announcement Unified lclookup and what to expect.

[cabnz]

I'm really looking forward to this update - Thank you guys for doing this

[Jeff974]

very good news, thanks orbx for enhancing your customer experience

[bvdboomen]

I have some of the ORBX airport BGL files turned OFF (esp. CVX) to match third party airports into the ORBX scenery.

Will they remain OFF when they migrate into the new system?

[Chrjs]

Thanks for the update. But please keep an option to (easily) temporarily disable regions (maybe all regions if there is only one left now, but keep eg airports and LC). For example yesterday, we fly into KSFO from EGLL and both KSFO and NCA would just have cost too many frames, so I disabled NCA for that flight. And no, turning down LOD or details is no option for me. For me it's quite simple. VFR = FTX (regions) yeah, IFR = FTX no (besides Global, LC and the trees).

[pmb]

24 minutes ago, Chrjs said:

Thanks for the update. But please keep an option to (easily) temporarily disable regions (maybe all regions if there is only one left now, but keep eg airports and LC). 

And this is again where SimStarter comes in which can do this for you. (Hope this doesen't distract from the topic once more, Ed.)

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Chrjs]

3 minutes ago, pmb said:

And this is again where SimStarter comes in which can do this for you. (Hope this doesen't distract from the topic once more, Ed.)

 

Kind regards, Michael

Thanks, I know about Simstarter, but i don'T know how the new structure will be implemented, so I hope this still works.

[pmb]

7 hours ago, Geezer said:

 

May I ask why this is necessary.  If the OZ region is higher in the scenery library than Vector, wouldn't OZ be used and blank out Vector automatically?  Is OZ different from other regions in this regard?

I am not sure if this can be done. Obviously, we're speaking on mesh data here (those from Vector and those from OZ' Holger Mesh). If I am right, mesh data are active independent on their level in the scenery library, the simulator just selects those with the highest resolution.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[pmb]

8 minutes ago, Chrjs said:

Thanks, I know about Simstarter, but i don'T know how the new structure will be implemented, so I hope this still works.

I'm a SimStarter beta tester and contacted the author when Ed's announcement was made, so he's at least aware what to expect. I'm with you to hope this will work painless.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Mickey]

Great news on this update. Thanks for your hard work. To throw my thoughts into this topic. Maybe some of you ORBX guys could give me a short feedback about mthe following procedure after the update of FTX Central. 

 

 I´d like to add that i am a user of the Simstarter as well. I use the payware and the freeware version. In conjunction with the Simstarter i use the Scenery Config Editor v1.7. With this tool i make my own custom scenery.cfg´s Lets say i want to fly ORBX AU+Airports+OZx+FlyTampas YSSY (i named this scenery.cfg to 03_FTX AU.cfg) i will have only these sceneries in the cfg. No other sceneries are inside it. I have a master scenery.cfg which contains all my sceneries. From this i edit all the other different cfg´s. Now Simstarter kicks in with its ability to load custom scenery.cfg´s. It loads for ex. my custom cfg, 03_FTX AU.cfg, and befor the sim starts the starter will overwrite the old scenery.cfg with my custom .cfg. Result is a little faster loading time.

 

Now what i also do is to fly with regions (ex NorCal) to OFF (with the procedure above the region entries are NOT present inside the cfg) but will leave FTX Global+Vector+LC ON. Would that scew things up. Currently i have ni problems at all with this.

 

Thanks in advance and lookin forward to th update as well as the complete openLC US

 

PS: I run P3Dv3.x and the Scenery Config Tool supports all 4 Sim platforms

[longrangecruise]

As many before me mentioned I need to be able to switch regions on or off and am NOT pleased with this update.

I also normally go with times and keep my software updated. Not updating and losing support is not an option!

 

Lets look at an example: Let's say I like to fly into Flightbeam KSFO with a PMDG 777. It is absolutely mandatory to turn NCA off, otherwise one ends up with a stuttery experience with very low frames.

 

Can the regions be selected on and off via SceneryConfigEditor or the in-sim scenery menu at least?

 

Please come up with a solution here.

 

Perry

[Ed Correia]

1 minute ago, longrangecruise said:

As many before me mentioned I need to be able to switch regions on or off and am NOT pleased with this update.

I also normally go with times and keep my software updated. Not updating and losing support is not an option!

 

Lets look at an example: Let's say I like to fly into Flightbeam KSFO with a PMDG 777. It is absolutely mandatory to turn NCA off, otherwise one ends up with a stuttery experience with very low frames.

 

Pleas come up with a solution here.

 

Perry

Sorry but it is going to happen.

 

This has been one of the most sought after changes with our customers and removes the need for switching and applying a region.

 

If you want to disable a region, untick it in your scenery library config before flying or use something like Simstarter.

[Mickey]

Just now, Ed Correia said:

Sorry but it is going to happen.

 

This has been one of the most sought after changes with our customers and removes the need for switching and applying a region.

 

If you want to disable a region, untick it in your scenery library config before flying or use something like Simstarter.

 

Thank you Ed for clarification on this. I also answered my question @post 50.

[pmb]

I have to fully agree to Ed. Region switching has been an obscure obstacle for years, and I am sure the majority of users highly welcome the move. And yes, there are tools for switching sceneries on and off, SimStarter has already been mentiond, besides there are also SimLauncher, and SceneryConfigEditor can be configured with corresponding profiles as well.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Ed Correia]

Just now, pmb said:

I have to fully agree to Ed. Region switching has been an obscure obstacle for years, and I am sure the majority of users highly welcome the move. And yes, there are tools for switching sceneries on and off, SimStarter has already been mentiond, besides there are also SimLauncher, and SceneryConfigEditor can be configured with corresponding profiles as well.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Thank you Michael.

[longrangecruise]

Thanks Ed,

 

I can understand that switching regions is complicated for some and the introduction of this new system being a progress.

 

I am happy as long as I am still able to deselect some regions, which was clarified by you.

 

Perry

 

[Kulbit]

the new system will involve changes in the point / order of insertion of Orbx layer in the cfg file?

[Geezer]

3 hours ago, pmb said:

I am not sure if this can be done. Obviously, we're speaking on mesh data here (those from Vector and those from OZ' Holger Mesh). If I am right, mesh data are active independent on their level in the scenery library, the simulator just selects those with the highest resolution.

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

I don't see where mesh has anything to do with this.   We're talking about an exclude.  Orbx does this for ALL their other products but is unable to do it for Australia?  Doesn't make any sense at all.  I REALLY like the one region concept and am 100% behind this change.  Really, it's one of the reasons I finally purchased all the regions.  Now I'm finding out it works everywhere in the entire world except Australia.  Weird.   

[John Dow]

9 hours ago, Geezer said:

I guess I don't understand.  How difficult would it be to make an exclude for the entire area and issue a patch?  I'll wait for someone to explain that it can't be done for some reason or that it would take 97 hours to do.  Otherwise, I have no doubt it would already be there.

 

Different products, different scenery attributes, different treatments.  Vector is not just another region.  It's a different level of scenery data.  

 

The Vector switch should act as an exclude anyway, even though it's not actually an exclude.  Some people may choose to run Vector, particularly if they are not running the AU scenery.

 

The fact is Vector is not 100% compatible with the AU scenery, and it would require a major rework of the basic building blocks that the scenery was built on, and the AU data set already provides substantial vector-type improvements to roads, features and coastlines etc.  The decision to offer an option to simply disable Vector for the region due to incompatibilities is in my opinion the best solution.

[DesertPilot]

Regarding the AU Vector switch, when it is enabled, does it disable Vector only for AU but leave Vector fully enabled for the rest of the world? 

[Mickey]

1 minute ago, DesertPilot said:

Regarding the AU Vector switch, when it is enabled, does it disable Vector only for AU but leave Vector fully enabled for the rest of the world? 

 

If that would be the case then you would not need a switch. That is how i understand the whole AU Vector story.

[Geezer]

49 minutes ago, John Dow said:

 

Different products, different scenery attributes, different treatments.  Vector is not just another region.  It's a different level of scenery data.  

 

The Vector switch should act as an exclude anyway, even though it's not actually an exclude.  Some people may choose to run Vector, particularly if they are not running the AU scenery.

 

The fact is Vector is not 100% compatible with the AU scenery, and it would require a major rework of the basic building blocks that the scenery was built on, and the AU data set already provides substantial vector-type improvements to roads, features and coastlines etc.  The decision to offer an option to simply disable Vector for the region due to incompatibilities is in my opinion the best solution.

 

Thank you for replying.  Maybe I'm dense but I don't see how you answered my question.  

 

Vector is worldwide.  Other than Australia, there are 15 region areas.  All 15 areas have vector attributes that I assume do not match the Vector product exactly.  Yet there's no switch for any of those 15 areas, only Australia.  Those 15 areas obviously have an exclude that  prevents Vector from interfering with their vector attributes.  So, why can't there be a similar exclude for Australia?  An exclude is just an area file that blocks Vector from that area.  What is so different about Australia that it can't be done?

[gsumner]

I love auto !

 

More flying and less tinkering with settings. Thankyou for doing this guys !

 

Graham

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi Geezer,

 

Quote

So, why can't there be a similar exclude for Australia?  An exclude is just an area file that blocks Vector from that area.  What is so different about Australia that it can't be done?

 

the difference is that all the FTX Regions other than Australia replace the default landscape with a complete set of more detailed and accurate features of their own. Thus, a blanket exclude removes all underlying features, default or Vector. FTX AU is not a complete replacement meaning a blanket exclude would leave you with no landscape features at all in some places, hardly a solution.

 

Therefore, the current best option is for Vector to deactivate its Australia coverage for users that also have FTX Australia installed because FTX AU was made to work with the default landscape, long before Vector was released.

 

Last but not least it's perhaps easy to overlook that FTX AU is about 15 times larger than the largest North American region and thus any re-working of FTX AU would indeed take more than just a few hours.

 

In any case the interaction between FTX AU and Vector has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

Cheers, Holger

[Geezer]

Ah, now I understand.  Leave it to you, Holger, to explain the situation properly.  I'll just use the switch even if it will bother my ocd somewhat.  Too bad.  Sorry if it's off topic in this thread.  I replied to a post by JV so I thought it was ok.

[jmorvay1971]

Ok, so I have read through this thread, weeding out facts from everything else, but one thing puzzles me, if all of the installed regions,airports remain active, how do they get loaded properly when you start your sim.  For instance, if I picked out YCBS as my starting airport in my sim (all the while ORBX YCBS and Australia SP4 are present and installed), what will trigger my sim to load those assets, unless I am still missing the point of this new LClookup.bgl?  Would this be the primary file that the sim goes to to allow it to find the assets and allow them to load?

 

If my assumption is correct, this is pure genius.

[John Venema]

You guys are reading too much into this. If you have AUSP4 and YBCS and load a flight there, the sim will load only the assets based on your LOD settings. Nothing changes from before, so having FTX regions in other parts of the world won't make one iota of difference at YBCS - you just don't need to put thought into switching worldwide areas in FTX Central anymore 

 

Don't make a simple solution into a complex one by overthinking it

[jmorvay1971]

59 minutes ago, John Venema said:

You guys are reading too much into this. If you have AUSP4 and YBCS and load a flight there, the sim will load only the assets based on your LOD settings. Nothing changes from before, so having FTX regions in other parts of the world won't make one iota of difference at YBCS - you just don't need to put thought into switching worldwide areas in FTX Central anymore 

 

Don't make a simple solution into a complex one by overthinking it

Sorry John but it didn't really answer my question.  With regards to the LCLookup.bgl, is this what helps control what loads and what doesn't?  If it's a trade secret, then I understand.  Please don't condemn someone for trying to understand what is going on, especially since this is a departure from how we've worked with ORBX products in the past.

[DesertPilot]

Might help to reread JV's initial announcement of the unified lclookup file here.

 

The LCLookup.bgl files have existed for a good while with Orbx sceneries. Currently, there are five separate lclookup.bgl files, one for each of (1) Global Base, (2) Global Hybrid, (3) North America, (4) Europe, and (5) Oceania. Using "Apply Region" in FTX Central causes the applicable lclookup.bgl file (and the corresponding autogen spb files) to become active.

 

The unified lclookup.bgl combines all five of those separate files into one file (and a similar treatment for the autogen spb files, I think).  So we now will have one single lclookup.bgl file that will support all Orbx sceneries, replacing the former five separate lclookup files. Aside of that, as JV just indicated, no changes to how the simulator loads the various sceneries, I believe.

 

[Sundog]

I've been waiting a long time for this news. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Ben McClintock]

4 hours ago, jmorvay1971 said:

With regards to the LCLookup.bgl, is this what helps control what loads and what doesn't?

Hi Jim,

 

I believe this is done during the simulator's launch process. When it's "generating scenery indexes", it's scanning through all your scenery files and sorting them into their geographic locations.

 

Then, when you're near YBCS, it just needs to find that location in the scenery indexes, and load all the files that it points to.

[rockliffe]

Great stuff!

 

[jmorvay1971]

4 hours ago, Ben McClintock said:

Hi Jim,

 

I believe this is done during the simulator's launch process. When it's "generating scenery indexes", it's scanning through all your scenery files and sorting them into their geographic locations.

 

Then, when you're near YBCS, it just needs to find that location in the scenery indexes, and load all the files that it points to.

Got it Ben, thanks.

[skywreck]

Once this new system is implemented will this mean that all Orbx sceneries installed on the PC will have entries added to the scenery.cfg? If so this could represent a huge load into the sim and affect performance and VAS. Could you clarify this?

 

Thanks and kind regards

[Ben McClintock]

16 minutes ago, skywreck said:

Once this new system is implemented will this mean that all Orbx sceneries installed on the PC will have entries added to the scenery.cfg? If so this could represent a huge load into the sim and affect performance and VAS. Could you clarify this?

Hi Joaquin,

 

This happens already, the new system does not change how items are added to scenery.cfg. However, you can still uncheck any regions/airports you do not wish to load in the scenery library menu of your simulator.

[skywreck]

Thanks for your reply. Currently I always remove the areas I won't be flying over, except for Global, Vector and LCs. Good to know I will still be able to do the same without affecting the new system.

 

Regards

[Spacey]

Hi JV,

 

l am not tech Savvy, but l use SimStarter to lighten the load when flying over large areas which cover multiple airports. In P3D, not an issue as P3D removes stuff once passed. I had always understood FSX hangs onto them, thus VAS increases leading to OMMs.  And I still use FSX.

 

I call  myself a newbie as l do struggle with a lot of computer jargon, and this topic seems to be one where a few of us are not sure of the effects this wil have.  I am happy to say it is my fault not understanding it properly in regards to its other effects, and that you are putting it across as simply as you can, but a few of us are struggling, even those who l look up to for advise..  And I understand this is becoming very frustrating for you and the team.

 

The main issue seems to be how this will affect SimStarter and/or SceneryConfig Editor., and personally it is over my head or l am failing to get the message of how it works and how it will affect these two programs.  I accept this is all my fault. But l don't think l am alone as the topic is going around in circles.

 

Could l please ask that just before it's released, could you or someone find time do a short introductory video of the change, just going through how it works, and maybe address the issues raised in this topic, including effects on SimStarter and SceneryConfig Editor issues, (and solutions if there is an issue), just so we can all get our head around it.  I think this would be most helpful, esp if the program can be demonstrated on the video. I understand you and the team are really busy, but this sounds like a great achievement in what has been done by Orbx, but some of us are just struggling a bit, and sometimes with something like this, a video is far easier to explain it than emails or in a forum.

 

Thanks for any consideration You can give to this video concept.

 

Love  Orbx to dearh

Spacey

 

 

 

PS. is it possible to have maybe a short monthly or even bi monthly blog on Orbx, its products, and maybe tips for Newbies like me who are not tech savvy, but would love to learn more about the products and how to best utilise them or set them up. Just a thought.

[shortspecialbus]

i'm not from ORBX but I think I can answer this for you - it won't affect SimStarter and/or SceneryConfig Editor.  Those will work as they always have, with the one exception that you won't have to either use them to change the region, or change the region in FTX Central yourself.

 

Impact for areas that you aren't going to be flying in will not be for the worse, as it won't affect anything.  

 

If you want to create an analog for "disabling" regions, you should be able to do that by disabling the entries in the scenery.cfg file.

 

Let's make up a quick scenario here.  Pretend you own the following products:

FTX Global + Vector

FTX Southern California

FTX Northern California

FTX England

FTX Wales

FTX Australia.

FTX YMML

 

Let's pretend you are going to do a flight in the PMDG 777 from YMML to KSFO.  You're (quite reasonably) worried about VAS when you're approaching KSFO, so you want to "disable" FTX SoCal (or northern cal, I forget which gets that spot.)  Previously, you'd either use FTX Global or just the FTX Australia region, maybe involving a Hybrid mode or something.

 

The new method with SimStarter would be to have it modify the scenery.cfg file to disable the FTX NA SoCal and/or Northern California areas.  You could also have it disable England and Wales if you really wanted, although not a lot of reason to do that I don't think.  But you could.

 

The end result here is effectively the same as previous, except you don't have the region change step.

 

Let's look at a different flight, same products.

 

Pretend you want to fly from KLAX to EGLL, but you're doing it in the trike (you have a lot of time and unlimited fuel - I don't judge how you sim, ok?) so you're not worried about VAS.  Simply have SimStarter leave all the entries in scenery.cfg enabled, and you'll be able to fly from KLAX to EGLL getting the FTX regions in the applicable areas and FTX Global everywhere else.

 

Does that help clear things up a bit?  ORBX people - if I'm wrong on this, please correct me, but I think maybe you've been somewhat misunderstanding questions or (in most cases here, actually) your answers aren't being understood, so I'm trying to word it in a different way.

 

* Note - I am ignoring any weird conflicts with FTX Global and FTX AU for this example.  I also don't use SimStarter so I'm guessing that it can load scenery.cfg profiles with various parts enabled or disabled, based on what I'm reading in here.  If I'm wrong on that, let me know and I'll amend the post and rewrite it to make sense.

 

-stefan

 

Edit: I *do* use SceneryConfigEditor and I have various region groups set up, and I'll continue to disable areas I'm not flying in, just because.  That won't change.  I just now won't also have to screw around in FTX Central to change region there - I can solely do it in SceneryConfigEditor.

[Mikelab6]

Come on guys !  Don't overthink a simple thing !

 

The new FTX central is not a sim starter. The only new thing it will do (or almost), is to avoid all of us to apply a region before starting a flight. That's it !!

 

If you want to disable some scenery before a flight, it's up to you.  Just do it as before with your SimStarter app. or anything else... That's it !!   Relax and go flying...

 

Mike

[Ben McClintock]

2 hours ago, Spacey said:

The main issue seems to be how this will affect SimStarter and/or SceneryConfig Editor., and personally it is over my head or l am failing to get the message of how it works and how it will affect these two programs.  I accept this is all my fault. But l don't think l am alone as the topic is going around in circles.

@shortspecialbus is 100% correct. FTX Central v2.1 doesn't interact with SimStarter nor SCE in a different way at all. In fact, the code that modifies the scenery.cfg has not been changed since the start of 2014 (way back in FTX Central v1).

[Spacey]

Thanks Shortspecialbus,

 

Cleared it it up really well. It now makes sense. The questions and answers did not seem to line up and so so was really getting confused.  Sometimes just need someone to stand back a bit to give the answers to questions we are not probably asking in the way we are hoping they would be taken. 

 

The hange now sounds really good.

 

 Thanks again

Spacey