures in their small regional LC modifications around airports. Will they be still compatible, or do they have to release a patch?

 

Hello, I also really would like to know as I have more than tweenty other airports mixed with Orbx pacific coast offering

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OK, I don't work for ORBX.  But I've been flight simming for 3 decades now, and I was also an Instructor ("teacher") during my 5+ years in the Air Force.  I'm gonna TRY to explain all of this in a way that both TOTALLY NEW flight simulator users will understand, and also clear up some confusion for some "experienced" users too.

 

Th OVERALL subject at hand is LANDCLASS and what it DOES...and even as importantly...DOESN'T do.  Landclass files simply tell the flight simulator which "EARTH" TEXTURES to place WHERE in a given location in the simulator (they don't have anything to do with "building" textures, or "aircraft" textures, etc.  Think of them as "Earth" textures...Landclass determines where "Earth" textures are placed...and that includes "ground", "watrer", "snow", etc textures).  So let's look at how this all works with ORBX products that are "specifically" called "landclass" products, and how they work alongside other ORBX products that will also contain their OWN SPECIFIC landclass files within those specific products. 

 

Your flight simulator world is built from the bottom up.  The first layer of your world is Terrain Mesh (there is a lower layer that defines the "boundaries" of the world, but don't worry about that for now).  Terrain Mesh gives your world depth and height...valleys and mountains, etc. It contain NO Textures and NO Landclass...it just adds "elevations" to your world.  Without it, your entire world would be FLAT.  Landclass has NOTHING to do with the Terrain Mesh layer.  So don't worry about the new "Unified Landclass" update screwing up any of your Terrain Mesh.

 

The next TWO layers of your world are a COMBINATION of both TEXTURES and LANDCLASS.  They work together, and they decide which TEXTURES will be "laid on op" of the Terrains Mesh "elevations".  Let's start by building your flight sim world using the FTX GLOBAL BASE PACK product.  This a a total TEXTURE replacement for the entire world.  It replaces all of the DEFAULT textures that came with your flight sim.  But it ALSO contains improved LANDCLASS files with it, specifically designed to put those GLOBAL TEXTURES in the places ORBX wants them to be.  Here is part of the description of that from the FTX Blobal Base Pack product page:

 

"Base landclass updated to enhance Asia etc" and "Works with all 3rd party landclass products" and "Expandable with Orbx openLC packs!"

 

So, if you ONLY had FTX Global Base Pack installed, you would have all new GLOBAL TEXTURES for your sim, with improved landclass for it (to tell the sim WHERE to place those textures), but IF you wanted to, you could STILL use a third-party landclass product like Scenery Tech (or others) for specific geographic areas (like Scenery Tech Asia, etc).

 

The next "layer" you would have is a VECTOR GRAPHICS layer, like FTX GLOBAL Vector.  This improves the location and accuracy of roads, rivers, lakes, shorelines, city boundaries, etc.  Some vector graphics products come with their OWN included landclass files for "better" placement of the associated textures.  FTX GLOBAL Vector is a GLOBAL product that does this for the WHOLE world all at once.  Other third-party Vector products do it using "regional" areas of the world per product like just for Europe or North America, etc.  Which products you use is up to you.  There is a Compatibility sub-Forum in the ORBX main forum that give excellent guidance on making ORBX products work properly regardless of which Vector product you decide to use.  The "simple" solution would be to use the ORBX Vector product, as it is designed to work seemlessly with all the other ORBX products.

 

OK, let's move on.  You now install an ORBX SPECIFIC LANDCLASS product, like openLC EU (Europe).  THIS product will include MORE SPECIFIC landclass files for the EUROPE AREA as a WHOLE (it will cover ALL of Europe with MORE detailed Landclass for ALL of Europe).  THEY will be used instead of the GLOBAL landclass files included with FTX Global Base.  It's that simple.  Your "Europe" now looks better than before because the even MORE SPECIFIC TEXTURES in Europe are going to be placed better and more accurately than the FTX GLOBAL Base Pack textures.  Then you install openLC NA for (as of now as I type this) Alaska and Canada.  IT will also contain "more accurate" landclass and will improve the way Canada and Alaska looks.  Again...simple.  As long as you installed the products in the "right order" in your sim's Scenery Library", you have NO issues to deal with.

 

Now...here's where the problem USED to be.  You now install a couple "Full Fat" Orbx REGIONS, like NA Pacific Northwest and EU England.  THESE "regions" are ALL INCLUSIVE.  They contain even MORE detailed and specific Textures, Landclass, and Vector graphics IN them. If (as in this case) the regions were NOT in the SAME OVERALL geographic location (like NA or EU), you either had to select the SPECIFIC region you wanted to fly in in FTX Central (to see the BEST of that region) or select the "hybrid" mode in FTX Central to see a slightly LESS accurate display in ALL of those "full fat" regions.  Part of the problem was that EACH specific "Full Fat" region had it OWN Landclass specific files for that specific product.  That was the only way to get all the different Landclass files from all the different products to "play nice" together.  You had to use FTX Central to decide whether you wanted the "best" of a specific region, or a "hybrid" mode that let all the regions "play nice" together ALONG WITH any GLOBAL areas not covered by the specific regions.

 

The ONLY THING the new "Unified Landclass" upgrade is going to do is let ALL of the different Landclass files from ALL of the different products "play nice" together WITHOUT you having to use FTX Central to "switch regions" anymore.  You can take off from the NA region and fly all the way to the EU region without having to do ANY region switching in FTX Central.  The regions will use the appropriate landclass file and display the appropriate TEXTURES in the specific NA and EU "full fat" regions, AND the specific openLC product region areas that any "Full Fat" region isn't covering (like the rest of Europe that EU England doesn't cover in openLC EU), AND the FTX Global BASE TEXTURES everywhere else in the world that you don't have a specific "full fat" region or an openLC product for (yet).  You will get the "best" of what every ORBX product you have installed has to offer.

 

NONE OF THE ABOVE will prevent you from STILL "enabling or disabling" ANY ORBX product using your flight sim's Scenery Library or something like SimStarter.  So if you want to disable NA Southern California to fly a complex airplane into a complex airport there, you can STILL do it.  It's up to you.  As for any other third-party addon airports you may have that are located IN an ORBX product area, they should STILL WORK if you are disabling the ORBX product now (using your Scenery Library or something like SimStarter) and they still work when you do that NOW.  You aren't disabling the THIRD-PARTY airport...just the ORBX "region" where the airport is located.

 

As JV and others have said, please don't read any MORE into what the "Unified Landclass" file structure is going to do.  It is NOT going to mess up your Terrain Mesh, Vector Graphics (roads, rivers, lakes, etc), or your Autogen (buildings, trees, etc).  

 

And even if you have the "Unified Landclass" files working in your sim, you could STILL use a third-party Landclass product like Scenery Tech Asia Pacific or Africa if you wanted to (assuming you didn't like how the FTX GLOBAL Base Pack displayed it's RBX GLOBAL Base Pack textures using IT'S Landclass files for Africa or anywhere else).

 

You still have control of whatever you want to enable or disable in your Scenery Library, regardless of whether you use the Scenery Library itself to "check" or "uncheck" something, or if you use something like SimStarter with modified saved Scenery.cfg files.  The "Unified Landclass" upgrade is ONLY going to remove the long-standing headache of having to decide which "region" someone wanted to use (or "hybrid mode" to use all of them) in FTX Central in the past.  

 

(NOTE:  If I have mis-stated anything above, someone from ORBX can correct it with my sincere apology).

 

 

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ADD To My Above Post:

 

I specifically did not address the issue of ORBX AU Australia and FTX Global Vector.  There is nothing ORBX can do about that right now.  Australia was developed long ago and in a way that isn't compatible with FTX Global Vector right now.  But as has been stated already by others, Australia really doesn't NEED to be "fixed" right now.  It is a MASSIVELY LARGE "full fat" region in itself that covers an ENTIRE CONTINENT already.  As long as a user with FTX Global Vector will be able to "disable" Global Vector so someone can fly in Australia without experiencing "problems", it is not sensible for ORBX to spend the time and money required to "fix" anything about Australia.  Maybe sometime in the distant future when ORBX covers the whole world with all "full fat" regions...but not now.  If they did that now, we would have to wait a long time for additional ORBX products for areas of the world we don't have yet.

 

PS - and my first post should have said "25+ years teaching in the Air Force".  Typo, but too late to edit it.

 

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Actually, it's independent of many of the ORBX products a user has.  The primary thing it will "make easier" is if the user has multiple "full fat" regions covering DIFFERENT "continent" regions (I use the word "continent" because that appears to be how ORBX is categorizing their "full fat" regions...into "continents" like NA, EU, AU, etc).  The new "Unified Landclass" files, along with the new ORBX Libraries structure, along with the new FTX Central, would be an improvement for someone even if they only had NA Pacific Northwest and EU England installed, with no other ORBX products.  Even THEY wouldn't have to worry about "switching regions" anymore.  And that is a good thing for ORBX, as it would allow a new customer to purchase a couple "full fat" regions on different continents to see what a TOTAL ORBX overhaul of a scenery area looks like.  Which after seeing that could easily result in sales of the other "global" products.

 

I like what ORBX is doing with it.  It makes sense from a business standpoint and a "user friendly" customer support perspective for both new and long time ORBX customers.

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1 hour ago, Adam_NZ said:

Many thanks Falcon. Your time and effort in compiling this info is truly appreciated. All I have now to do is read it *slowly* B)

 

Adam

 

LOL!  If you do that you'll find some of the typos I found in it because I typed it *fastly*.  Then exceeded the 1 hour time limit to correct the ones I found after posting it.  

 

I think I accidentally created a couple new ORBX products called "RBX" Global and FTX "Blobal" Base in my first post.  And erased 20 years of my Air Force career too.  Gotta quit speed typing in the dark.  :D

 

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FalconAF said:

So, if you ONLY had FTX Global Base Pack installed, you would have all new GLOBAL TEXTURES for your sim, with improved landclass for it (to tell the sim WHERE to place those textures), but IF you wanted to, you could STILL use a third-party landclass product like Scenery Tech (or others) for specific geographic areas (like Scenery Tech Asia, etc).

 

Good post but the above isn't quite accurate.  Global has a few miscellaneous landclass benefits but it doesn't have regular landclass like Scenery Tech or OpenLC.  Iirc it corrects a glitch near London and some in Asia and maybe one or two other minor things.  FalconAF, your post makes it look like Global provides worldwide improved landclass and it doesn't.   Third party landclass is needed or the default will be used worldwide.  That's why Orbx is producing OpenLC.   

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13 hours ago, FalconAF said:

The regions will use the appropriate landclass file and display the appropriate TEXTURES in the specific NA and EU "full fat" regions, AND the specific openLC product region areas that any "Full Fat" region isn't covering (like the rest of Europe that EU England doesn't cover in openLC EU), AND the FTX Global BASE TEXTURES everywhere else in the world that you don't have a specific "full fat" region or an openLC product for (yet).  You will get the "best" of what every ORBX product you have installed has to offer.

 

More clarification.  The appropriate landclass OR not AND OpenLC will be displayed.  The sim can't display more than one landclass in the same area.  This post is pretty confusing actually.  Orbx literature explains the concepts more clearly and with pictures.

 

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Sorry for a late reply.  I went on a motorcycle trip for a few days.

 

All written communication includes the hazard of being misinterpreted.  Forum posts are no different.  I never intended to MEAN that FTX Global Base was an all-inclusive Landclass upgrade for any default flight simulator.  As I quoted from the FTX Global Base product page:

 

"Base landclass updated to enhance Asia etc" and "Works with all 3rd party landclass products" and "Expandable with Orbx openLC packs!"

 

I thought this would indicate (in my post) that Global Base included SOME updated Landclass files (like for Asia), would STILL use the default simulator Landclass files that WEREN'T updated by Global Base, and would still WORK with any other third-party landclass product the user wanted to use.

 

And yes, if I had used the word "OR" instead of "AND" in the referenced correction, it may have been clearer.  At the time I was typing it, I was already "thinking ahead" to the last sentence I was going to use... "You will get the "best" of what every ORBX product you have installed has to offer."  I'm fully aware that the flight sim can only use one Landclass in any specific area at the time.  But it is also capable of using multiple DIFFERENT Landclass products for DIFFERENT geographical location at the same time too (but only ONE Landclass for any given geographical "place" at a time).  If I wanted to, I could "override" an installed ORBX Landclass product easily by just layering a different Landclass product higher up in my Scenery Library (but the results might not be good or what I expected).  This is exactly what happens with things like third-party payware airports that someone puts in their Scenery Library above the ORBX products.  Any included Landclass for the airport included with the airport product will override the ORBX landclass below it in the Scenery Library for the immediate airport area.  The airport Landclass would be at a higher priority in the Scenery Library than the ORBX product Landclass was.

 

Thanks for the clarifications made.  Hazards of written communication.

 

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And for those coming in late for the film, FalconAF will be holding an ORBX Symposium to discuss this further.  Drinks and light fair will be served.

 

ORBX does a great job documenting everything that they put out.  Reading the guides that accompany the software is always great start.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Brooks said:

I just downloaded and installed the new OrbxLibs and it did not do anything different.  No migration screen came up to guide me.  Has anyone else had any issues.

 

Thanks.

Hi Tom,

 

You also need to download the FTX Central v2.1 update too (it should automatically prompt you for this when you start FTX Central).

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I opened FTX Central and it got the update and installed it. I then installed the library update. Nothing, so I re-opened FTX central and got the migration thing as described. But my FTX central hasn't changed from pre the updates.

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12 minutes ago, Tom Brooks said:

Hey Ben, it's 11:30 at night and have been up since 5:10 AM and I did not read the whole thing from Ed about the two files.  Part A done and where to get the FTX Central.  Thanks

Hi Tom,

 

If you already have FTX Central v2 installed, the next time you start FTX Central there should be a green bar at the top saying an update is available.

 

If you do not have FTX Central v2 already installed, you can download it from here: http://fullterrain.com/updates/ftxcentral/ftxcentral2_setup.exe (the installer will automatically download the latest version).

 

12 minutes ago, Kiwiviator said:

I opened FTX Central and it got the update and installed it. I then installed the library update. Nothing, so I re-opened FTX central and got the migration thing as described. But my FTX central hasn't changed from pre the updates.

2 minutes ago, joe d park said:

FTX central looks the same 

Hi @Kiwiviator and @joe d park,

 

Could you please try re-starting FTX Central again? It should look the same as before, except without the "apply group" button.

 

If restarting FTX Central doesn't fix the problem, could you please take a screenshot of what your FTX Central looks like and post it here?

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3 minutes ago, jjaycee1 said:

With no Apply required and no Hybrid, does this mean that the Full Fat regions will be displayed in their totally (detail wise) when entering them from a Global area?

Yes, this is correct :). It's effectively Global+Hybrid, but without the disadvantages

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On 5/14/2016 at 11:27 AM, John Venema said:

The Vector 1.4 Configuration Panel has been updated to allow you to disable Vector for Australia.

Sorry if I missed something, but where is the 1.4 CP? I only have 1.35 version of Vector.

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Well done, ORBX!

 

I got the [dreaded] update prompt today on firing up FTX Central. I followed the prompts  - which I thought were both clear and helpful. Goodness knows how complex all the behind-the-scenes changes were, but it all went smoothly.

 

So ... all good here ... my new FTX Central no longer has the "Apply" prompt and the individual "Configure" options appear to work fine. P3Dv3.3 started up as usual.

 

My default flight starts at NZAR (Adrmore) NZ - and I just teleported to my other "home" - Kemble, UK - direct from P3D in the same session. All pretty seamless.

 

I'd say a job well done! Please give credit to all concerned B)

 

Adam.

 

P.S. I'm presuming the free AI traffic packages reconfigure themselves automatically <?>. It does look like it's all working OK.

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Well, I've just updated FTX Central.  That went alright but then it had a button to download and update the latest library.

 

I have what passes for ultra speed broadband in England (37mbs) but the library update is creeping along and estimating the time will be anything between 3 hours and 2 days!

 

Why so slow?

 

John

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24 minutes ago, zazaboeing said:

Sorry if I missed something, but where is the 1.4 CP? I only have 1.35 version of Vector.

Vector 1.4 hasn't been released yet :)

 

8 minutes ago, JohnY said:

I have what passes for ultra speed broadband in England (37mbs) but the library update is creeping along and estimating the time will be anything between 3 hours and 2 days!

 

Why so slow?

The time that FTX Central estimates isn't 100% accurate, usually it will speed up when it's downloading the larger files that are in the update. 

 

However, you can download the full .zip from our website if you'd like to download and install it without using FTX Central: http://cloud.orbxsystems.com/orbxfreeware/libraries/combined/FTXORBXLIBS_160528.zip

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15 minutes ago, JohnY said:

Well, I've just updated FTX Central.  That went alright but then it had a button to download and update the latest library.

 

I have what passes for ultra speed broadband in England (37mbs) but the library update is creeping along and estimating the time will be anything between 3 hours and 2 days!

 

Why so slow?

 

John

Good thing I read about the update when I did.  it's 5:30am here and it's craaaawwwwllling along with the update.  Guess I'll have to do some housework today. :(

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Yes, well, actually its now finished.  Talk about fits and starts though.  Updating the library through FTX Central was slower than it would have been had I downloaded it and then installed it as normal.

Still.  It's done so now, well, this afternoon, I'm going flying.

 

Toodle-ooh.

 

John

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